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Beaviz81 wrote: What an irony you are speaking about not taking things so seriously Veteran Sergeant, when you basically think anyone saying anything about the Ultramarines as a guy committing a personal attack on you.
lolwut? Okay, well that never happens.
Plus it's Angron, Angryon seems like a really childish way to spell that name.
It's not childish. I'm deliberately highlighting the fact that he's not a serious character. He was named Angron because he was angry. They could have chosen any other name for him, but they didn't. He's a two dimensional cardstock villain, and I have fun pointing that out.
Look, I know you don't like that I poke fun of your irrational hatred of the Ultramarines because you identify them with wacky European soccer fans. So I get why you made this post trying to undercut my credibility. It's okay. We know that you irrationally hate a specific color of fictional soldiers because they have an unofficial abbreviated nickname given to them in casual discussion by fans on the Internet that shares its name with a group of European soccer fans who have a radical subgroup that is sometimes racist. I mean, if I were you, and I kept pointing out how you irrationally hate the Ultramarines who are not called the Ultras, because there are real world soccer fans who are called the Ultras who are sometimes racist, I'd hate me too. I mean, that's completely silly and it makes you look very foolish.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: Yeah, what exactly was the Emperor going to use to destroy his Legions he'd created to be more powerful than anything else in the galaxy?
Considering he had the raw psychic might to casually force an entire Legion (Word Bearers) to kneel, and then forced them all entirely to the ground, I think he could manage to take out single Legions if he so desired to.
Not that the Primarchs would just sort of sit there and watch the Emperor kill their sons, lol.
I have a lot of problems with that scene, but I don't think he forced the entire legion to kneel. He just forced Lorgar to kneel, and the legion imitated the behavior.
If he could neutralize entire Legions with his mind, it would have made the Battle of Terra a cakewalk. "Sir, World Eaters at the walls!" "Don't worry. I got this."
Or, we've just discovered another proof to my pudding that this was never a story that was supposed to be told in this kind of detail, lol.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/13 20:03:26
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
I don't hate the Ultramarines, I merely dislike them and maybe I detest some of their more die-hard fans, but that's not hatred. Plus they are awfully good for puns.
As for me linking them. Well to be frank, the engraved U can at one point spell the doom of them and GW, due to laws, and the Ultramarines (note I'm abstaining just for you from bastardizing them into Ultras). With the laws I fear one day EU can outlaw the use of Ultra at any point, and Ultra being a word commonly linked to something negative, like Marko described how that engraved U showed up everywhere as tagging in his country. And they are both the strength and weakness of GW. At one point they are the major draws for wh40k, but they also carry with them a hefty baggage with that name, something to think about, and there are far more football-fans than fans of wh40k.
As for their general characteristics, they were basically the most flexible chapter, a sort of jack of all trades, a 7/10 in every aspect of everything, but that average thingy meant greatness when it combined over the various battlefields, so sure they can do everything asked of them, but not as good as the specialists.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/13 20:49:21
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Beaviz81 wrote: I don't hate the Ultramarines, I merely dislike them and maybe I detest some of their more die-hard fans, but that's not hatred. Plus they are awfully good for puns.
As for me linking them. Well to be frank, the engraved U can at one point spell the doom of them and GW, due to laws, and the Ultramarines (note I'm abstaining just for you from bastardizing them into Ultras). With the laws I fear one day EU can outlaw the use of Ultra at any point, and Ultra being a word commonly linked to something negative, like Marko described how that engraved U showed up everywhere as tagging in his country. And they are both the strength and weakness of GW. At one point they are the major draws for wh40k, but they also carry with them a hefty baggage with that name, something to think about, and there are far more football-fans than fans of wh40k.
As for their general characteristics, they were basically the most flexible chapter, a sort of jack of all trades, a 7/10 in every aspect of everything, but that average thingy meant greatness when it combined over the various battlefields, so sure they can do everything asked of them, but not as good as the specialists.
Honestly, I've never even heard of the Ultras you're talking about and I'm a soccer fan. I can imagine that a great many 40k players care very little for the shenanigans of a bunch of dickbags in dirty jerseys. I mean, how are they going to change Ultramarine blue? We sell that color at Lowes for Khorne's sake.
It'd been worth him doing it, just so I could've caught him doing it.
Same here, I have never heard of them as well. The color and the Ultra U are in common use for a great many things. Ever the term Ultra is not just limited to 40k or whatever group you are talking about. Its really damned hard to outlaw letters man and the Ultra U is a letter, a Greek one.
Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings!
Beaviz81 wrote: I don't hate the Ultramarines, I merely dislike them and maybe I detest some of their more die-hard fans, but that's not hatred. Plus they are awfully good for puns.
As for me linking them. Well to be frank, the engraved U can at one point spell the doom of them and GW, due to laws, and the Ultramarines (note I'm abstaining just for you from bastardizing them into Ultras). With the laws I fear one day EU can outlaw the use of Ultra at any point, and Ultra being a word commonly linked to something negative, like Marko described how that engraved U showed up everywhere as tagging in his country. And they are both the strength and weakness of GW. At one point they are the major draws for wh40k, but they also carry with them a hefty baggage with that name, something to think about, and there are far more football-fans than fans of wh40k.
As for their general characteristics, they were basically the most flexible chapter, a sort of jack of all trades, a 7/10 in every aspect of everything, but that average thingy meant greatness when it combined over the various battlefields, so sure they can do everything asked of them, but not as good as the specialists.
Honestly, I've never even heard of the Ultras you're talking about and I'm a soccer fan. I can imagine that a great many 40k players care very little for the shenanigans of a bunch of dickbags in dirty jerseys. I mean, how are they going to change Ultramarine blue? We sell that color at Lowes for Khorne's sake.
First it's football ( you know kicking ball with your foot ) calling it soccer is well...wussy in our european eyes...
Second "football" is very connected with political stance so it isn't just shenanigans...
Also you don't know jack about extremist iconography in Europe because you live in USA so I'm not too suprised...
For example if one chapter used "swastika" as their symbol, what do you think reaction would be?
In India - great, in America hmmm...
My point is simple - man has every right if he doesn't like something which reminds him on gak...simple
Like I said - 40k is a game with plasitc soldiers, but some things are just poking your eyes...I do understand if somebody has abjection or doesn't like some things which reminds him on something bad...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/14 03:24:43
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
It sounds like the dumbest gak I've ever heard, personally.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Veteran Sergeant wrote: I have a lot of problems with that scene, but I don't think he forced the entire legion to kneel. He just forced Lorgar to kneel, and the legion imitated the behavior.
If he could neutralize entire Legions with his mind, it would have made the Battle of Terra a cakewalk. "Sir, World Eaters at the walls!" "Don't worry. I got this."
Or, we've just discovered another proof to my pudding that this was never a story that was supposed to be told in this kind of detail, lol.
Nah, Lorgar kneeled after his legion did, and the Emperor forced them to do so.
Spoiler:
"‘It’s…’ Xaphen stammered. ‘It’s the…’
‘I know who it is,’ Argel Tal exhaled the words through
clenched teeth. And that’s when the voice hit him, hit them all, in
a wave of invisible force.
+Kneel+ it whispered with the power of a hammer to the forehead.
There was no resisting. Muscles acted instantly, no matter
that many hearts fought not to obey. Argel Tal was one of them.
This was not fealty, nor worship, nor service. This was slavery,
and his instincts rebelled at the enforced devotion even as he
obeyed it.
One hundred thousand Word Bearers kneeled in the dust of the
perfect city, rendered prone by Imperial decree.
A Legion was on its knees.
LORGAR LOOKED OVER his shoulder, taking in the seascape of his
kneeling warriors. Fire flickered in his eyes when he returned his
gaze to the Emperor.
‘Father—’ Lorgar began, but the man shook his head.
‘Kneel,’ he said. His timeless face was framed by dark hair the
same colour as Lorgar’s facial stubble; like father, like son.
‘What?’ the primarch asked. He looked past the Emperor to
Guilliman, straight-backed and proud. When he returned his
gaze to his father, he wiped his eyes with his soft fingertips, as if
to clear some lingering phantasm. ‘Father?’
‘Kneel, Lorgar.’"
Then later...
"His first instincts were fading now, replaced by reason and the
comfort of faith. It was only right to kneel before the God-
Emperor. He willed his hearts to slow, despite the implied insult
of his deity impelling him to abase himself."
"+LORGAR+
The voice came with a wall of pressure now, dense and all too
tactile. It pounded into Argel Tal like a miasma of engine wash,
heating his armour and throwing him to the ground. Around
him, he could see his brothers sent sprawling, their armour skidding
across the dust."
"THE SEVENTH CAPTAIN hauled himself back to his feet, stumbling
once and righting himself before his armour’s stabilisers
needed to compensate. He was one of the first Word Bearers to
rise. The others still struggled, shivering on hands and knees, or
were locked in muscle spasms, their twitching limbs disturbing
the dust."
He could neutralize Legions with his mind, sure. A Primarch? Not so easily. Regardless, he was sort of busy, you know, keeping the infinite armies of Chaos from flooding the materium through the gaping hole Magnus tore in the Webway. Also, there were at least three very powerful psykers on the side of the traitors as well, Lorgar, Magnus, and a Chaos-pumped Horus.
And yeah, of course the Heresy lulzily contradicts itself. Kor Phaeron still somehow being alive, when he has been in the presence of both the Emperor and Magnus the Red, is a mystery for the ages.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/14 07:09:19
IIRC in Know No Fear that Guilliman states that once the Great Crusade is over his Warriors would become Governors of the worlds they've conquered.
Chapter Master of Vigilia Mortis www.battle-brothers.net ------
[b]Eternal Crusade Forum
Project: Thinking of creating HH 1st Company Imperial Fist Templars
Manchu wrote: He definitely had plans for Magnus -- he wanted to put him on the Golden Throne ... and I don't mean, make him the new Emperor.
The corpse on the golden throne was the Emperor in the current timeline. Chaos just showed it to Magnus with the wrong caption under it. Surprise Daemons lie.
The Primarchs were not going to get tossed after the Great Crusade. The legions maybe... Probably.
However the Primarch had estates built inside the Imperial Palace for after the Crusade. As seen in Deliverance Lost. The important thing to note is that there are 20 of them not 18 (2 gone) and not 9 (9 went to Chaos). Which shows that the Big E had a place in his home for his sons.
Um, Magnus saw a vision of himself on the throne in the Emperor's own mind. Those estates were probably built before the Primarch capsules were even lost. I'm sure he intended to raise and educate them himself, so he could have 20 Guillimans, rather than just one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/14 16:10:32
Yet, golden throne "living battery" doesn't seem to be "caring father thingy" for one of his gifted sons...
The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always."
-- First Captain Sevatar, when asked why the Night Lords aren't the Emperor's sanction force against other Legions.
Hahahaha, I can remember the laugh-riot I had over that theory.
1. First I will feed you the warp and make you an addict.
2. You will disappoint me and I will have to punish you.
3. When I'm done punishing you, and your brain is fried I will use you as a living battery.
Freely quoted from DarthMarko in an earlier thread. Damn that paints Empy in a disturbing light.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
^ LOL But that's @Manchu's theory IIRC -we just quoted him...
That deamon in "TS" teases Magnus about that...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/14 16:27:45
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
It seems from reading the replies and reflecting on what we know - yes the whole in depth black library thing was never intentional and is trying to plug the gaps as it goes. eg Lion el johnson no longer being a traitor (much to my chagrin, because that was a cool twist).
But from what we know, IMHO once the emperor saw that the chaos gods were onto his plans eg stealing the primarchs infront of him. He was forced to do something he didnt want to do eg make the space marine legions to find the sons.
I think the Grey Knights were what the space marines were meant to be in the emperors original plan, albeit lead by the primarchs. That way he would avoid the primarchs being more loyal to their sons than to their father. Additionally if the grey knights were from the emperors genetic material then they would ahve no link to the primarchs, but to the emperor as father. Making loyalty more assured.
The emperor knew the instant the the primarchs were taken that the heresy was going to occur, he just didn't know which ones would rebel and which would remain loyal. The wolves I think were his solution to this problem.
Additionally, the emperor wanted to primarchs to live, but didnt care about their legions. How to seperate the primarchs from their legions - dont know how to solve that one though. But from the BS it is clear that the primarchs knew of and some had witnessed the destruction of the other two primarchs and their legions by the emperor and Leman Russ.
IMHO the emperor never wanted the SM, he wanted the grey knights, and for them to be lead by the primarchs. Given Chaos intervention, he was forced to make SM and the SW in particular.
Following the Heresy though or the end of the great crusade... The surviving legions... those that were suitable eg ultramarine and salamanders could be planetary governors (imperial fists were too fundamentalist to think the crusade would ever end, but also probably more realistic). Those that were not suitable eg World eaters could be used against the aliens eg orks until there were no orks left.
Or perhaps the emperor didnt really try hard as some have said and nature would take its course... or He would throw the legions against what is basically half a galaxy full of orks until they were all dead and the primarchs were forced to use grey knights?
Once the heresy occured the Grey knights function was modified to fight pure chaos?
2nd edition: Blood Angels
3rd edition: Imperial Guard
4th edition: Iron Warriors
5th edition: Death Guard
6th & 7th edition: taking a break - power creeep (lethality of game) became too hot to handle
DarthMarko wrote:First it's football ( you know kicking ball with your foot ) calling it soccer is well...wussy in our european eyes...
Sorry, the US makes the rules these days. Part of the agreement of having to get involved in all the petty little world wars and border skirmishes you Yurps kept getting into. American is the international language of business. We writes the language, we writes the words.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/17 15:21:39
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
DarthMarko wrote:First it's football ( you know kicking ball with your foot ) calling it soccer is well...wussy in our european eyes...
Sorry, the US makes the rules these days. Part of the agreement of having to get involved in all the petty little world wars and border skirmishes you Yurps kept getting into. American is the international language of business. We writes the language, we writes the words.
Please tell us more big and strong America. We humble peasants are in need of your guidance.
High horse
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/17 16:02:30
amanita wrote: So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote: No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again.
Beaviz81 wrote: Hahahaha, I can remember the laugh-riot I had over that theory.
1. First I will feed you the warp and make you an addict.
2. You will disappoint me and I will have to punish you.
3. When I'm done punishing you, and your brain is fried I will use you as a living battery.
It's pretty much why the Emperor gave the Thousand Sons unstable Gene-seed in the first place. The Emperor knew Magnus would leave his Sons willingly so had to give him a shove, no Legion, no purpose other than to help out his father
DarthMarko wrote:First it's football ( you know kicking ball with your foot ) calling it soccer is well...wussy in our european eyes...
Sorry, the US makes the rules these days. Part of the agreement of having to get involved in all the petty little world wars and border skirmishes you Yurps kept getting into. American is the international language of business. We writes the language, we writes the words.
Please tell us more big and strong America. We humble peasants are in need of your guidance.
High horse
Hey, I'm not taking anything away from English, but all the modern contributions to the lexicon are American in origin. The Brits had a good run, though. They'll always have Shakespeare.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
DarthMarko wrote:First it's football ( you know kicking ball with your foot ) calling it soccer is well...wussy in our european eyes...
Sorry, the US makes the rules these days. Part of the agreement of having to get involved in all the petty little world wars and border skirmishes you Yurps kept getting into. American is the international language of business. We writes the language, we writes the words.
Please tell us more big and strong America. We humble peasants are in need of your guidance.
High horse
Hey, I'm not taking anything away from English, but all the modern contributions to the lexicon are American in origin. The Brits had a good run, though. They'll always have Shakespeare.
Hey now I’m not from Britain, so no hurt feelings. I was just trying to add a little to the humor and yes, Shakespeare is fraking awesome.
amanita wrote: So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote: No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
Fluff for the Fluff God! 
