A question on banner of devastation and other things DA

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**icefire78**

So I have a few question for the new DA codex that have popped up from reading it.

1. Darkshrouds have the stealth special rule given to them in the FoC, but not under their description. Do they have stealth and the special rule shroud from the angels special rule and thus a 2+ cover when they move at all times?

2. Hurricane bolters are specifically worded as a set of 3 twin linked boltguns that fire as 1 weapon. Does this mean that banner of devastation makes them 2/4 salvo hurricane bolters, thus a darktalon / crusader within 6" of the banner could fire 24 twin linked shots a turn from the bolters?

3. Belial in his description has iron halo, but in his FoC is not listed with it in his wargear, which is true?

4. Deathwing Knights smite, is it 1 extra attack at +6 str and AP2 or is it all of their attacks that turn?

5. How does banner of devastation work in a vehicle? would it affect everything within 6" of the hull of say a land raider crusader if I put the command squad inside it?

**Quanar**

1 & 3, The Codex is full of little errors like this, we will have to wait for an Errata to be sure.

4, All attacks that turn.

5, Fairly sure you'd measure from the hull, since you have no other reference point.

2, I don't know.

**puma713**

Quanar wrote:
1 & 3, The Codex is full of little errors like this, we will have to wait for an Errata to be sure.

The $49.50 doesn't include an editor's review, apparently.

**kaapelikala**

icefire78 wrote:
So I have a few question for the new DA codex that have popped up from reading it.

1. Darkshrouds have the stealth special rule given to them in the FoC, but not under their description. Do they have stealth and the special rule shroud from the angels special rule and thus a 2+ cover when they move at all times?
Dunno. In Spanish they don't have it in either one. Atm it seems they are indeed Stealthed + Shrouded. Most likely they aren't supposed to have Stealth, just Shrouded - Vetock has just failed.

2. Hurricane bolters are specifically worded as a set of 3 twin linked boltguns that fire as 1 weapon. Does this mean that banner of devastation makes them 2/4 salvo hurricane bolters, thus a darktalon / crusader within 6" of the banner could fire 24 twin linked shots a turn from the bolters?
If Hurricane Bolters (and bike bolters for that matter) are bolters, then yes, it does. Are bolters bolters?

3. Belial in his description has iron halo, but in his FoC is not listed with it in his wargear, which is true?
Plasma talon has no type in Armoury but has one in Summary. It's supposed to be rapid fire. Belial is supposed to have Iron Halo too.

4. Deathwing Knights smite, is it 1 extra attack at +6 str and AP2 or is it all of their attacks that turn?
Second

5. How does banner of devastation work in a vehicle? would it affect everything within 6" of the hull of say a land raider crusader if I put the command squad inside it?
[b]Same way as everything else. Measure from the hull

**icefire78**

Ok, cool ty. Makes me happy that the smite works with all attacks. Also dear lord that banner + dark talons and crusaders now. I have me a firing squad from heck.

**nosferatu1001**

1) No stealth, specifically mentions they do not get it. iOS codex has the correct information.
2) No, because it isnt a bolter, its a hurricane bolter.
3) Yep, he has an iron halo. Yet more ommisions.
4) All attacks, as it states that your weapon profile changes
5) Measure from hull, check rules for embarked models - page 96 from memory? Transport rules.

**kaapelikala**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
1) No stealth, specifically mentions they do not get it. iOS codex has the correct information.
Why is the Apple version more correct than the English printed one?
2) No, because it isnt a bolter, its a hurricane bolter.
And Bike bolters aren't bolters either, I guess? Because they are Twin-linked Bolters. A Hurricane Bolter consists of three Twin-linked Bolters

**marv335**

The iOs version seems to have been updated with errata before release, most of the iOS codecies have had stealth updates to correct errors/FAQ problems.

**Formosa**

The hurricane bolter and the twin bolters are not bolters at the moment, in the same vein as a hotshot lasgun is not a lasgun, not that I wouldn't love a crusader rocking 24 twin linked bolter shots on the move, also if that did work then storm bolters would get the bonus too wouldn't it... After all its a bolter, realistically the faq will most likely give us a list of what is considered a bolter for this list, here's hoping storm bolters do get added lol, 40 shots from a full termy squad would be amazing

**icefire78**

Actually Hurricane bolter in the DA codexunder ranged weapon specifically states that it is a weapon consisting of 3 twin-linked boltguns fired as a single weapon. The banner specifically states boltguns is the reason I know it doesn't work on storm bolters. And bikes are equipped with twin linked boltguns as well.

**Formosa**

Yep all true ice, but twin boltguns are not boltguns, there.twin boltguns a totally different weapon that has a similar profile, I refer to the hotshot lasgun not being a lasgun again.

A better way.to put it is power weapons, we have several different types that are called pw but we know that they are all separate, so if the rule said "all power weapons" we would knowit was all pw, now if it said "all power mauls" we would know it is just mauls and not.axes.etc, this is what the banner does, its.just boltguns it mentions, not all boltgun types

**Drunkspleen**

Formosa wrote:
Yep all true ice, but twin boltguns are not boltguns, there.twin boltguns a totally different weapon that has a similar profile, I refer to the hotshot lasgun not being a lasgun again.

A better way.to put it is power weapons, we have several different types that are called pw but we know that they are all separate, so if the rule said "all power weapons" we would knowit was all pw, now if it said "all power mauls" we would know it is just mauls and not.axes.etc, this is what the banner does, its.just boltguns it mentions, not all boltgun types

The difference is, twin-linked is a standard prefix for weapons which grants them the twin-linked rule, it's not the same as lasguns vs hotshot lasguns, or bolters vs storm bolters.

**Formosa**

I agree it's a pre fix that makes a weapon another type of weapon, my point with the lasgun is that just because it had the same name doesn't mean that it is the same weapon, another good example is the lascannon, a standard lascannon cannot 're-roll to hit, a twin one can, these share the same stats bit are not the same weapon, as one is twin-linked, the other is not, hurricane bolters fire as 3 twin bolters but it is not a bolter for the purpose of the banner, as it is a hurricane bolter

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually a thought occurs, if twin bolters and bolters are the same weapon, then I can take twin bolters on all my marines right? As they are the same weapon?

**Drunkspleen**

So why can you say they share the stats if they are different weapons? And why can they share the stats but not other special rules that are associated?

**Loki Kaden**

Formosa, now it just seems you're being obtuse on purpose. There is a kind of weapon, Boltguns. They are affected by the Banner of Devastation. Some Boltguns also have additional rules, such as being twin-linked. Still Boltguns. Your argument is like saying that being Master-Crafted alters the weapon type, which it certainly does not. Now, to be fair, there is some room for contention with Hurricane Boltguns, but with the Twin-Linked ones on bikes? Certainly not.

Also, your Lasgun/Hotshot Lasgun analogy does not work. There are two separate entries for Lasguns and Hotshot Lasguns. There is no such distinction for Boltguns/Twin-Linked Boltguns. It is simply an additional rule conferred to an existing wargear item.

**DevianID**

In regards to hurricane bolt guns, they use the bolt gun profile. Like a combi weapon uses the boltgun profile when shooting the boltgun part. All boltguns become salvo, so if you need to know what the hurricane bolter, or combi bolter, uses for the boltgun profile you would use the salvo rules right?

**Spellbound**

At least in this codex, a hurricane bolter says specifically it is three boltguns. It's just one weapon for the purposes of getting a weapon destroyed.

**Formosa**

Sooo, a twin bolter is a bolter... Sweet all my marines now got twin bolters, cos there the same weapon

**nosferatu1001**

They are a bolter with the twinlinked rule. Do you have an allowance to take bolters with the twinlinked special rule? If so, page and paragraph

**tedurur**

Do your marines have two boltguns each?

**Formosa**

So the short answer is no I can't take twin bolters on marines as they are a different weapon type, and yes to another question asked earlier, mc power weapons are unusual pw.

**Cthulhus Thrall**

Formosa wrote:
So the short answer is no I can't take twin bolters on marines as they are a different weapon type, and yes to another question asked earlier, mc power weapons are unusual pw.

So if something affected power weapons, you would say it does not affect master crafted power weapons?

**SoloFalcon1138**

master crafted power weapons are just power weapons you can re-roll. thwy are not unusual. that would be for the DA chapter relics and such.

**Spellbound**

I thought we went over this when 6th came out, and people asked if lemartes's master-crafted power maul was ap3 because it was an "unusual" power weapon and the answer was no, it was just a regular ap4 power maul that got a reroll from the master-crafted rule.

A twin-linked bolt gun IS a BOLT GUN, but it is twin-linked.

**Happyjew**

Spellbound wrote:
I thought we went over this when 6th came out, and people asked if lemartes's master-crafted power maul was ap3 because it was an "unusual" power weapon and the answer was no, it was just a regular ap4 power maul that got a reroll from the master-crafted rule.

Actually it was just a back and forth of whether or not USRs (if I may use 5th ed terminology) counted as special rules for the purposes of making a power weapon "unusual". It took a FAQ to basically clear it up.

**Loki Kaden**

Master-Crafted makes it an unusual Power Weapon? Now you're really off the deep end. Weapon types stay the same and some are granted additional special rules. Doesn't change what they are.

**Happyjew**

Loki Kaden wrote:
Master-Crafted makes it an unusual Power Weapon? Now you're really off the deep end. Weapon types stay the same and some are granted additional special rules. Doesn't change what they are.

That was the argument.
Side A said "Power weapons with special rules are unusual. Master-crafted is a special rule. Therefore, a master-crafted power weapon is unusual."
Side B said "...you guys are idiots. That rule does not apply to "USRs" therefore it is a power weapon as modeled and has the Master-crafted special rule."
Side A replied " No you guys are wrong."
Side B replied "We are right and you are wrong."

Then it went back and forth for a while and got lost in the massive number of dead threads, because the Mods said, "Both of you shut up."

Disclaimer: words might not have been said exactly as posted.

**Formosa**

Go to the main rulebook, there is a page that lists boltguns on it, storm bolters, combi bolters etc are on there, so I guess I retract my statement, as there is a list of boltguns, of which storm bolters are one, untill the faq come out this is the list of weapons I will use to determine what is affected by the banner

**kaapelikala**

By Formosa's train of thought I guess you also fire Vulcan Mega-Bolters as Salvo 2/4, GK Hurricane Bolters don't get Psybolts, Master-Crafted non-power non-force weapons don't work since they aren't weapons with additional special rules and so on, twin-linked weapons can't be fired and so on.

**jegsar**

Your forgetting that it stated "Boltgun" referring to a specific weapon not "Boltguns" referring to a category of weapons.