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I have recently decided to expand to play Hordes as well as Warhammer 40k. All I know about Hordes is that I like Trollbloods and Circle Wold warbeasts look cool. Where can I find a rulebook for this game? How do the Trollbloods and the Circle play on the tabletop (or wherever it's played)? Which is better? Are there army books, in the same way that 40k has codexes? Tell me everything!

unfortunately, there's no legit, free rulebook, apart from quick start rules you can download from PP website. but if you already play 40K you should be used in purchasing rulebooks and army books.
the game has a main rulebook and army books for each faction (similar to 40K Codex), plus one general expansion book (Domination) with (few) rules and (few) models for each faction, a second one similar book (Gargantuan) is to be released in the next future.

on armies. I don't know very well Trollbloods, played against some times with old rules (now we have Mk II, call it "second edition" or "revised" if you like..).
regarding beasts Orboros is roughly split in two, as there are differences in living beasts and unliving ones (wolds). some casters are better with a kind of beasts, others are better with the other kind. most of them can manage both, unless... Kaya, the one that is in the starter box, as she is very furries (i.e. living warbeasts) oriented. so if you want to go with Orboros, and you want to run wolds, I would say leave the starter box on the shelf and build your army with separate packs. ^^

Gabbi wrote:
...and army books for each faction (similar to 40K Codex)

Just to clarify, the Forces of Hordes: _________ Books are NOT required to play a certain faction. Those books only contain model stats, fluff, and tier lists. Every model you purchase with the game will come with a stat card so you can play it without needing the book.

The same goes for the expansion books. While they do add the rules for Battle Engines + Colossals/Gargantuans, if you don't intend to play these, the only book you NEED is the rulebook.

First off, the army books are NOT required. The rules for each model come in the packaging. The army book is more for background than rules. In addition, there is not best faction. PP has done a great job with balancing, and while not everything's perfect, there won't be a period where your army gets crapped on by the devs. Be warned, there are hard counters to many lists, but at tourneys you can generally take 2 lists so it's not a big deal.

The rulebook for hordes is around $30 for the softcover, and you should be able to nab it at your LGS if they carry warmachine things, and if not, check an online retailer.

On to playstyle-note that this is my take on the factions from playing against them and teaching my friend who plays circle how to play. I don't know that much about either as I play protectorate, skorne, and am starting khador/legion, but I will try and help you.

Trolls: Synergy based faction, generally like infantry, almost all non-beasts are medium based and tough IIRC.

Circle: Mobility shenanigans galore, some casters like either wolds or living as said before. If you're interested in constructs, the Baldurs come to mind. Also, buy shifting stones+ua, they're great. Unfortunately, you missed out on a nice holiday bundle for circle that featured baldur.

One more thing. Changing the caster can greatly change the playstyle of your list. For example, if you are playing epic Madrak, you will generally be running lots of infantry, whereas epic doomshaper likes heavy beasts

2 things:
1. What does synergy mean?
2. I might also play Warmachine... I've heard that the rules for Hordes and Warmachine are fully compatible. It sounds a bit far-fetched, but is this true? If so, how do Khador and Menoth play?
Third thing, how do I obtain the miniatures in the United Kingdom? Thanks in advance.

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:
I have recently decided to expand to play Hordes as well as Warhammer 40k. All I know about Hordes is that I like Trollbloods and Circle Wold warbeasts look cool. ...

Welcome aboard. Hope you enjoy your stay.

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:
...Where can I find a rulebook for this game? ...

As noted, the core rulebook is not available anywhere for free. It is available for about £19.99 listed, but you can probably get it cheaper if you dig about.

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:
... How do the Trollbloods and the Circle play on the tabletop (or wherever it's played)? Which is better? ...

Trollbloods are a synergy Faction primarily. They have the ability to stack a lot of buffs which add up to some pretty potent effects. They are also an attrition Faction, with a lot of ability to take a solid hit to the jaw, and then counter-punch really hard. Most models in the army are medium-sized bases (all bases in the game have a diameter of 30mm, 40mm, 50mm, and 120mm labeled small, medium, large, and huge, respectively). This gives them a lot of ability to cover ground but also get a bit cramped. The army is also the most expensive monetarily due to overall having lots of medium models for infantry when most infantry in the game is on small (30mm) bases. On table play, Trollbloods also have a bit of a interlocking buff thing as a big factor, so protecting that support is really important or the buffed stats shift form above-average to below-average. Their ranged weapon and defensive options is where this is most evident, with good armor and lowish defense with an assumption of stackable armor buffs, and kind of short ranges since anything can be buffed to be longer. They also have very limitted ability to manage warbeasts, though can buff them through the moon if needed, they have issues keeping them under control if they run too hot.

By contrast, Circle Orboros is kind of a finesse Faction. Nearly everything in the army can manage terrain well, most of it is fast, and a lot of it is accurate. They also have a good chunk of denial, terrain generation, and very good infantry clearing. Their warbeasts are a bit schitzophrenic. With the Constructs you mention are really tough, and kind of slow, but are more utility models than anything and not able to be buffed very effectively and kind of lacking in hitting power. By contrast, the living warbeasts are fast as hell, able to hit like trucks and have high defensive attributes, but are made of tissue paper generally. Some warlocks favor one sort over another, others run a mixed bunch. Circle runs best when you do what's best on a per-warlock basis. Circle also has an issue in that htey don't support their infantry much, thier things are a bit fragile, and they have a bit of a problem with extremely high armor. Warbeasts can punch through it, but it is a bit difficutl to do so. It also is an army that lives and dies on the alpha strike, so getting those off require a lot of finesse and steep learning curves.

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:
Are there army books, in the same way that 40k has codexes? Tell me everything!

The core rulebook, HORDES: Primal MkII, was released in 2010, and there are no plans at all to do a new edition in the foreseeable future. It contains all the basic rules for models available up to that time. Models come packaged with stat cards, which list all the rules, stats, and such of the model, and also come with wound tracks for use in game.

When MkII came out, Privateer Press released a "Forces of X" book for each of the Factions updating all models that had been made in MkI, as well as a few more per Faction. These are optional books that help consolidate rules and fluff for the edition mostly.

After the Forces books, Privateer Press has moved back to its more traditional anthology setup. Unlike codices which GW releases that cover a single army when they feel like it, each anthology book contains a somewhat equal amount of new entries for all armies. For instnace, the most recent, Domination, contained rules for two new warlocks, a couple beasts, a battle engine, and some combination of about three other things for all Hordes Factions. If a new model sort not in the corebook is introduced, it has any relevant rules in the new book as well, as huge based models. Again, these are moslty optional save if you want to pick up something that is a kind of model not in the corebook.

That's about the overall of things. Hope this helps add to the pile.

And stuff.

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:
2 things:
1. What does synergy mean?
2. I might also play Warmachine... I've heard that the rules for Hordes and Warmachine are fully compatible. It sounds a bit far-fetched, but is this true? If so, how do Khador and Menoth play?
Third thing, how do I obtain the miniatures in the United Kingdom? Thanks in advance.

1. Synergy - Interaction between your own units/models to support each other. partner units, buffs, etc.
2. Basically same rule set substitue Warjack for warbeast. There are a couple of nuiances regarding fury and focus.

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:
I've heard that the rules for Hordes and Warmachine are fully compatible. It sounds a bit far-fetched, but is this true?

Yes. The only difference between the two books are the rules for Warjacks/Warcaster and Warlocks/Warbeasts.

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:
2 things:
1. What does synergy mean?

It means mostly stacking buffs or rules that kind of depend on one-another to work. Trollblood infantry has a bit sub-par defense and melee attack, but have near universal access to buffs that can bump those, as an example. An army with a lot of said buffs is often noted as having a lot of synergy, which Trollbloods have in spades.

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:
2. I might also play Warmachine... I've heard that the rules for Hordes and Warmachine are fully compatible. It sounds a bit far-fetched, but is this true? If so, how do Khador and Menoth play?

They are fully compatable. The only major differences between the two games is the magical resoruce mechanic (fury versus focus) and the main "king piece" sorts of the game that interact with it (Hordes has warlocks and warbeasts, Warmachine uses warcasters and warjacks). Infantry, movement, dice resolution, stats, all are the same really. The split is because it is easier to present the magical systems separately, and it also allows for things like sample models for each Faction in the corebooks.

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:
Third thing, how do I obtain the miniatures in the United Kingdom? Thanks in advance.

This here is a store that is mentioned a lot in the British podcasts. Would be where i suggest taking a look.

And stuff.

OK... how about the obtaining of the models here in Lincolnshire?

From UK; I've ordered a couple of times from Wayland Games, pretty famous store. I had some complain as availability and restock time isn't always as they state, but overall is a good store. more specifically: "green" items are described as "High Availability: If in stock should ship in 1-5 working days, if not then 3-9." while the "if in stock" timing is true (usually sent out the very day of order, or the day after) if not in stock, they could take WAY more than 9 days to ship.

P.S. for starting the game, there are two great deals called 2-players battle box, one for Hordes and one for Warmachine. they contains about twice minis for their price. The Hordes one contains Orboros (but with Kaya, not suited at all at running Wolds) and Legion of Everblight, better luck with the Warmachine one, as it include exactly the two factions you're interested in: Menoth and Khador.
http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/two-player-battle-box/warmachine-two-player-battle-box

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:

2. I might also play Warmachine... I've heard that the rules for Hordes and Warmachine are fully compatible. It sounds a bit far-fetched, but is this true? If so, how do Khador and Menoth play?

Hey questions about factions I play (Disclaimer-I don't claim to be an expert)

Khador-like their infantry, don't usually like to run that many jacks, slower but tougher jacks-that's about as good an overview of khador as I can give for now as I just started them

Menoth-A synergy faction with casters that are normally squishy and generally support their army. We have some casters with amazing focus stats (prime and epic severius have 8, Harbinger has 10) and we can generally run more warjacks than other factions can without jack specific casters due to the support we have for them, namely choir (buff to hit and damage, deny a large portion of shooting, or deny spells on your jacks) and Vassal (extra attack or get to move away if you get damaged) and we have many denial tools (choir, Covenant ("The book"), and other things). We also have a self-powering heavy, the Avatar of Menoth who isn't part of a battlegroup and randomly generates his focus each control phase and has a decent control ability in Gaze.

The two player battlebox is amazing for the menoth side-also, who are you looking at in Protectorate?

2 things:
1. What does synergy mean?
2. I might also play Warmachine... I've heard that the rules for Hordes and Warmachine are fully compatible. It sounds a bit far-fetched, but is this true? If so, how do Khador and Menoth play?
Third thing, how do I obtain the miniatures in the United Kingdom? Thanks in advance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, accidental repost there.. bloody phone is impossible to work... I want to get straight that Trollbloods is going to be my primary army. Warmachine is an optional extra. But I want some sort of decent heavy warjack. Khador or Protectorate got any of those? And I like the look of Exemplar Bastions... What are they like? Super-heavily armoured?

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:
Warmachine is an optional extra. But I want some sort of decent heavy warjack. Khador or Protectorate got any of those? And I like the look of Exemplar Bastions... What are they like? Super-heavily armoured?

afaik, Khador (while sporting some very imposing jack design) is generally more troop oriented, while Menoth is the faction able to run the higest number of jacks.

good website to have (more than) an idea on what each unit/model does (with some useful primer on strategies and synergies): http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/
(scroll a bit down and on the left you'll find every faction of Hordes and WM.
happy browsin'

If you are looking at just getting a heavy warjack for something on the side, every single Warmachine faction has good heavy 'jacks. In fact, with the exception of a very small number of models, pretty much every unit in the game can be used effectively, and they are all more or less balanced against each other. So really just go with a jack that you like the look of. However, if you get one of the omni-kits (ie, a kit that can be used to assemble one or more different models, usually 3), make sure you magnetize all of the specialist parts (ie, arms, weapons, etc) so that you can easily swap between the alternatives, it means that you'll only have to by at the most 3 of any given kit instead of 9. That goes for both Warmachine and Hordes, although I believe that Hordes has fewer omni-kits than Warmachine (Warmachine has about 2 per faction, I think Hordes only has about 1).

RegalPhantom wrote:
If you are looking at just getting a heavy warjack for something on the side, every single Warmachine faction has good heavy 'jacks. ...

This is actually a bit of a misnomer, in my opinion.

Every Faction, save I think the Retribution, has the ability somewhere in that army to run warjack heavy. This is in part because every Faction has one or two "jack buddy" warcasters, who can multiply his or her focus effectively to support these warjacks.

This being said, some Factions as a whole run warjacks better than others. The Protectorate of Menoth is notable due to the Choir's balancing out limitted focus resources with raw stats via the Choir, and Cygnar has very good support on quite a few warcasters and also good raw stats in general. Khador, by contrast, save for Karchev and Harkovich, finds it difficult to run more than one warjack and oftenr eaches for the best bang for the buck with that. Cryx is similar with Mortebra and Skarre2, and the Retribution and Mercenaries can run a bit more warjack heavy than Khador, but not nearly as much as some of the focused lists.

So while all Factions can run warjack heavy, some Factions are going to be more succesfful at doing it than others.

RegalPhantom wrote:
... In fact, with the exception of a very small number of models, pretty much every unit in the game can be used effectively, and they are all more or less balanced against each other. So really just go with a jack that you like the look of. However, if you get one of the omni-kits (ie, a kit that can be used to assemble one or more different models, usually 3), make sure you magnetize all of the specialist parts (ie, arms, weapons, etc) so that you can easily swap between the alternatives, it means that you'll only have to by at the most 3 of any given kit instead of 9.

For most non-character warjacks, I would say that you can even get buy with a single magnetized kit, save maybe the Protectorate and the Hordes ones. I will note that overall it is better to have bredth than depth in Faction choices in this game, if that makes sense. When you can, it is to me better to get something different htan to double-up. So in the example above, a single heavy kit that's magnetized and some other new odels will be a better choice than three warjack kits that are magentized.

RegalPhantom wrote:
That goes for both Warmachine and Hordes, although I believe that Hordes has fewer omni-kits than Warmachine (Warmachine has about 2 per faction, I think Hordes only has about 1).

Hordes indeed currently has one per Faction. Some kits do better for magnetizing than others also. I never felt a want to do that with my Warpwolves since they're all different colors. And I suggest not doing it for the upgrade kits, as it seems to create more headache than it's worth.

And stuff.

OK, thanks everybody, this has been very helpful. I'm ordering the Hordes rulebook as soon as I get home from school. It will probably be helpful for me and my friend who ALSO wants to collect Protectorate or Khador. I will post a new thread about my Trollbloods, as I am slowed at choosing new units for any reason apart from they look cool. Til then, everybody!

Just to note.

The rules mean what they say, there is no what ifs or what did they mean.

All armies are Competetive. But, not all Warlocks/Warcasters are top tier.

So no matter what Faction/Army you play, you will have the option of casters that you can take to a tourney and be fine.

With that, there are no bad units or casters, there are just units that are cheaper in point cost, and casters that have better feats/spells.

Everything will feel overpowered, thats how the game is designed, and it feels balanced after playing it, there is alot of strategy, the flow of the game can change rapidly.

 Blaque wrote:
Snip

You kinda completely missed what I was saying for the first point. I wasn't talking about running 'jack heavy, I was talking about heavy war jacks. I fully agree that not all factions can support a number of warjacks, but my point was that every faction has at least one heavy warjack that is worth playing.

Which has the most? Does Khador have many good 'jacks?Seeing as I'm going to collect Khador as a primary army, and I have ordered a Prime Mk II rulebook, I wonder if I can take an army of warjacks with Black Ivan, Torch, and all of the other 'jack characters led by Stratikov or someone...

Which has the most?

I actually don't know how many 'jack varieties each faction has, but if one thing's for sure, it's that they all have about the same amount.

Does Khador have many good 'jacks?

All 'jacks are good... as long as you use 'em correctly

army of warjacks with Black Ivan, Torch, and all of the other 'jack characters led by Stratikov or someone...

You shouldn't make a whole army of 'jacks unless you are playing at 15 points or mangled metal. Otherwise, Take a maximum of two 'jacks per warcaster.

If you start taking to many Character Jacks, you will run into the issue of... I have 3-4 Super cool guys.. and not much else.


Just remember, the named ones.. will die almost as fast as a normal one... Just with a few flashy rules / Higher cost.

OK, then, just Torch, all 'jack, one or two units of Men-O'-War. Which M-O-W are the best at taking on Exemplar heavy Protectorate armies? Which are the best against all-round Retribution armies?

I am also just getting in to the Hobby (went with Mercenaries as a main faction) and have found http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/ to be EXTREMELY helpful.. just browse around and look at the models of the different factions. There is usually a mini-review of each model as well.

If you are planning on getting Khador and your friend Menoth it would be very wise to pick up the 2 player battle box (http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/two-player-battle-box/warmachine-two-player-battle-box) .. you get a free rulebook ontop of the already great value for the models. Split it with your friend!

Grimku wrote:
http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/

Be wary, most of the Warmachine and Hordes community find Battlecollege to be unreliable as a rules resource.

Its good for new players, but some of the rules arent always right as they cant be word for word from the book.

And this game is very much if the rules say this.. they mean this.

It is a good resource with few incorrect things. Its more like they tell you just enough of what to expect without giving you the actual rule.

You still need the actual rules to play but its a good way of figuring out what you are up against.

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:
OK, then, just Torch, all 'jack, one or two units of Men-O'-War. Which M-O-W are the best at taking on Exemplar heavy Protectorate armies? Which are the best against all-round Retribution armies?

I've played against Beast 09 and Behemoth and both are brutal to play against. Black Ivan also looks good for a ranged jack. Torch didn't really seem to scary to me. Of course this is all from the view of an opponent, but I don't like lining up across from Beast or Behemoth.

MOW are interesting, but tend to be really slow. So you probably want to make sure you take a caster to speed them up. Again, as an opponent I usually just ignore them for a couple of turns till I kill the rest of the army. I feel that if the opponenet can afford to ignore something for a couple of turns then you want to reconsider how you are going to use it. I'm sur ethey can be effective, but I have yet to see them be used well against me.

Man o' War are generally boned against Exemplar. The MoW lack the speed to get the first strike, and with Weapon Master the Exemplar will generally tear the MoW a new one. To kill off Exemplar effectively, you need fast infantry that hit reasonably hard, preferably with multiple attacks that don't rely on Berserk. Against the single wound variants, Widow Makers, Winter Guard Infantry, and Winter Guard Riflemen are good choices, as the low defense of Exemplar is less problematic than their high armor and damage mitigation. Against the medium based ones, Uhlans, Doom Reavers, and Kayazy work well, as you generally need smaller volume of attacks but higher damage output to either get around their high armor or keep them from shuffling damage to the most advantageous location.

 The Wolf Of Fenria wrote:
Which has the most? Does Khador have many good 'jacks?Seeing as I'm going to collect Khador as a primary army, and I have ordered a Prime Mk II rulebook, I wonder if I can take an army of warjacks with Black Ivan, Torch, and all of the other 'jack characters led by Stratikov or someone...

If you want to run Warjack heavy do not play Khador. You will get frustrated and either restart with a new army or quit the game all together. With the exceptions of a couple casters (and not even the best ones!), Khador is an infantry faction through-and-through. Khador has by far the highest attrition rate amongst new players who see it and go "Huge Warjacks" "Dudes in steam armor" "cool!" and then find all those things are very limited, to maybe handful of lists that actually work.

Khador is the faction of seas of conscripted infantry backed up by a few elites, some gangsters and a crazy dudes with swords that whisper in their head.