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So in my mind, the Imperium of Man classifies tanks as thus:

Light Tank: No more than 1 main weapon - armor below AV 12

Medium Tank: No more than 3 main weapons - AV 13

Heavy Tank: - Armor 14 no holds bar.

In a heavily mechanized army such as the IG, why does it seem as though they are limited in the department of Medium Tanks? They seem to jump between Sentinels and Valkyries straight to as heavy ordinance as they can get their hands on. Would there not be a situation where it would be advantageous to produce (presumably cheaper) more medium tanks that are both faster than heavy tanks and harder hitting than light tanks?

Just a thought - likely to be answered by "40k isn't realistic or sensible."

Discuss. Furthermore, if you were an Inquisitor in need of Medium Tanks for your PDF, what would you order?

well with the IG (from what i can tell) the have lots of light and heavy that the need to have a midium is lost because the tanks are compensating for each other

I think it's more an aspect of the setting. I don't think there all that many mid sized tanks for any side.

Well what are SM predators then?

Leman Russ is a medium tank..
Baneblade is a heavy tank.

That should cover all of definitions of tanks.

Correction. The list goes:

Light Tank
Heavy Tank
Super Heavy Tank

AFVs like the Chimera cover the medium tank role reasonably well. There are also the FW units like Ragnaroks that are a bit lighter than russes.

The LRBT is a heavy tank.

The only Light Tank currently in an Imperial Codex is the Predator.

I've always assumed the Hellhound, Salamander, and similar were Light (Scout) Tank equivalents.

I always belived that.

Light tank, Hellhound series, Salamanders

Medium tanks, Predators

Heavy Tanks Malcador

Main Battle Tanks Leman Russ

Super heavy, Baneblade, Macharius

Imperial Guard armour doctrine actually seems more in line with conventional MBT, or "Universal Tank" doctrine.

The Leman Russ really is the only "line" tank in common use by the Imperium, and while described as rather slow, it possess valid capabilities to engage enemy armour, fortifications and infantry in its default loadout, and the numerous modifications perform various specialist roles befitting the "different" nature of 40k warfare.

Heavy tanks have been largely obsolete in modern military doctrine since Korea, and the time period that 40k was devised was the era where militaries rarely fielded too many different types of tanks.

If anything, look at Imperial armour as similar to Soviet doctrine, as they borrow a good deal from one another.

Soviet military doctrine consisted of several types of formations, each with their own type of armour support. Infantry formations, both motorised and foot based, relied on simple, mass-produced, reliable and fairly durable tanks without much in the way of "special features" like autoloaders, sophisticated electronics and so on. These were, at various times, the T-55, T-62 and T-72 series tanks.

In concert with these massed, "hammer" forces, you had specialist units; the various "Guards" divisions, and the dedicated armoured divisions fielding much more advanced tanks with better guns, armour, electronics with fully mechanized AA, infantry, artillery and so on. They utilized things like the T-64 series, the T-80, along with all manner of AFVs like the BMP series, AAA like the Shilka, MLRS like the Buratino and so on that normal divisions didn't have, or didn't have in anywhere near the same numbers.

For the Imperium, the "line" Imperial Guard rely on the buck standard Leman Russ; no frills, no fancy toys, just a battle cannon, thick armour and some heavy bolters.

Dedicated armoured units, and elite divisions tend to be much more mechanized (assuming their doctrine, of course, is armoured, the Imperium has a lot of diversity), and tasks that would otherwise be done by infantry or fixed emplacements become done by Sentinels, Hellhounds, Hydras and so on. They also field the more advanced variants of Leman Russ. Rather than just the standard pattern, they'll have Vanquishers for tank-hunting, Demolishers for cracking open fortifications and blasting apart urban targets, Executioners for heavy infantry targets, and so on, which the normal, expendable Guard may not have.

Basically, Imperial doctrine doesn't call for any kind of light/medium/heavy distinction, as it serves no purpose. They operate much more specialized light and heavy vehicles for whichever tasks may be required of the formation, much like in modern militaries. Today, one doesn't send a light tank to scout, one sends a drone, a fast attack vehicle, or a light IFV, such as the BMP-3 or Bradley, and when breaking open an enemy hardpoint, precision artillery, airstrikes, or massed MBTs perform the job, as there's no need for old-school linebreaking tanks, they're just less efficient killing machines.

Besides, it's logistically much easier to have a single model of tank; you need less spare parts, and fewer skilled mechanics to repair standardized equipment, and the Imperium is always focused on logistics. Hence, one chassis for tanks, one chassis for everything else.

At least that's my interpretation of it.

And we are kinda gravitating back towards that concept in our modern military with the same Chassis being used for multiple roles(Stryker)

It only makes sense to use the same body for multiple uses as a cost cutting method.

But aren't using the same bodies also a way of standardization that the IoM is famous for? So if we adopt Engine of War's definitions of tanks (which is probably the best so far), each bracket has a STC that is modified slightly depending on the need, even I don't get why there is really only one variation of medium tanks - and it's only used by the SM's. Similarly, why aren't other tanks used by the SM, would they not benefit from Hellhounds that fit their "hit hard and fast" tactics?

 ENOZONE wrote:
Well what are SM predators then?

The Predator is really more of a light tank. It carries little more than trumped up squad heavy weapons, and is most noted for its speed in the lore.

Seeing as the Rhino, Razorback and Predator are basically the same tank, only kitted differently. I would call the Rhino and Razorback equivalent to modern APCs (Armored Personell Carrier). Put more guns on an APC and you get an IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle), which the Predator basically is if you don't put lascannons on it. To me IFV is just a fancier name for light tank, so it's a light tank, by 40k standards. A light tank with reinforced front armour. 10-11 is pretty light armour if you ask a Space Marine, I think.

A Vindicator on the other hand is also based off the Rhino platform, but with fatter armour and a fatter gun. So it's a heavy tank, but more specifically it's a siege tank. So it's a special purpose heavy tank. Kinda like the WW2-era Sturmtiger.

Yes, it's more a Self-Propelled-Gun than what is traditionally thought of as a tank.

And of course it is also mention in the fluff that Land supposedly was looking for the "lost" medium tank that was "heavier and more powerful than the Predator but lighter and faster than the Land Raider"

Yeah, but I think of that as GW mostly just being stupid.

Ah, and I have the perfect idea for a medium tank... but I'd probably get sued.

I feel like the Leman Russ fulfills the Main Battle Tank role quite adequately, and, similar to modern times, the Main Battle Tank has made both the heavy and medium tank series obsolete (while light tanks live on in Cavalry Vehicles such as the M3).

The real Imperial "heavy tank" in 40k if you must make the distinction is the Macharius, called the Macharius Heavy Tank.

The Baneblade is considered a Super-Heavy tank.

MBT isn't incompatable with Heavy Tank AFAIK.

Also the malcador, which is likewise a heavy tank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
MBT isn't incompatable with Heavy Tank AFAIK.

An MBT is, in laymen's terms, basically a tank with the speed of a medium tank and the armor and firepower of a heavy tank.

 Melissia wrote:
Also the malcador, which is likewise a heavy tank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
MBT isn't incompatable with Heavy Tank AFAIK.

An MBT is, in laymen's terms, basically a tank with the speed of a medium tank and the armor and firepower of a heavy tank.

This is exactly right, thank you Melissa. Exalted!

I feel like I am the only one who refers to an MBT as the main (primary) battle tank of an army.

This would make takes like Panzer 4s and Shermans MBTs lol. Apperently im an odd ball

Also you can't really go by the Codex as to whether the IG doesn't have any Medium Tanks. As I recall the Leman Russ Conqueror was a lighter version of the Leman Russ MBT. Also there was that tank in one of the Gaunt Ghost's books, it was described as a light or medium tank, compared to the Leman Russ anyway. Chaos was using it but it was originally an Imperial design.

 Galdos wrote:
I feel like I am the only one who refers to an MBT as the main (primary) battle tank of an army.

This would make takes like Panzer 4s and Shermans MBTs lol. Apperently im an odd ball

Nazi afair initially called Pz.IV "heavy tank" - due to 75mm gun - though in other classifications initially it was light tank - under 20 tons. But this was "grim teutonic geniuses", who created Panther - "medium tank" heavier than soviet heavies..

Actually MBT is not just "medium tank fast with heavy tank potection" , but tank which do cost-efficiently all the tank tasks. First such design was T-44B (later known as T-54/55) which incorporated protection and firepower only slightly inferior to heavies in much lighter and cheaper chassis (but with top speed inferior to mediums).
As for MBTs...every country have their own idea of tank place in battle - for ex. M1A2 is "heavy" compared to T-90S, but while being better AT weapon, it lacks in mobility, non-AT firepower and , 'cept overweight specialist TUSK version, overall protection. So under other classification it can be rightfully called "heavy Tank Destroyer".

This is why I find my definition to be easier

The wikipedia entry on main battle tanks is rather interesting.

If only the Leman Russ were as sexy as a Panther...

If they had proper scaling they might.

Next best thing is a Baneblade.