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IA1 second edition has brought a 6th edition update to the old armored battlegroup list, and as someone who loves tanks it's a very appealing option. If you're not familiar with it, here are the important parts:

1) BS 4 Leman Russes as an HQ (none of the rear AV 11 versions), with some special HQ-only upgrades.

2) Leman Russes as troops choices, but no exception to the "vehicles are neither scoring nor denial units" rule.

3) Veteran squads and platoon infantry squads in Chimeras as the only non-vehicle troops choices.

4) Pretty much every IG tank besides the Manticore is an option somewhere in the FOC.

So, obviously you're going to be able to take as many tanks as you could possibly want, but how do you avoid automatically losing the 5/6 missions which have objectives? Too many points spent on tanks and your minimal troops won't be able to survive long enough to hold objectives and win the game, but too few points spent on tanks and you don't gain anything over a standard codex IG list. I usually play between 1000-1500 and I can't figure out a list I'm happy with.

Well, it's more like the 1/3 of missions.

The relic is going to be pretty easy to prevent your opponent from getting, and if you're bringing an all or near-all-AV14 army, then odds are pretty good you're getting first blood. Slay the warlord is going to be a bit trickier than average to get on you as well.

Likewise, with Emperor's Will, all you've got to do is keep a few key units of your opponents dead, and it's going to roll over to secondaries, where you're going to win.

Add in purge with no objectives, and big guns, in which some of your tanks DO score, and really it's just scouring and crusade you need to worry about. That's not that bad.

In these cases, I'd just treat it like a death company list - just go for the table. You've got the firepower and durability to pull it off. Alternately, you can just really focus on taking out your opponent's scoring units and hoping for secondaries.

As such, you're going to really want to have at least a couple of eradicators, or perhaps punishers, given how much you're going to want to neutralize your opponent's scoring units, and you're probably going to want to make the rest of them some rather serious anti-vehicle to be able to get at said scoring units when they're embarked in transports.

Because once your opponent is out of scoring units, you've made them your bitch on those missions that care about that. Given that you don't even need to care about that most of the time, I'd say that an AV14 spam army has a real chance.

Well the points level is part of the problem. Notice that 6 tanks in an IG army is ~1200 pts after "reasonable" upgrades, etc.

The only advantage the armoured company gives you at this point is no HQ/Troops "Tax" and no need for squadrons.

The disadvantages far out weigh this in that you don't have scoring units, don't have pask (if he is your thing), and in the Big Guns your tanks are no longer scoring.

I think at higher point levels the armoured battlegroup list starts working better (or lower point levels perhaps...500 pts = 3 leman russ, yummy )

Ignoring that you can either go for tabling your opponent. Which you will need something for everything (an eradicator may find its way into the list but probably will end up being a punisher).

or you could take one of those vet squads in a chimera...wait sorry for speaking blasphemy please don't get the inquisition (actually not a bad ally for this army, what with the cheapest scoring units in chimeras in the game)

 ansacs wrote:
I think at higher point levels the armoured battlegroup list starts working better (or lower point levels perhaps...500 pts = 3 leman russ, yummy )

Well, the problem with higher point levels is that you get double FOCs, and you go back to being limited by points, not FOC slots for your tanks. And of course the troops problem becomes much worse, since a token veteran squad or two is going to get wiped off the table immediately by 2000 points of focused fire. Whatever the point level is you still need roughly the same proportion of points spent on scoring units, so going from 1500 to 2000 doesn't change the fundamental problem.

I can't help but think the ABG works better as an allied contingent. There's no "Troop tax", as the troops you're required to take are the same tanks you wanted to bring in the first place.

And of course, just as the ABG helps avoid squadroning, the ABG works well under the allies FOC chart. They can take the tank of your choice in seemingly whatever slot you've got left. Just don't expect them to score for you. The Dark Angels and Chaos Marine codices have been restricting FOC reallocation to primary contingents. If that's how you're going to get durable scoring units, perhaps the ABG is the right way to complement that.

Yeah, I don't like it either.

Really interested in this list ordered the book last night to give it a try.


Until I get the book how does the costing of the Armored Fist troops compare to say allying with GK and getting squads of inquisitorial henchmen in chimera's?

Id assume that CC is still if not more of the bane now to this list so having a couple of counter charge units could be handy?

I am wanting to get this book as well, love to have an ABG ally to my BA force and to my IG vet force.

Seems like the rules sound a lot better than the old 5th Ed ones.

One Q though - is Snake Stranski still in the rules? I just want an excuse to make the twin-plasma pistol gunslinger model!

I play with ABG frequently, and it mostly is a hit/miss type of thing. As it's a FW list I always let my opponent know I'm taking an ABG because if they aren't prepared the game simply isn't fun.

Anyways, keep your Russ' bare. There's no need to add sponsons besides on an Exterminator. As far as scoring goes I always take at least three (usually four) troops in Chimeras. Tanks are great, but troops in Chimeras are required to score and provide you more shots that aren't templates. As someone else said, definitely try to just wipe out the opponents scoring units.

Your HQs and fliers should be using their abilities (higher BS and Vendettas Lascannons) to take out AT while the rest of your Russ blast apart troops. All the while your Chimeras are driving around staying in cover waiting to dump their load on objectives.

I haven't gotten to check the new list out because I can't justify spending $90 on an army list. How else is the new list different, or are those changes pretty much it?

I've been thinking about using he ABG as an allied detachment. Do you needy the IA book or just the FW PDF to fully utilize the list?

The list as I understand it has changed from the previous version you would need the book imperial armour 1 second edition.

I want that book, just don't want to spend $80~ for it.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I want that book, just don't want to spend $80~ for it.

Capitalism, HO!

 Griddlelol wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I want that book, just don't want to spend $80~ for it.

Capitalism, HO!

I have a friend who likes to acquire PDF's. sometimes they appear magically in a drop box link for me. Capatalism only works if yor item is priced reasonably. Hence all the forge world copiers out of Russia and china. By pricing their goods so high GW has made their own black market. Not saying I agree or disagree with any of it, just stating facts.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I want that book, just don't want to spend $80~ for it.

Capitalism, HO!

I have a friend who likes to acquire PDF's. sometimes they appear magically in a drop box link for me. Capatalism only works if yor item is priced reasonably. Hence all the forge world copiers out of Russia and china. By pricing their goods so high GW has made their own black market. Not saying I agree or disagree with any of it, just stating facts.

lol obscure reference, I was hoping someone would get it. I agree, FW is too pricey for me, but fortunately people I play with don't care about non-physical copies. Not like I would have spent $80 on it anyway.

Incoming mod infraction for mentioning it...

Well, as I said in the other thread, I really like the idea of a main list Eldar Corsairs with an Allied Armoured Battalion.
(Bear in mind I do not have access to the Armoured Battlegroup list, so the points costs are somewhat guestimated).

About ~1200 points should get you:
HQ:
Corsair Prince (Jetpack, not sure what else. I suppose you can kit him for a bit of disruption/cc. If his deepstrike ability transfers to allies, this could be really fun)
Command Tank (Vanq, Beast Hunter, Co-Axel)
Troops:
3x Corsair Squad (Jetpacks, 2 EML)
Wasp War Walker Squadron (2 Walkers, 2x Scatter Laser)

Leman
Leman (Not sure about configuration. I'm thinking something with a Pie Plate, or Executioner. If DS is permissible, Demolisher)

With pre-measuring, your jet-pack troops should try to stay at the very limit of their range to prevent counterattacks by the opponent. If you fear deep strikers against your Lemans, perhaps stick them against the back board edge and surround with your corsairs. I like the general flexibility this list could give you, since everything can deepstrike (seem disclaimer above) and your non Leman elements can skirmish like crazy. The main question that remains is what type of Leman to take.

Also, you have plenty of options for flyers as anti-air.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I want that book, just don't want to spend $80~ for it.

Capitalism, HO!

I have a friend who likes to acquire PDF's. sometimes they appear magically in a drop box link for me. Capatalism only works if yor item is priced reasonably. Hence all the forge world copiers out of Russia and china. By pricing their goods so high GW has made their own black market. Not saying I agree or disagree with any of it, just stating facts.

lol obscure reference, I was hoping someone would get it. I agree, FW is too pricey for me, but fortunately people I play with don't care about non-physical copies. Not like I would have spent $80 on it anyway.

Incoming mod infraction for mentioning it...

Obscure reference - Thunder cats?

I'm also thinking the ABG is a better allied detachment if you're serious about winning.

It's a fun list to run just straight, and works well in Apocalypse and team games, but 1v1, the lack of any real scoring ability means you might blast things to pieces, and you can always go for the table, but it doesn't take much to lose.

I'm going to play around with some lists, see how it works as an allied force this weekend, and I'll come back with my results if the question is still pertinent.

I have been using allied platoons for bubble wrap and objective scoring, although I am still trying to find the right balance of armour to infantry.

The problems that I am having are the same as I had with foot Guard: it is hard to get line breaker or claim enemy objectives. I am still trying things like stormtroopers, Al'rahem and Chenkov to solve these problems, although I need more test games.

One thing that I have noticed about some of my lists is that I could use either ABG or IG as the main list. Two platoons, two troop russes, a CCS and CCT with various fast attack and heavy support choices mixed in. In such cases, the choice of which to use as the main detachment must be purely based on the warlord. The ABG warlord table is quite nice, although the "vp from ramming" result seems useless on russes, so that is the one I have been using.