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Just curious about this. I know that there aren't going to be as many tanks in a regiment as there are infantrymen in an infantry regiment, but do they say anywhere how big guard armored regiments are? 100 russes?

Russ Armored Companies are between 12 and 24 tanks. Depending on the number of Companies a Battalion is comprised of, and how many Battalions comprise a regiment, you can do the math.

Well there is not Average size. But there is a base size, in which tank regiments under this size will likely be merged with other regiments.

A Base Regiment is three companies. Each of those in turn are three platoons. Which each of those are two squads and a command unit.

Russ are formed into squadrons of 1-3 tanks. This is the base of a platoon more or less. Or a squad if ya get really creative I Guess. If you count them as squads then you Get

1-3 squads x3= I"platoon"
9- 27= 1 company
27-81= 1 regiment

However if you count a squadron as a platoon you get smaller number as the base.

1-3 = 1 squadron
3-9= 1 company
9-27 = 1 regiment.

Also keep in mind the IG do not do combined force regiments. They will however break one up and sign it to others for support. which is what happens to most tank regiments.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
Depending on the number of Companies a Battalion is comprised of

where are you getting a Battalion from? The IG codex does not use them.

They're always wishy washy on force organization. Do the regiments comprise battalions, or do battalions comprise regiments, if battalions are even being used?
If you go by base IG standard organization charts, they don't use Battalions, true, but really, it's not unlikely to find battalions being used.

Also, I think you're missing a command squadron. I swear I've seen a Tank Organization Chart somewhere.

Battalion is not used in the IG codex, it does cover that some regiments call themselves something else, but term has no meaning in the TOE.

You have 3 squads = platoon
3 platoons= a company
3 company= a regiment.

Although that is the min, you could have 10 companies of 20 platoons each and its still a regiment on the TOE.

Arcsquad wrote:They're always wishy washy on force organization. Do the regiments comprise battalions, or do battalions comprise regiments, if battalions are even being used?
If you go by base IG standard organization charts, they don't use Battalions, true, but really, it's not unlikely to find battalions being used.

From how I'm interpreting the material, the Imperial Guard does not normally use "Battalion" for the line forces - but alternate terms can be carried over from a tithed regiment based on where they were raised. For example, the Semtexian Bombardiers are organised into "Batteries", Necromundan Spiders into "Battalions", Minervan tankers have "Legions" ... there's even the Skull Takers from Canak IV with a "Clan". Mind you, all these are terms that show up right next to the usual Companies and Regiments in the Force Disposition Charts for the Third Armageddon War.

I have a feeling that, just like with the uniforms, their hierarchy may be similarly muddled, at least on the lower levels where it wouldn't bother people from High Command. One rank sometimes just being called differently in the next regiment, another rank not existing there at all ...
Guess this is just what happens when you try to forge an army out of so many different worlds with as much red tape as the Imperium has to deal with. The Munitorum isn't even able to ensure 100% coverage with lasguns, and that's supposed to be one of the few standards they have.

However, normally a regiment will be organised according to certain standards, and this is what we see in the Guard Codex.

Arcsquad wrote:I swear I've seen a Tank Organization Chart somewhere.

There was one in the 2E Guard Codex, but here is one from GW's website:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1320004_5.0_Background_and_Forces.pdf
Scroll down to page 89, "Imperial Guard Regimental Organisation".

From looking at my two 3rd edition and the single 5th edition guard codexes as well as numerous IG books that Ive read - there is no rule with armored companies.

Organisation varies from world to world.

Eg sometimes a single Leman Russ is called a squad and three are called platoon. 3 platoons and 1 command tank = company. From here any number of companies can make a brigade and then onto division. see Imperial armour and gun heads

Another variation is that 3 leman Russ are a squad, 3 squads and a command vehicle are a company. 2 - 5 companies make a battalion, 2 battalions make a regiment and multiple regiments make a division or army.

The terminology used is widely variable, how the armored companies are composed varies immensely. This allows flexibility in organisations for a campaign based upon what resources are available and what FOG will best serve the mission. Furthermore, the millions of worlds mean they will all carry their own traditions or try to define themselves somehow from the rest.

It is also great because it means you can use your imagination and organise/make stuff up however you want !!

You can follow the old armored company rules, or you can follow the simple diagrams given in codexes, you can follow the different patterns in the imperial armour, you can follow whats in the black library novels, you can follow real history eg German army organisation or you can make it to whatever captures your imagination

From what I've seen from GW's Apocalypse rulebook:
Regimental Commander in an LRBT
3x Companies of LRBTs
-Company = 3x Squadrons of 3 and 1 Command Tank (10 tanks total)

From what I've seen from Black Library (source = gunheads):
Regimental Commander in a Shadowsword / superheavy
1x Command Squadron of LRBTs (3x tanks)
x Companies of LRBTs, 10 tanks each

From what I've seen from Forge World:
Regimental Commander in various vehicles of his choosing
5x Companies of Armor, either LRBTs or Super Heavies (10 LRBTs per company, 3x Superheavies per company)
x amount of Mechanized companies
x amount of support companies

Imperial Armour Volume One Second Edition includes a handy-dandy organization chart for the 19th Konig Armoured Regiment

It includes the following:

1x Armoured Recon Section: 3x Sentinels
1x Signals Company: 3x Chimera, 2x Trojan
3x Departmento Munitorum Supply Companies, 8x Trojans, 3x Sentinal Lifters, associated troops
1xQuartermasters Company: 10x Chimeras
2x Engineering Recovery Sections: 3x Atlas, 3x Trojan, work crews
1x Departmento Munitorum Workshop: 1x Trojan, associated troops

This is the Regimental Command level, included the commander themselves, but they have no specified vehicles, as they do not lead from the front.

As combat formations,

3x Armoured Brigades
Each Brigade constitutes: 3x Armoured Companies: each company consisting of a command tank, and three squadrons of three tanks each
Each Brigade therefore constitutes 30 Leman Russ tanks, with each company being 10 tanks strong
No mention is given to a brigade commander, therefore it can be assumed one company commander assumes the duties of brigade commander

3x Mechanized Infantry Brigades
Each brigade constitutes 3x Mechanized Infantry Companies, of three platoons each
Company Command consists of 1x Salamander Command Vehicle
Each platoon consists of 1x Chimera Platoon Commander, 4x Armoured Fist sections, and 1x Chimera-Mounted heavy weapons detail

1x Regimental Defence Squadron: 5x Leman Russ, assigned to defending command sections

1x Artillery Brigade, consisting of a single artillery company, with 1x Salamander and 1x Chimera acting as the command section, and 4x Squadrons of artillery, consisting of 3x self-propelled artillery

1x Anti-Air Company, 1x Salamander as the command section, and 3x Hydras

1x Armoured Reconnaissance Company, consisting of 1x Salamander as the command section, 2x Armoured Recon sections of 4x Armoured Fist squads, supported by 4x Sentinels

1x Anti-Tank squadron, of 3x Tank Destroyers

Outside the chain of command, there are 5x Commissars of varying inclinations, and attached specialist companies, such as the 50th Cadian Heavy Tank Company, consisting of one Shadosword, the company command tank, and 3x Baneblades, and the 113th Dniepr Siege Tank Company, with 9 Demolisher-variant Russes, and one Salamander command vehicle, etc, etc

This particular regiment, as an example provided by FW, has 265 fighting vehicles, but only 55 are Leman Russes and their variants, as none of the formations are at full strength; the majority are Chimeras, with 94. That being said, this is more a Mechanised, or Armoured Cavalry force by modern interpretations than a pure "armoured" regiment, as it consists of a substantial amount of mechanized infantry, self-propelled artillery and so on.

Even at full strength, this regiment would only have 90 "line" Leman Russes in its three armoured brigades, plus the 5 tanks of the regimental HQ defence, and any tanks used by the Commissariat or other senior officers.

Just on the subject of terminology;
The terms used in the IG Codex are not a case of 'this is it, these are the only terms anyone uses across the galaxy'. With a million, give or take, planets and many with their own variations of low Gothic, the options are there to use whichever terms you want to use. The galaxy is a huge place that takes months to cross! Messages can take years to get to their recipients - how on earth could an exact uniform method of organisation be enforced across hundreds of thousands of regiments consisting of hundreds of millions of guardsmen? The Imperium takes the tithed regiments, puts them into brigades, corps & armies, then punt them off to warzones where the only important factor for the Administratum/Munitorium are that those guardsmen are fighting the enemy. I bet they couldn't care less if a regiment was organised like hive gangs - so long as they fight the enemy it doesn't matter.

Personally I always refer to 'Squads' as 'Sections', armoured platoon's as 'Troops' and armoured company's as 'Squadrons' and I like to think that each regiment consists of several battalions.

With the size of some Imperial Guard regiments, examples going into the hundreds of thousands of men exist, it makes sense for a regiment to be split into smaller units, Battalions, and then even smaller ones, Company's, in order to make command more fluid.It's a lot easier for the regimental commander if he only has to think of how to use his, say, 6 battalions whilst the officers commanding each battalion only have to worry about the companies under their immediate command.

Thing with 40k is that you can't take the military stuff as being immediate 'this is absolutely how it is' because a lot of it is nonsensical. Who can honestly keep an eye on 400 companies of a 200,000 man regiment? Must makes orders a pain in the backside with the amount of comms flying about, reports from up and down the chain of command and the poor commander having to give orders like this;

"Companies number 1, 4, 5, 7, 12, 13, 14, 15, 19, 20, 26, 28, 29, 30, 41, 55, 66, 76, 78, 79, 99, 103, 105, 106, 111, 115 take that hill.'

Whereas if he can say;

'Major Jimbob, I want your battalion to take that hill!'

It's a lot easier & more fluid.

With the second one Major Jimbob has his orders, he can then use his the forces of his battalion as he sees fit to take the objective & the commander knows his orders are going to be obeyed & can turn his attention to other parts of the regiment.

It's funny how such a tank regiment of the Imperial Guard is so much smaller then an old Soviet Army Tank Division (roughly the equivalent to an IG Regiment), which had upwawrds of 300 tanks in it.

GW so bad with numbers.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
Just on the subject of terminology;
The terms used in the IG Codex are not a case of 'this is it, these are the only terms anyone uses across the galaxy'. With a million, give or take, planets and many with their own variations of low Gothic, the options are there to use whichever terms you want to use. The galaxy is a huge place that takes months to cross! Messages can take years to get to their recipients - how on earth could an exact uniform method of organisation be enforced across hundreds of thousands of regiments consisting of hundreds of millions of guardsmen? The Imperium takes the tithed regiments, puts them into brigades, corps & armies, then punt them off to warzones where the only important factor for the Administratum/Munitorium are that those guardsmen are fighting the enemy. I bet they couldn't care less if a regiment was organised like hive gangs - so long as they fight the enemy it doesn't matter.

Personally I always refer to 'Squads' as 'Sections', armoured platoon's as 'Troops' and armoured company's as 'Squadrons' and I like to think that each regiment consists of several battalions.

With the size of some Imperial Guard regiments, examples going into the hundreds of thousands of men exist, it makes sense for a regiment to be split into smaller units, Battalions, and then even smaller ones, Company's, in order to make command more fluid.It's a lot easier for the regimental commander if he only has to think of how to use his, say, 6 battalions whilst the officers commanding each battalion only have to worry about the companies under their immediate command.

Thing with 40k is that you can't take the military stuff as being immediate 'this is absolutely how it is' because a lot of it is nonsensical. Who can honestly keep an eye on 400 companies of a 200,000 man regiment? Must makes orders a pain in the backside with the amount of comms flying about, reports from up and down the chain of command and the poor commander having to give orders like this;

"Companies number 1, 4, 5, 7, 12, 13, 14, 15, 19, 20, 26, 28, 29, 30, 41, 55, 66, 76, 78, 79, 99, 103, 105, 106, 111, 115 take that hill.'

Whereas if he can say;

'Major Jimbob, I want your battalion to take that hill!'

It's a lot easier & more fluid.

With the second one Major Jimbob has his orders, he can then use his the forces of his battalion as he sees fit to take the objective & the commander knows his orders are going to be obeyed & can turn his attention to other parts of the regiment.

I think the same ! And Major Jimbob should be in the IG codex

Harriticus wrote:It's funny how such a tank regiment of the Imperial Guard is so much smaller then an old Soviet Army Tank Division (roughly the equivalent to an IG Regiment), which had upwawrds of 300 tanks in it.
GW so bad with numbers.

Not really. I think it's more that, as per Codex fluff, the Munitorum has a fixed ideal "power level" that all regiments have to conform to. And since tanks are much more powerful/valuable than infantry, it will take a lot less tanks to get to a strength equal to a regiment of thousands of foot sloggers.

Plus, even with a fixed amount of 10 tanks per Company (operating on basis of the Codex chart), the number of Companies in a regiment is variable. With 10-20 being standard, this means 100-200 battle tanks in the armoured regiment, which is fairly close to that Soviet Army tank division example (3 brigades with 65 tanks each, for a total of 195).

IG regiments are a very odd thing, they aren't the size of a "regiment" as we could consider it now, but anywhere from division sized at smallest typically, to corps or even army group sized depending on the author, but usually IG regiments are really roughly division sized more than anything else. Going with that, I'd expect an IG Tank regiment to have anywhere from 150 to 300 tanks, probably usually around 200ish.

This is all assuming that the 'Imperial Guard' as an organization have standardized all this across everyone, it's entirely possible that different worlds organize their regiments differently.

The individual worlds have little say on how their tithe eventually ends up - it's the Munitorum that says "we'll take X tanks this time".

But yeah, as mentioned before, you could explain the occasional "odd" formation names like divisions, squadrons, legions or clans in-between the normal regiments, even though they'd still conform to Munitorum standard in their actual fighting strength. Also, at least as per the current Guard Codex, the Munitorum classifies the term regiment not like "has X units" but rather "has a fighting strength of 1.0". Depending on how good or bad the planet's PDF is, you'll just need more or less people/vehicles to fulfill this demand.