Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey all, I just got into Warhammer 40K and I'm really interested in the Chaos Space Marines. I picked up the 6th edition codex a couple of days ago and checked out some of the models in-store but didn't really buy anything else. Having said that, I'm having a lot of difficulty deciding on what units to buy. Most suggestions come in the form of 1 HQ, 2 Troops. For the HQs I really like the Kranon Chaos Lord model from the Dark Vengeance set and the Daemon Prince. The Chaos Sorcerer also looks great to me. This is all from an aesthetics viewpoint because I still have no idea how each units play or what each HQ's benefits are. As to playstyle, I think I'm more of a patient and wait and react kind of guy because I enjoy playing control-combo decks in MTG (I don't know if that would have any correlation to tabletop gaming playstyles but it's really all I've got to run on). Some have also suggested I just start with a Battleforce or the Dark Vengeance set but I'm not really looking forward to dropping ~$100 on a set where I won't really use all the units so I guess it really boils down to 2 questions:

As a CSM player, which HQs are recommended for a relatively defensive playstyle? Perhaps being able to exert a lot of pressure without actually engaging in combat?

Should I pick up the Dark Vengeance or Battleforce or should I buy units all separately?

Thanks!

Plague marines play fairly defensive

 Texanity wrote:
Plague marines play fairly defensive

Yeah, I was reading a lot about them while browsing and everybody seems to think they're great units.

Well, there's Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch and Slaanesh. They're the gods that your army will comprise of. The best choice is to go chaos undivided, which means you use all four.

Khorne is the essence of a melee rush, and scaring the sh*t out of the enemy. (Berserkers)

Nurgle is about taking enemy gunfire while surviving, and holding objectives. (Plague Marines)

Tzeentch has sorcery and a lot of tricks to support their allies. (Thousand Sons)

Slaanesh has a lot of ranged/balanced units, but aren't as scary as the others. (Noise Marines)

Welcome to the forums!


If you're going defensive with Chaos (patient wait and see, as you said), then go shooty. Very shooty.

I think either a sorcerer or a lord would be good for such a build. I'm avoiding the temptation to put out an army list, as half of the fun is making your own list.

You're going to want fire power, so your heavy slots should be filled every game with a shooty CSM list.

Havocs: 6-7 men with 4x autocannons gives you a reasonably survivable unit that can open up Rhinos and Chimeras, the most common Imperial transports.

Obliterators are your swiss army knives. A pair of them with a Mark of Nurgle is a nice fire base. If you have a land raider coming at you, spin up a pair of lascannons (I think they get them). If you have terminators out in the open, then use your plasma cannons. Rhinos? Assault cannons.

Predators. If I were to field a predator, it would have lascannons on it. Havocs do autocannons better than predators, so I don't see the point in using up their slot for a predator with autocannons.

Defiler: Meh. That battle cannon is excellent, but nearly every time I've played against one, the cannon shot has scattered off into the distance. :-)

As for HQ's and troops, I'd go sorcerer. Pick your mark, but Tzeentch has some shooty powers. Stick him with a squad of 9 Chosen and plasma guns, and you have a very good anti-infantry and anti-monstrous creature unit.

Troops? Keep your ability to remain mobile with your 10 man CSM squads, a heavy and special weapon, and plop them in rhinos. Keep in your rhinos and shoot the long range weapon of your choice. I wouldn't bother with Marks here, as that makes troops get too expensive quickly.

I think you're taking the right approach, though. Buy the codex, make 3 or 4 lists, post them here, get feedback, make more lists, get feedback, and then build to your list. I wish I had instead of buying a bunch of stuff I don't use. *Looking at you, Black Templar Sword Brethren!*

The Dark Vengeance is a great set for any beginner because, even if you only use a third of the things in the box, you get a rulebook and templates. It's highly recommended to split a set with another player, and with Dark Angels recently being released, you really shouldn't have a problem finding someone to split the box with you.

Can't really weigh in on the rest, but Tzeentch is the essence of blue in MTG.

The Dark Vengeance box is a really good deal. You get pretty much everything you need rules-wise, and you can convert all the Dark Angels to Chaos. The Battleforce is good too, but not as good as it used to be.

Papa Nurgle is the most defensive of any build, because units with Mark of Nurgle are insanely hard to kill. A Nurgle Biker is almost unstoppable against an IG army, save Flamer or Plasma vets, since they're Tough 6. That's almost as strong as a Monstrous Creature, but stupidly cheap.
If you want to go Nurgly, Typhus is an awesome HQ. If you get the DV box, he can turn all those cultists into zombies which make for a great horde to tangle up the enemy while you get nice and settled in. Typhus also makes Plague Marines into Troops (as will any Lord with MoN), which is the bread and butter to a defensive Chaos list (Fearless, T5, and FNP).

While it's not as "defensive", a Heldrake is an awesome investment. If it comes in soon enough, you can swoop down and pop open whatever enemy transport decides to trundle your way, then lay into the troops that spill out with the Baleflamer. That will at least make your opponent have to stop and rethink what they were planning.

Thank you all for the awesome input!

So far from what I've read here, grabbing Typhus with Plague Marines and Cultists seem like something I'd really be interested in doing! I'm kind of new to all this so I'm not too sure about the wargear stuff and the marks but I'm assuming since I'm going Typhus, Nurgle is a great option and Plague Marines would be one of my 2 troops whereas the Cultists would be the other troops (1HQ 2Troop suggestions)? I'm aiming for somewhere around a 500-1k army for now so I guess this is what* my army would consist of so far*:

HQ:
Typhus

Troops:
Plague Marines
Cultists

I don't which customizations and specials to use so far but would you guys suggest grabbing these units individually; playtesting them with my friends, then adding on to them later? Or just grab that Dark Vengeance along with Typhus =P

As a beginner, it's always best to start small and go from there. It's important to actually get a feel for how a force plays, as while you might enjoy how a force sounds on paper, playing it is an entirely different situation.

In addition, it's good to not have too much to paint at a time, otherwise you're very liable to get overwhelmed (unless you're already an avid painter).

A good idea for now is a Chaos Lord on a bike with mark of khorne and the axe of blind fury. Then a couple squads of chaos marines, I personally like the plasma gun/autocannon/mark of nurgle setup. Then a squad of bikers to go with your lord (spawn will work here as well). That should get you up to 500-750. Expanding from there you could get Autocannon Havoc squads, Helldrakes, and Obliterators if you want real defense. Maybe try an Aegis Defence Line with a quad gun too

Plague Marines are the best Troops choice in the codex, best way to run them is as a unit of 5 with 2 Plasma Guns in a Rhino. But if you're just starting out any set up will work well. Their main strength is their resilience. Typhus is one of if not the hardest character in the book too.

Cultists that are made into Plague Zombies are also the most effective way of using them.

Nurgle is a good choice to go with, the most effective units become even better when given the Mark of Nurgle.

Personally I would not buy the Dark Vengeance box unless you know someone who wants to go halves on the Dark Angels. You can get all of it separately very cheap on Ebay. The Chaos Lord for example:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WARHAMMER-40K-DARK-VENGEANCE-KRANON-THE-RELENTLESS-CHAOS-LORD-/261149923099?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item3ccdbf971b

But if you like the models, it is a great start for the mini rulebook (which has its advantages over the main rulebook), the templates, and some dice.

EDIT: The Dark Vengeance set is a 500 point army, depending on what Wargear you give your Lord. And a little more if you start giving your Troops Marks of Chaos. It is also a legal army (1 HQ, 2 Elite, 2 Troops) with a good variety of units to help give you a good idea of how 40k and Chaos in general play.

Best bit of advice I can give you:

Start small. Like 500 pts. Somewhere within the first few games you'll get an idea of what you really want. While at it, try to do games where you can proxy them.

Meaning, play a game with Typhus as your HQ, then play one with Ahriman or Lucius. They all have strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I really like Noise marines.

Either way, if you don't already have the rulebook, then buy the Dark Vengeance box. Between the book, templates and models you'll save a fair amount of money.

Sounds great! Just as an other option... what would you guys suggest if I wanted to run the Daemon Prince? Or a more aggressive, assault-based army?

DeeZeeWhy wrote:
Sounds great! Just as an other option... what would you guys suggest if I wanted to run the Daemon Prince? Or a more aggressive, assault-based army?

Daemon Prince are more fun then competitive. If Yo you are looking for an anti marine (or elite 3+ armour save)/ anti psyker I would get some thosuand sons.

I don't recommend khorne zerkers, cuzz if you kit out the regular troops with the mark and banner they are basically the same but way cheaper (4 points a model i think)

Plague marines are always good

noise marines are also good, careful about putting to much points into them. Sometimes gearing them up for cc with extra cc weps and giving the lord his flamer thing works great.

Heldrakes are quite good anti air , or there balefire great for killnig long fangs, lootas etc.

Forgefiends/ maulefiends are great choices, although I would try to go away from the eco plasm, and never upgrade to have the extra one if you are running hades.

Bikes (especially nurgle), are super cheap this codex and T 6 is impressive.

Spawn can actually be pretty good

Sorcerers are great, lords especially nurgle biker lords, or khorne lord with that special axe are great.

Generally speaking the special characters are fairly priced are good.

DeeZeeWhy wrote:
As to playstyle, I think I'm more of a patient and wait and react kind of guy because I enjoy playing control-combo decks in MTG (I don't know if that would have any correlation to tabletop gaming playstyles but it's really all I've got to run on).

Unfortunately you aren't going to find an equivalent to those MTG strategies in 40k. Imagine that instead of a normal game of MTG you're playing a special game where you play four turns and then the player with the highest life total wins. Would you see many control decks? Of course not, all you'd have is subtle variations on aggro strategies, perhaps a choice between burn and suicide black. 40k is the same, defense can't win games, so the best defense is killing everything in your opponent's army. There's no real viable control-style strategy, only lots of variations on how you aggressively kill everything in your opponent's army.

And of course the equivalent of a combo deck doesn't exist, since there's no way to win a game besides putting scoring units on objectives like everyone else does.

Hmm, well since I didn't have any of the rulebooks or anything other than a codex, I went out and picked up the Dark Vengeance starter box yesterday. I grabbed some plastic glue and held off on the clippers and hobby knife (I'm using an old pair given to me by a friend but they're getting kinda rusty... o_O). So far I'm just putting the pieces together, saving the painting for another day, perhaps after I browse the Painting and Modeling subforum for a couple days, haha. I'm really loving how the models look but now I have the task of trying to find someone to grab the Dark Angel models off of me so I can buy more squads! So I guess this is a big thank you for all your guys' help with coming to my decision! Do you guys have any suggestions on painting other than what I can find on the P&M forum?

Psykers are actually very defensive with the right powers. Telepathy powers are pure control and work great if you are going defensive.

For chaos, defensive tends to mean shooty, which means tzeentch may be your man, since he can make bolters that light people on fire.

The great deal of chaos HQ's are offensive guys really, they don't exactly have what some other books do in terms of firepower they can put on an HQ, save the brand of skulltharax or whatever.

Don't forget you can always use the dark angels models as chaos guys without too much trouble.