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Greetings all, I am new to Dakka Dakka and to Warhammer 40k 6th edition (had two games in 5th edition when the new rule book came out, and only have had one game in 6th).

My army is Necrons.
My question is based around a specific scenario that I played involving a battlement on the second story of a building and being attacked by a unit below. Here is how it went.

Building: Square building with one ground level and battlements on the roof.
Situation: My Monolith Deep Striked ontop of the building (thus in the battlement).
My opponent (8 Dark Elves with haywire grenades) surrounded the outside of the buiding. The miniatures were measured out to be 2" away from the top of the battlement (where my monolith was).
My opponent stated each of his 8 dark elves were throwing their haywire grenades.

Page. 96 states "When a unit assaults a building, any of its models that are within 8" of the battlements can each throw one grenade onto the battlements instead of striking the building in close combat, or throwing grenades into fire points."
Because they are Haywire, they cause 1 hit.

Page. 62 defines Haywire grenades.

Page. 37 defines Haywire.

My opponent did not roll as he stated they were auto hit (no rolls because he was assauting the building). My opponent rolled 8d6 and scored several glancing hits and two penetrating hits. Because each successful hit reduces a Hull Point, the monolith was destroyed.

My question are these:
1. Can an enemy unit assault the building if there is a unit in the battlements on TOP of an unoccupied building?
2. Should my opponent been able to throw 8 grenades or just 1?
3. Should my oppenent roll to hit with each of the grenades or is it auto hit?

It was a fun game and I have a lot to learn about the rules and tactics, but just trying to understand how battlements work with grenades. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ambrose

question #1 is heavilly debated there are a couple threads here dedicated to discussion of that and as for #2 yes
for #3 not sure

I never knew we turned into Dark Elves

1. Yes why can't they assault a building? It's stationary.
2. He should have gotten 9, 1 in the shooting phase and 8 in the assault phase.
3. No, battlements should count as WS0 which is auto hit

 Makutsu wrote:
I never knew we turned into Dark Elves

1. Yes why can't they assault a building? It's stationary.

Because you cannot shoot or assault an unoccupied building. Occupying the battlement on top is not considered occupying the building below.

But you are allowed to take over the building right?

 Makutsu wrote:
But you are allowed to take over the building right?

Sure, but that wasn't the question. The unit in question may have been much farther than 2" away from the building before they charged. Point is, if they were, by RAW, they should not have been able to charge the building. This may have given the Necron player another chance to move the Monolith or to destroy the incoming unit.

1) No. The rules clearly state that you cannot assault an unoccupied building (pg 93) and the rules for battlements specify that you can ONLY assault the unit on the battlements if they're already inside the building below. But assuming the building below had been occupied (and therefore the charge had been legal) then the answer to your other questions would have been:

2) Yes, you can throw up to 8 grenades at a unit in the Battlements when assaulting the building below.

3) They are automatic hits.


---


Now above and beyond all of that I have serious reservations about whether or not a skimmer (vehicle) is even allowed to be in/on battlements. The reason for that, is that battlements themselves still follow the building rules (they are one part of a multi-part building) just with a bunch of exceptions, like they can hold a number of models equal to what can fit up there, they can be shot at directly, etc.

But the important thing to remember here is that where there aren't listed exceptions, a battlement still follows the rules for being a building (which is also the rules for being a transport vehicle).

Only infantry units (and a joined character) are allowed onto a transport vehicle unless specified otherwise. Now, battlements do specify that Jump and Jet Pack units can move onto a battlements, so these are clearly an exception, however vehicles have not been granted such an exception and therefore I don't believe that skimmers are allowed to be in/on a battlement (so it would therefore be impassable terrain to them). Now, Skimmers ARE allowed to end their move over impassable terrain (if they'll fit there), so I do think skimmers can still end their move on top of a building with a battlement, but they should NOT count as actually being in the battlement, as vehicles aren't given permission to be officially 'in' the battlement.

So personally, I think when your Monolith landed on the building it should have rolled a Deep Strike Mishap. But in any other case where a skimmer just normally moved on top of a building with a battlement it would just count as being on impassable terrain, but not actually in/'on the Battlements.

Yak, I've actually been wondering this since it can fit up there assuming the flying stand is tall enough,

What about jetbikes? they can be in a transport (assuming he has enough capacity and no rule that specifically says that they cannot.

The Monolith... I would let them if it hits it fits though it would take a dangerous terrain test IMO and it would be kinda funny/bad since it would make it farther from units when targeting them with it's guns. Also you can assault it and not be shot back at if you hop in the building first.

Thank you for the clarification. For clarification;

Its Dark Eldar, not Dark Elves (sorry).

The Dark Eldar could enter the building, but not assualt the building (no one in the bulding except on the top battlements).

As they were making their way closer to the building they could have thrown a SINGLE grenade and thus rolled to hit with a SINGLE grenade.

Once in the building they could have assaulted the battlements from below allowing all 8 of them to auto hit the battlements? Is this correct?

As for the monolith on top, I asked if it was a real target for Deep STrike. They told me if the model can actually fit, then it was a real target but would suffer a dangerous terrain test (which it made).

Thanks again!
Ambrose

jegsar wrote:Yak, I've actually been wondering this since it can fit up there assuming the flying stand is tall enough,

What about jetbikes? they can be in a transport (assuming he has enough capacity and no rule that specifically says that they cannot.

The Monolith... I would let them if it hits it fits though it would take a dangerous terrain test IMO and it would be kinda funny/bad since it would make it farther from units when targeting them with it's guns. Also you can assault it and not be shot back at if you hop in the building first.

Actually only infantry can embark on a transport vehicle except where specified otherwise (such as with the Night Scythe or Storm Talon, for example). In all other cases, ONLY infantry can embark on a vehicle.

Again, buildings, including Battlements follow all the rules for transports except where specified otherwise. The only other model types that are specified as being allowed in the Battlements are Jump and Jetpack units...you'll notice that on page 95 only Jet and Jump Infantry are granted the ability to enter the Battlements, as opposed to including Jetbikes and Skimmers in there as well like they do in the similar vertical movement rules for ruins on pg 99.

So Bikes, Jetbikes, Beasts, Calvary, Artillery, Monstrous Creatures and vehicles all cannot technically be in a Battlements (unless they happen to be 'Jump' or "jet Pack' units).

But yes, Skimmers and Jet Bikes can still end their move on top of the building (as it is impassible terrain that they can fit on top of), but they just wouldn't count as being 'in' the Battlements for when it matters in the rules.

Ambrose wrote:Thank you for the clarification. For clarification;

Its Dark Eldar, not Dark Elves (sorry).

The Dark Eldar could enter the building, but not assualt the building (no one in the bulding except on the top battlements).

As they were making their way closer to the building they could have thrown a SINGLE grenade and thus rolled to hit with a SINGLE grenade.

Once in the building they could have assaulted the battlements from below allowing all 8 of them to auto hit the battlements? Is this correct?

As for the monolith on top, I asked if it was a real target for Deep STrike. They told me if the model can actually fit, then it was a real target but would suffer a dangerous terrain test (which it made).

Thanks again!
Ambrose

Yeah, they could have thrown one grenade as a shooting attack in the shooting phase at the Monolith up there.

As for assaulting it once they're inside the building, assuming you're playing that the Monolith is allowed to count as being 'in' the battlements, then when assaulting it from inside they would not get to 'throw' any grenades at all, (they would just attack using their grenades against the vehicle as usual for an assault against a vehicle). See the rules for assaulting within a multi-part building (because that's what a building with a battlement is) on pg 92 for more details.


And as for the Monolith Deep Striking onto the building, I can see that interpretation, but I disagree with it as I've explained in this and my previous post. I think the building should be considered impassable terrain to the Monolith and therefore if it lands on top it should suffer a Deep Strike Mishap.

Okay, so for clarification;

Okay, one final question;

If battlements have a WS of 0, and an enemy is throwing grenades at the battlement (thus auto hitting) does that mean any troops or models inside suffer the hit automatically or only the Battlement?

If the troops above are auto hit, do they get the cover save of the Battlement?

 yakface wrote:

jegsar wrote:Yak, I've actually been wondering this since it can fit up there assuming the flying stand is tall enough,

What about jetbikes? they can be in a transport (assuming he has enough capacity and no rule that specifically says that they cannot.

The Monolith... I would let them if it hits it fits though it would take a dangerous terrain test IMO and it would be kinda funny/bad since it would make it farther from units when targeting them with it's guns. Also you can assault it and not be shot back at if you hop in the building first.

Actually only infantry can embark on a transport vehicle except where specified otherwise (such as with the Night Scythe or Storm Talon, for example). In all other cases, ONLY infantry can embark on a vehicle.

Again, buildings, including Battlements follow all the rules for transports except where specified otherwise. The only other model types that are specified as being allowed in the Battlements are Jump and Jetpack units...you'll notice that on page 95 only Jet and Jump Infantry are granted the ability to enter the Battlements, as opposed to including Jetbikes and Skimmers in there as well like they do in the similar vertical movement rules for ruins on pg 99.

So Bikes, Jetbikes, Beasts, Calvary, Artillery, Monstrous Creatures and vehicles all cannot technically be in a Battlements (unless they happen to be 'Jump' or "jet Pack' units).

But yes, Skimmers and Jet Bikes can still end their move on top of the building (as it is impassible terrain that they can fit on top of), but they just wouldn't count as being 'in' the Battlements for when it matters in the rules.

Actually, I don't agree Yak. Battlements don't follow the same rules for transports:

pg. 95 says:

"Unlike the interior of buildings, to which we grant a transport capacity, the battlements of buildings can hold as many models of a single unit as will fit."

This says to me that it does not use Transport Capacity. I also dont' think the FAQ changes it by saying you can disembark from a battlement - in my mind, that is just telling you how to get out of it, not that it shares any rules with buildings.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ambrose wrote:
Okay, so for clarification;

Okay, one final question;

If battlements have a WS of 0, and an enemy is throwing grenades at the battlement (thus auto hitting) does that mean any troops or models inside suffer the hit automatically or only the Battlement?

If the troops above are auto hit, do they get the cover save of the Battlement?

You do not assault battlements, you simply assault the units inside the battlement. Battlements are not buildings. Battlements on top of buildings classify the building that they are on top of as a "multi-part building", but they are not buildings themselves.

 puma713 wrote:


Actually, I don't agree Yak. Battlements don't follow the same rules for transports:

pg. 95 says:

"Unlike the interior of buildings, to which we grant a transport capacity, the battlements of buildings can hold as many models of a single unit as will fit."

This says to me that it does not use Transport Capacity. I also dont' think the FAQ changes it by saying you can disembark from a battlement - in my mind, that is just telling you how to get out of it, not that it shares any rules with buildings.

The quote you posted does not actually say anything about Battlements allowing different types of models to enter it, simply that it doesn't have a specific transport capacity...the number of models that can fit there is instead used.


So again, let's look at the entire situation here:

Premise 1) A building with a battlement is a multiple part building (pg 95).
Premise 2) A multiple part building is one that has two or more buildings joined together (pg 92).

Conclusion 1) A Battlement is still a building (one part of a multiple building)...just one that has a number of special rules and exceptions.


But before we get to the exceptions and special rules of a battlement, let's look at the core rules for what types of units are allowed in buildings:

Premise 3) Only a single unit of infantry (plus joined ICs) can occupy a building (pg 93).

Conclusion 2) Therefore, since a Battlement is a building and buildings only allow a single infantry unit to occupy them, only a single infantry unit may occupy a battlement unless specified otherwise in the rules for a Battlement.


So now let's look at what exceptions Battlements actually have from the normal rules for being a building (pgs 95-96):

1) Battlements do not have a transport capacity. Instead they can hold as many models fit up there (but no exception is given for different types of model, so although you can fit as many models as you can up there this would still be limited to a single unit of infantry plus joined ICs).
2) Battlements do not have fire points and instead use true line of sight, including the unit being shot normally and not being fearless.
3) Units are able to enter/leave the Battlements via the building underneath it, or via outside ladders, if present (plus lots of other rules about this process).
4) Jump and Jet Pack units are allowed to move directly to or from a Battlement (and do not treat it as difficult terrain if they do), thus giving Jump and Jet Pack units permission to occupy a Battlements.
5) Rules for leaping down.
6) How units in Battlements take damage when the building below is attacked.
7) How units in Battlements Fall back or otherwise abandon it when it is destroyed.
8) A section on resolving assaults against units occupying Battlements.


And that's it!

So as you can see, there is absolutely NO permission given outside of Jump and Jet Pack units for any other unit type besides Infantry to occupy a Battlement because a Battlement is a building and only Infantry can occupy a building.


And seriously, contrast the rules for Jump/Jet Pack models moving up into a Battlements on pg 95 with the rules for Jump, Jet Pack, Jetbikes and Skimmer rules for moving to the upper levels of a ruins on page 99.

If Jetbikes and skimmers were supposed to be able to 'occupy' a battlement, do you think they just forgot to mention those unit types in the rules on page 95?






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 puma713 wrote:

You do not assault battlements, you simply assault the units inside the battlement. Battlements are not buildings. Battlements on top of buildings classify the building that they are on top of as a "multi-part building", but they are not buildings themselves.

Incorrect. The very definition of a multiple-part building states that they are a building comprised of two or more buildings joined together.

So a Battlement still follows the rules for being a building except where specified otherwise.

For example, look at the section on Battlements and Building Damage on page 95...you can actually choose to fire AT a Battlement if you want, something that is ONLY possible if the Battlement is following the rules for being a building (except where noted otherwise)!

 yakface wrote:



So again, let's look at the entire situation here:

Premise 1) A building with a battlement is a multiple part building (pg 95).
Premise 2) A multiple part building is one that has two or more buildings joined together (pg 92).

Conclusion 1) A Battlement is still a building (one part of a multiple building)...just one that has a number of special rules and exceptions.

I disagree with this conclusion. There is nothing at all tying Premise 2 with a battlement being a building itself. In fact, there's nothing in the rules that even suggests that it is a building. Everything in the rules points to the building itself, and when it has a battlement on top, it is considered a multi-part building. This does not mean that the battlement is a building. In my mind, if it was a building, they wouldn't keep referring to actions in battlements occurring as they would if it were a building. For instance, deployment. It says you may deploy inside a battlement just as you would a building. If it was a building, why even include that section?

Moreover, there is a FAQ answer that says battlements are not buildings:

pg. 7, Rulebook FAQ:

Battlements have no armor value as they are not buildings. They serve to protect any models on the roof of the building in the same way as barricades and walls, offering a 4+ cover save.

If a battlement were a building, why would they say battlements are not buildings?

Further proof, the answer prior:

pg. 7, Rulebook FAQ:

Battlements are treated as being separate from the building itself, simply acting as cover for any models on top of the building in question - see the rules for battlements on page 95.

All signs point to battlements not being buildings.

 yakface wrote:


Conclusion 2) Therefore, since a Battlement is a building and buildings only allow a single infantry unit to occupy them, only a single infantry unit may occupy a battlement unless specified otherwise in the rules for a Battlement.

All of this is based on the fact that your Conclusion 1) is correct. I do not agree that simply because it causes its building to become a multi-part building, that it is a building itself.

 yakface wrote:


So as you can see, there is absolutely NO permission given outside of Jump and Jet Pack units for any other unit type besides Infantry to occupy a Battlement because a Battlement is a building and only Infantry can occupy a building.

Again, if it were a building.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 yakface wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

You do not assault battlements, you simply assault the units inside the battlement. Battlements are not buildings. Battlements on top of buildings classify the building that they are on top of as a "multi-part building", but they are not buildings themselves.

Incorrect. The very definition of a multiple-part building states that they are a building comprised of two or more buildings joined together.

So a Battlement still follows the rules for being a building except where specified otherwise.

You are making a logical leap that I don't think you're allowed to make. You're saying that because the building below the battlement becomes a multi-part building, that the battlement itself becomes a building. I don't agree. Battlements are not buildings. The building that it is on top of simply becomes a multi-part building, using all the rules for multi-part buildings. This does not define a battlement.

 yakface wrote:

For example, look at the section on Battlements and Building Damage on page 95...you can actually choose to fire AT a Battlement if you want, something that is ONLY possible if the Battlement is following the rules for being a building (except where noted otherwise)!

You are making grand assumptions from the passages you are reading, I am afraid. If you can shoot at battlements, what is their armor value? How can I damage them? Where are the rules for causing damage to the battlements?

You'll notice that the heading of that section is Battlements and Building Damage. When a building is damaged, it is possible that the unit in the battlement may become damaged as well. This is simply telling you how to resolve damage coming from the building if it were to result in damage to the battlement. I don't see anything in that passage giving you permission to shoot at the battlement.

I had forgotten about the FAQ clarifications and I agree that they've definitely made it clear in there that Battlements cannot be damaged separately from the other part of the multiple building (sorry about that), but there is clearly a reason they had to answer those questions.

Because a multi-part building is TWO OR MORE BUILDINGS JOINED TOGETHER. And there are all kinds of instances regarding the Battlement that are left completely unsaid with the basic premise that the Battlement does behave like a building where otherwise noted.

So yes, GW has clarified that a Battlement can't actually be attacked or damaged itself, but again, the way the rules are written does naturally refer back to the basic rules for a Multi-part building. For example (and there are others) the rules for units being assaulted in a Battlement from a unit inside the building simply say that this can happen, but unless we assume this follows the normal rules for assaults inside a multi-part building (on pg 92) then there are no other rules guiding this process.

In addition you see stuff like the quote about units being Fearless which say (emphasis mine): "Units on battlements are not Fearless like other embarked units."

This doesn't say 'unlike embarked units' but says OTHER embarked units.

The point being, whether the Battlement can be attacked or not, the rules are written as though the unit in the Battlements is doing a special kind of embarking...only a single unit can be up there (with ICs) and the entire unit must be up there or not at all.

So again, given that they don't explicitly go out of there way to contradict the basic guideline about what types of models are allowed to enter the Battlements, I don't see why we'd suddenly assume that this means any type of models can.

As I've pointed out several times: notice that the rules for moving onto/off of a Battlement only cover Jump and Jet Pack models moving vertically. Look at the rules for 'leaping down' apparently we're saying a Monolith can 'leap down'? And why would Jump Infantry and Jet Packs get protection from leaping down a great distance but not Jet Bikes and Skimmers?

My major issue with the current faq about battlements is according to pg 96 grenades thrown onto a battlement hit the battlement....... Who takes this hit if it can't be hit? The building underneath?

Gravmyr wrote:
My major issue with the current faq about battlements is according to pg 96 grenades thrown onto a battlement hit the battlement....... Who takes this hit if it can't be hit? The building underneath?

Yeah, I guess so. Again, reading closely it sure looked like at one point maybe they intended for Battlements to be able to be damaged separately. Some parts of the rules seem to sound like that and others not so much. So there's a reason all those FAQs exist (because it sure looked the other way to me before I was reminded of the FAQ). So I don't know if this was a case where when the FAQ was released it was a purposeful change in rules or rather what they had always intended but, just had failed to remove these confusing references before the book was published.

 yakface wrote:


I had forgotten about the FAQ clarifications and I agree that they've definitely made it clear in there that Battlements cannot be damaged separately from the other part of the multiple building (sorry about that), but there is clearly a reason they had to answer those questions.

Because a multi-part building is TWO OR MORE BUILDINGS JOINED TOGETHER. And there are all kinds of instances regarding the Battlement that are left completely unsaid with the basic premise that the Battlement does behave like a building where otherwise noted.

Where does it say your capitalized statement above? The only time I see that is in the following passage:

pg. 92, Rulebook

If a building you are using is taller than this, larger than the maximum footprint given above or includes battlements (page 95), TREAT IT as a two more more smaller buildings joined together.

This doesn't mean that battlements are buildings. This mean that you treat a building with a battlements as a multi-part building. You follow the rules for multi-part buildings. If the battlements were just another piece of the multi-part building, why define them at all on page 95? You've got all the definition you need.

No, instead, they give you a reference to the rules for battlements so you know how to play them. They are not buildings (FAQ), they are cover (FAQ) on top of a multi-part building. That is RAW.

 yakface wrote:
So yes, GW has clarified that a Battlement can't actually be attacked or damaged itself, but again, the way the rules are written does naturally refer back to the basic rules for a Multi-part building. For example (and there are others) the rules for units being assaulted in a Battlement from a unit inside the building simply say that this can happen, but unless we assume this follows the normal rules for assaults inside a multi-part building (on pg 92) then there are no other rules guiding this process.

Actually, they have to go out of their way to make sure you include battlements when you're talking about assaulting in multi-part building:

pg. 92, Rulebook

Units can also charge an enemy that is occupying an adjacent building (including battlements).

Why (include battlements) at all, unless battlements are not buildings and so need to be clarified?

 yakface wrote:


So again, given that they don't explicitly go out of there way to contradict the basic guideline about what types of models are allowed to enter the Battlements, I don't see why we'd suddenly assume that this means any type of models can.

Why not? They are not buildings, and they "simply act as cover for units on top of buildings." That is as far as the rules for battlements go, in my opinion. The rules say if the unit fits, it can be there. A monolith is a unit. It is a not a building, so it not being infantry doesn't matter.

 yakface wrote:
As I've pointed out several times: notice that the rules for moving onto/off of a Battlement only cover Jump and Jet Pack models moving vertically. Look at the rules for 'leaping down' apparently we're saying a Monolith can 'leap down'? And why would Jump Infantry and Jet Packs get protection from leaping down a great distance but not Jet Bikes and Skimmers?

What do you do if a skimmer moves down from the top of a cliff to the valley below? Because that is what is happening - the skimmer is moving from a piece of cover (battlements, which have been defined both in the FAQ and the rulebook) down to a piece of open terrain.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gravmyr wrote:
My major issue with the current faq about battlements is according to pg 96 grenades thrown onto a battlement hit the battlement....... Who takes this hit if it can't be hit? The building underneath?

The battlement has nothing to do with the building. Try to separate those two ideas.

The grenade hits the unit occupying the battlement. You cannot hit a battlement. It is cover, not a building. If you read underneath the heading for Assaulting the Battlements on page 96 - the one you were referencing:

pg. 96 Rulebook

Units on battlements cannot be assaulted, except by units in the building below them. Grenades, however, can be employed against them by units assaulting the building below.

That entire section is dedicated to telling you about the unit inside the battlement and how to toss grenades at them.

Keep reading the grenade section it tells you the battlements take a hit what do you do with it now then?

Gravmyr wrote:
Keep reading the grenade section it tells you the battlements take a hit what do you do with it now then?

I don't do anything with that. I assume it is another editorial screwup since the rulebook and FAQs all point to the contrary. I assume that sentence must be the outlier, not the rest of the rules.

However, all other sentences surrounding that one are dealing with the main subject of the entire section: units on battlements.

If you actually use all the rules together the outlier is the FAQ. They cover nearly everything in the book going so far as to say that a building with battlement is a multipart building. That a battlement can be damaged is clear both in the grenade section and also in the battlement and building damage where it states a battlement can be damaged. The only thing they don't cover is what units are allowed to be up there but as Yak pointed out they reference normal transport rules. It's the FAQ that started the worst issues with the can't be damaged bs. The only other question is what is allowed up there and they may have left that vague as to allow players to model anything they want and allow options, talk it out with your opponent.

Edit:

We'll just have to disagree. My argument is presented above and I have no desire to re-type it all out.

I have to agree that they are not buildings, I should have said that battlements have many similar traits with buildings. You did post a statement I would like clarified cause I think I may have missed something though. You said earlier that the rulebook itself as well as the faq all point to a battlement not being damageable. What in the book points to it not being damageable?

Okay, I don't feel so bad as I can clearly see that the rules are written in such a way that more than I can get confused.

Getting back on topic, If an enemy assaults the battlements (WS 0 and thus an auto hit) does the troops IN the battlements get auto hit (suffering the D6/d3 or 1 wound)? One wound to the SQUAD? Does the squad on the battlement get the 4+ cover save?

Gravmyr wrote:
I have to agree that they are not buildings, I should have said that battlements have many similar traits with buildings. You did post a statement I would like clarified cause I think I may have missed something though. You said earlier that the rulebook itself as well as the faq all point to a battlement not being damageable. What in the book points to it not being damageable?

I think I was talking about the book referencing them as cover, not as being undamageable. But if you can find that quote, I'll respond to it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ambrose wrote:


Getting back on topic, If an enemy assaults the battlements (WS 0 and thus an auto hit) does the troops IN the battlements get auto hit (suffering the D6/d3 or 1 wound)? One wound to the SQUAD? Does the squad on the battlement get the 4+ cover save?

That seems like a few questions mashed into one.

First of all, you don't assault a battlement, you assault a unit in a battlement. A battlement doesn't have a weapon skill. A battlement is a piece of cover. You do not assault trees or rocks or rivers.

However, if you were to assault a unit in a battlement, it is treated just as you assault a unit in a multi-part building. So, if you're assaulting, then you automatically cover the charge distance, and there is no Overwatch. All models are in CC, so all models can hit. Then, you resolve Assault as normal and the winning unit consolidates where they want.

That being said, in your situation, the unit of Dark Eldar would have had to have been occupying the ground floor to assault the unit in the battlement. And in that case, they could've used grenades just as they would in any other assault. The Dark Eldar could not have assaulted the building with grenades because the building was not occupied. So, the Dark Eldar had two choices:

1.) Occupy the building in their movement phase, and assault the unit in the battlement in their assault phase.
2.) Shoot at the unit in the battlement (including throwing a grenade, if they were in range).

They did not have the option to all throw grenades at the unit in the battlement.

So, to try to answer all scenarios of your question:

1.) If the Dark Eldar had occupied the building, you would have fought assault as normal (they would have assaulted your Monolith).
2.) If the Dark Eldar had shot a grenade at the Monolith, they would have gotten 1 shot at normal BS.
3.) If the Dark Eldar could've reached the building (and it had been occupied), they could've tossed grenades into the battlement. These grenades auto-hit. If they were Haywire grenades, they would each cause 1 automatic hit at the Strength and AP of the grenade with the Haywire rule.

Since that is assault, you do not get cover. If it had been a shot (like a thrown grenade), you would get 4+ from the battlement (except for the fact that you're a huge pyramid, so you wouldn't get cover from a battlement anyway).

Awesome, that clarifies things.

I think I found it and I don't think you actually said anything in the book says they are not damageable sorry about that. I do think they need errata now to change what they didn't want in the BRB. My reasoning is simple, it helps clear up confusion and limits future problems and issues with rules that have no effect. Currently they have two sentences in two sections that are going to cause issues

pg 95 "Accordingly, if the battlements are damaged, any unit on the battlements suffers the same number of hits as a unit inside a building would, but these are resolved at Strength 3, not Strength 6."

pg 96 "The battlements take 1 hit from a thrown grenade, just like any other building."

The second actually refers to battlements as buildings and the first implies you can damage them and if you do you would roll on the damage chart and the embarked unit would be damaged.

It looks to me as they had started to make them a subset of buildings, like skimmers are to vehicles, and then forgot or missed things when they changed their minds.

I am the Dark Eldar player in question, and this rule has been tossed back and forth in our gaming group a bit, so I am very interested in seeing this played out. Unfortunately 2 of the guys in our group thought one thing and 2 thought another, but I think I am clear now.

I was completely unconvinced by this thread to be honest (too much back and forth on irrelevant discussion on whether or not the skimmer could have been there in the first place). So I went back to the rules on page 96 and just did a word for word read. Based on that reading I think the way we played it that day was incorrect

So as stated above, to toss the grenades on the battlements, you need to be assaulting the building below (not the unit on the battlement). What the rules are getting at is an alternate way to attack the building that you are assaulting by peppering the building with grenades. Had there been a unit inside the building, that would have been allowed. So i think that much i am clear on now.

I also think that it is very clear on page 96 that the building itself is automatically hit by this attack. I believe that when it says on pg96 that "The battlements take 1 hit from a thrown grenade, just like any other building." They are just clarifying that the building as a whole takes a hit.

The follow up question I am left with is as follows:

Assuming the attacker is assaulting the building (if it were occupied), and there is also a unit occupying the battlements above (i.e. one squad inside the building, and one on top). Are the units on the battlement similarly hit by the grenades that are exploding all around them? In the scenario discussed I was tossing haywire grenades (so no blast area), so that's a bit harder to conceptualize in my mind. But what if they were plasma grenades that had a blast template? How could the units on top of the battlements not have been in the blast area?

Silverglade wrote:

I also think that it is very clear on page 96 that the building itself is automatically hit by this attack. I believe that when it says on pg96 that "The battlements take 1 hit from a thrown grenade, just like any other building." They are just clarifying that the building as a whole takes a hit.

This they're not doing at all. Before FAQ's, buildings with battlements were multiple part buildings, and battlements are a separate building from the main building below. So no, the building below does not take a hit when you throw grenade at battlements and vice versa.
And because of FAQ, battlements don't take damage at all.

Silverglade wrote:
The follow up question I am left with is as follows:
Assuming the attacker is assaulting the building (if it were occupied), and there is also a unit occupying the battlements above (i.e. one squad inside the building, and one on top). Are the units on the battlement similarly hit by the grenades that are exploding all around them?

You have two options: You're throwing grenades either inside building from the firepoints or you're throwing grenades to battlements. While you're allowed to split them, no model may do both. So there are "grenades exploding around the battlements" only in the case you're throwing grenades actually there. And in that case, the unit takes D3 or 1 hit per grenade, as per rules,

Silverglade wrote:
In the scenario discussed I was tossing haywire grenades (so no blast area), so that's a bit harder to conceptualize in my mind. But what if they were plasma grenades that had a blast template? How could the units on top of the battlements not have been in the blast area?

Problem is that you have completely misconceptualized what is happening. When you use grenades to assault building, you're trying to throw them inside building... (see page 94, Grenades):
If a unit assaults a building, any ony of its models that are within 2" ofat least one Fire Point can each throw one grenade inside the building....
Assaulting the Battlements on page 96 tells how the grenades work with them.
And if you're thinking "Why is there no blast when placing grenades on buildings/vehicles" answer is simple: Because it's your own troops that would die.

At first i thought you were dead wrong. But now I get it.

So I guess I go back to one of Ambrose's questions then.

Assuming there was someone inside the building for me to be in a position to assault the building in the first place, and I instead chose to toss the grenades at the monolith on top of the battlements, then am I correct in my read of the rules that I would not roll to hit, it would automatically cause D3 hits per grenade thrown with blast templates and 1 hit for those without the blast or large blast type?

I am looking at the last paragraph in the relevant section on page 96 which states "a grenade thrown onto the battlements causes D3 hits.....". Basically I read that to work pretty much the same as template weapons firing overwatch.