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So a buddy of mine is doing an IG/SW gunline army, and I'm looking for CSM tactics to beat it. I'd also like to hear opinions on who I could ally with to help out. I was thinking IG too, but also Necrons. What does dakka think?

I had great success with deepstriking 3 units of 1 obliterator with MoN each, 1 helldrake, and 2 squads of 3 MoN Biker Marines with 2 meltas / combi meltas(or flamers) against an IG gunline recently. The helldrake just roasts infantry blobs and the Vector strike on side armor is amazing. Twin linked flamer on the Oblits guarantees he'll be making a Leadership test if he's not spread out.

The concern I have is he plans on using the SW ability. That makes you treat 24' around it as difficult/dangerous terrai(Can't remember what its called). So deep striking in would be pretty bad.

Heldrakes. Fukken loads of heldrakes. Ally in more heldrakes. If I cut your list, it bleeds heldrakes.

His list isn't worked out yet, but he intends on running a defense line with quad gun nd hyrdas for AA support. A fleet of Heldrakes might go down pretty quick.

Hydra is meh, Quad Gun is easily roasted by bale flamer. What points level are we talking about? That changes a lot, and I'm not hugely familiar with SW yet.

I think he is planning on 2500 and building into Apocalypse. In Apocalypse I can deal with him, but 2500pts and foc restrictions thats another story.

At 2500 why not take 3 helldrakes, or 6 with double FOC. And throw in Huron for infiltrate with a land raider and something scary.

Take 6 Heldrakes and cook the git.

Running 4 baleflamers and 2 hades ideally.

I was thinking of something along the lines of infiltrating something for disruption. I was thinking Khorne Berzerkers or Terminators in the land raider.

As mentioned, helldrakes will do a great job vs SW.
IG are less effected by them due to vendettas and cheaper troops. A helldrake is not going to do squad to a blob.

So you will want to bring some anti-air to strike at his flyers, and you want to have the tools to crack his flyer defense.
One great tool are oblits on top of a bastion and havocs in a bastion. Give the havocs ye-old autocannons and your fine. Use them to shoot at hydras.

Don't bring a quad gun on the bastion, bring a comm-relay. You don't want your helldrakes sitting out until turn 4, and you can bet he will have a officer of the fleet to lower your reserve rolls to 4+. You need your helldrakes to come in mass. Not trickle in.

For troops, you can grab a squad or two of cheap cultists for backfield objective camping. Then you want to load up on MEQ. You want to go Slaanesh or Nurgle. One blaster master for every 5 models is F'ing nasty. Plague marines tough as adamantie nails. I would bring four squads of 10 of those, stick em in rhinos and put them behind an aegis for a 4+ cover. Bring a havoc launcher on each rhino as well, those are suprisingly good.

Then you need something to effect his troops and contest his objectives. I would suggest the following.
* Land Raider full of termies and abbadon
* Daemon allies (screamers and flamers oh my!)

A final option you have is to take Epedemius. Hide him in a bastion, wait for your tally count to hit 15, then walk across the board with a 3+ FNP and mow his army down.

 Wingeds wrote:
Hydra is meh, Quad Gun is easily roasted by bale flamer..

That's not a good chance. You have a 5+ to wound the quad gun. Your much better vector striking the quad gun.

Heldrakes. They roast MEQ and guardsmen alike.

Then, against almost everything (well, that's lie. against everything, period), I like plague marines. The package these guys come with is very good for the price : E5, FNP, plague knives, 2 special weapons / squad. I wish you could put jetpacks on them. Wait, you nearly can : I use a unit of plague bikers, led by a lord with brand of skaralax.

As another tip, I'd use fast moving units to charge the most dangerous units as soon in the game as possible. Huron + infiltrated raptors / bikers comes into mind.

Bikers can't infiltrate with good old Huron. Only infantry models. Anyway, Heldrakes are the solution. Just make sure you pop his vendettas early if you can.

Well my buddy doesn't really believe in fliers. He hasn't expressed any interest in ANY flier for ANY army. From what he was explaining, he wants to go total defense. Max Long Fangs, with Leman Russ, a couple Hydras, ADL, a CCS with MoO. His strategy is to try and make me come to him, then obliterate anything that gets in range.

hmmmm.....well, then I suppose you know what to do. Pop the Hydras (should be doable for CSM AT) and smoke the Long Fangs when you get the 'drakes in.

 l0k1 wrote:
His list isn't worked out yet, but he intends on running a defense line with quad gun nd hyrdas for AA support. A fleet of Heldrakes might go down pretty quick.

Quadguns do jack to Heldrakes. Simiarly, hydras don't have interceptor so you can take them out before his turn. That's 2 turns to ensure that a quadgun and a few av:12 vehicles are gone.

What you should be scared of is vendettas. Although with a 5+ invulnerable and IWD, you should be alright with enough drakes.

it's against lists like this that make me glad we have heldrakes. They are really the only option for CSM dealing with dug-in units like this.

Mmmm, treating terrain as difficult doesn't really matter for deep strike, sure, you need to take a test if you land on the 24" radius but is you get a wound on 1's, with 6th you can now save that wound so an oblie will need to get 2 1's in a row to take a wound, and still that wouldn't kill him so... I wouldn't be affraid of deepstriking oblies behind his lines