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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/502018.page

Above is a list I have played recently and it has yet to lose a raider and has taken down necrons/csm, IG/SW, and another dark angels build already. So it brings up the question. Does the new dark angels book bring back land raider spam as a viable tactic? Thoughts??? So far the list is undefeated a perfect 7-0 and has yet to lose more then one land raider in a game.(3-0 vs SW, 2-0 vs Necrons/CSM,1-0 vs Dark Eldar, 1-0 vs Dark Angels)

A battle report against space wolves:

HIS LIST:

It was a hard fought game and with 5 objectives it was a challenge. i managed to win 2 obj to 1 obj and I also claimed slay the warlord and first blood. The deathwing terminators and DW vehicle were the only major casualties. The list is still undefeated. That 4++ save was hot tonight.

HQ: Wolf Lord in Power Armour (3#, 295 pts)
. . 1 Wolf Lord in Power Armour (Storm Shield + Thunder Hammer + Runic Armour + Wolf Tail Talisman + Wolftooth Necklace + Thunderwolf Mount + Saga of the Bear)
. . . . 2 Fenrisian Wolf

Fast Attack: Thunderwolf Cavalry (2#, 175 pts)
. . 1 Thunderwolf Cavalry
. . . . 1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Storm Shield + Power Sword)
. . . . 1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Storm Shield)

HQ: Rune Priest in Power Armour (1#, 110 pts)
. . 1 Rune Priest in Power Armour + Chooser of the Slain

HQ: Rune Priest in Power Armour (1#, 100 pts)
. . 1 Rune Priest in Power Armour

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (9#, 190 pts)
. . 8 Grey Hunters Pack (Mark of the Wulfen + Wolf Standard + Plasma gun)
. . . . 1 Rhino

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (9#, 185 pts)
. . 8 Grey Hunters Pack (Mark of the Wulfen + Wolf Standard + Meltagun)
. . . . 1 Rhino

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (6#, 150 pts)
. . 5 Grey Hunters Pack (Flamer)
. . . . 1 Razorback (Twin-Linked Lascannon)

Elite: Wolf Guard Pack (3#, 119 pts)
. . 1 Wolf Guard Pack
. . . . 1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Plasmagun + Wolf Claw)
. . . . 1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun + Power Fist)
. . . . 1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Plasma Pistol + Power Sword)

Heavy Support: Long Fangs Pack (6#, 170 pts)
. . 5 Long Fangs Pack (Lascannon x2 + Missile Launcher x3)
. . . . 1 Squad Leader

Heavy Support: Long Fangs Pack (6#, 160 pts)
. . 5 Long Fangs Pack (Missile Launcher x3 + Plasma Cannon x2)
. . . . 1 Squad Leader

Heavy Support: Whirlwind (1#, 95 pts)
. . 1 Whirlwind (Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter)

: Aegis Defence Lines (2#, 100 pts)
. . 1 Aegis Defence Lines
. . . . 1 Gun Emplacement (Quad-gun)


Image Description:
Night fight turn 1. Space wolves go first and immobilize one of their own rhino's on the ADL. He moves to adjust his army to my deployment of all left flank. Night fight prevents anything really from happening. I advance a total of 18" with all 4 land raiders to close the distance.

Image Description:
SW Turn 2: He cast divination on long fangs.However, after all of his shooting the landraiders pass a 4++ save of a penetrate and a glance. He pulls his TWC back some as he wasnt able to charge and it would leave them exposed in front of my dakka raiders.
DA Turn 2: I move up some with 3 of the landraiders and pivot the middle land raider to shoot his long fangs they all die in the ensuing shooting phase. The other raiders target the rhino with the melta and combi melta in it and mange to wreck it.

Image Description:
SW turn 3: He decides to advance the TWC now as his troops are exposed. He manages to repair his immobilized rhino. His shooting again causes no damage because the pen that makes it through gets saved and the 2 lances also get saved(The 4++ was kind of hot this game). DA turn 3: I decide to just pivot and bring the full weight of fire to bare. I POTMS a MM at his newly working rhino but fail to penetrate. I manage to cause 2 wounds to his lord and 1 to another TWC. The raiders caused over 20 wounds on his grey hunters so they went to ground to save them. He pretty much had no choice and this at least keeps the dangerous melta off of me.

Image Description:
SW turn 4: His rhino up top advances towards the top objective and pops smoke. His shooting finally brings down the deathwing landraider (he had immobolized it and I had him re-roll and it exploded... should of let it stick but TWC looked hungry). Speaking of TWC they charge what remains of the deathwing terminators after his army kills 2 more. They manage to lock combat with 1 DWT still alive (*Face Palm*).
DA turn 4: I move backwards wanting nothing to do with the TWC and realizing I am gonna have to claim these objectives soon. My top raider POTMS an assault cannon at the rhino up top but he makes a pen save but a glance goes through. I POTMS an assault cannon at his razorback and immobilize it this time. MY DWT dies in combat and the wolves consolidate towards my TAC raider

SW Turn 5: His top rhino turns sideways and disembarks the squad on that objective. His grey hunters move up some on the bottom and the ones in his backfield move over a little to secure his home objective. He manages to shoot and glance the TAC land raider once. The TWC charge the TAC land raider but do no damage.
DA Turn 5: I have a tough choice to either stay in raiders or get out just in case game ends. I decide to get out as I think the threat level to them is low as long as I can kill his TWC. The Librarian jumps out of his raider to run over and contest his middle objective. Both tactical squads disembark onto objectives. The bottom squad shoots at the TWC along with the land raider and finally they fall to weight of dice. The top tac squad runs as they cant shoot over 12".

We roll to see if game continues and it does not.
Game ends: Me contesting 1 of his objectives and and claiming two of my own. In addition, I capture slay the warlord, and first blood. DA- VP 8 SW- VP 3 We played out what he would of done next turn but the game still ended in a DA victory.

Post Game AAR: I have always hated fighting against Wolf Lords and this match-up renewed that hatred. Had their not been a challenge in the DWT combat he would of wiped them all. It was a smart move by my opponent. He held the wolf lord back longer then he should of though. However, I can understand not wanting him to expose him needlessly. I finally lost my first land raider. My opponent said if he could change anything he would of played back hiding from them more until he needed to jump on objectives. Either way it was a GG and the DA Raider Spam remains undefeated still.

Not really, you just played against people without sufficient anti-tank weapons.

 Peregrine wrote:
Not really, you just played against people without sufficient anti-tank weapons.

People only have so many ways to bring down AV14. If you take away those means then you can not longer be killed.

The Space wolves/IG player had

2 units of space wolves with 2 plasma each one was in drop pod other in rhino
2 units of space wolves with 2 melta each one was in drop pod other in rhino.
1 Multi-Melta dread in drop pod
1 Dread with PC
1 vindicator
1 predator with las sponsons
5 long fangs with missle launchers
2 rune priest with lightning
1 allied vendetta with a 3xmelta vet squad inside

I would say his list had plenty of anti-tank weaponry. Its just when he could damage the landraiders the list is built with a 4+ invul save.

Is the power field generator a cover or invo and does it work in cc?

 schadenfreude wrote:
Is the power field generator a cover or invo and does it work in cc?

Its an invul save.

A model with a power field generator, and all models (friendly and enemy) within 3" of a model with a power field generator, have a 4+ invulnerable save.


The issue is a lot of people use plasma instead of melta now with it being +1 on the damage table and it having a better range.

As a Necron player, I certainly hope so.

The 4+ invo makes it viable, but is it only a 3" range?

Biggest potential problems I see are max wraith double dlord crons, gk terminator spam pallied or gk termies, nids spamming crushing claw tervigons, and Tzeentch deamon spam.

Against most lists it will probably work because of limited vulnerable units that can hurt a land raiderl

 schadenfreude wrote:
Biggest potential problems I see are max wraith double dlord crons, gk terminator spam pallied or gk termies, nids spamming crushing claw tervigons, and Tzeentch deamon spam.

Or mech IG with Manticores and/or Medusas. With everything having to stay within 3" you pretty much can't miss with the blast weapons, and all that STR 10 (or better) ordnance is going to make Land Raiders cry. Meanwhile the DA has nothing with better than 24" range, and very limited shooting that can even roll dice against AV 12 (that nice expensive banner is completely wasted).

 Peregrine wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Biggest potential problems I see are max wraith double dlord crons, gk terminator spam pallied or gk termies, nids spamming crushing claw tervigons, and Tzeentch deamon spam.

Or mech IG with Manticores and/or Medusas. With everything having to stay within 3" you pretty much can't miss with the blast weapons, and all that STR 10 (or better) ordnance is going to make Land Raiders cry. Meanwhile the DA has nothing with better than 24" range, and very limited shooting that can even roll dice against AV 12 (that nice expensive banner is completely wasted).

Demolishers are another big threat. Their range sucks, but their s10 ordinance blast is ap2.

While it's an Anvil list... isn't it more difficult to play considering the new mission types?

As a lot of people have said in various times and places, redundancy is a killer and any exploitation of force multipliers is going to get you very far.

If the list has a theme and exploits each piece of wargear (dev banner and PFG), then it's legit.

DA didn't bring back Land Raider spam, I'm not sure anything is going to turn buying 4 $70 models into a trend, I don't even want to buy 1 LR at that price, but I'm sure those that do will have a better time of it. If a 4+ save on AV14 worked back when Orks were doing it, I see no reason it shouldn't be the bees knees on Land Raiders. God's sake, that is a brutal list.

The thing is, you're going to throw off a lot of people who think a couple of Meltaguns is sufficient. And that's going to be a lot of people. Potentially a steamroller in a competitive environment. If nothing else, it should be there just to keep the competitive community on its toes and prevent it from getting too comfortable.

Like you said, he didn't lose. When he does, post the list that they won against and we'll talk about it then.

As others have said, I can see you either steam rolling lists or them doing the same to you. Either win big or lose big IMO. You only have 2 scoring units, so you better pound them hard.

 Billagio wrote:
As others have said, I can see you either steam rolling lists or them doing the same to you. Either win big or lose big IMO. You only have 2 scoring units, so you better pound them hard.

4 scoring units after combat squads.

The original list was Belial deathwing but I found the extra points were not needed as I had yet to find a situation where I had to get out of the transport.

If you tailor a list to beat this then you might pull it off. However, can that same list handle the other builds out their? I see guard as the biggest threat. I already faced wraiths with a destroyer lord. After they died my opponent didnt really have much left to take me out and called the game. He has tesla though instead of gauss on his immortals(which were running from me either way).

My competitive guard list these days only has 4 melta in it and a manticore that could reliably threaten AV14. If I lose those then I would be just stuck taking the beatings. Someone ran heldrakes on me. It flew overhead helplessly unable to damage the raiders. This list is designed to go 2nd. Especially in objective games.

The list doesn't seem bad, but there are a few things that I noticed. The first is that the list has very few ways of dealing with armor themselves. You have 5 Terminators (whom I assume have either fists or hammers, making them S8) and 4 Multi-meltas. Any list that brings a lot of armor above 10 is going to have a field day against you. You are also weak to fliers. While some fliers either lack the punch or are stuck with AV10, Vendettas and Doom Scythes will have a field day with your armor. Heck, even Night Scythes can just keep out of your way until you are forced to disgorge your Tactical squads, which they then go to work destroying. Also, necrons seem like they may be prolematic. Stormteks can appear out of nowhere and even with an Invulnerable save can wreck havok on a vehicle. Scarab Farm is probably the most direct counter to your list, as they can simply do their best to hide out of line of sight (which isn't that difficult for a scarab base) and then rush in and turn your Land Raider into an oversized cardboard box after a rainy day. Tau will also mess you up, as what Tau list at 1850 isn't packing 3x3 broadsides?

< Taken by the void dragon. >

 Che-Vito wrote:
What exactly would your TAC list have to handle that effectively?

Nine Broadsides.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

RegalPhantom wrote:
The list doesn't seem bad, but there are a few things that I noticed. The first is that the list has very few ways of dealing with armor themselves. You have 5 Terminators (whom I assume have either fists or hammers, making them S8) and 4 Multi-meltas. Any list that brings a lot of armor above 10 is going to have a field day against you. You are also weak to fliers. While some fliers either lack the punch or are stuck with AV10, Vendettas and Doom Scythes will have a field day with your armor. Heck, even Night Scythes can just keep out of your way until you are forced to disgorge your Tactical squads, which they then go to work destroying. Also, necrons seem like they may be prolematic. Stormteks can appear out of nowhere and even with an Invulnerable save can wreck havok on a vehicle. Scarab Farm is probably the most direct counter to your list, as they can simply do their best to hide out of line of sight (which isn't that difficult for a scarab base) and then rush in and turn your Land Raider into an oversized cardboard box after a rainy day. Tau will also mess you up, as what Tau list at 1850 isn't packing 3x3 broadsides?

Yea that is one drawback is the lack of anti-mech in return but the MM have dont pretty well as of yet especially when I get into double tap range. The Assault cannons have been hit or miss but do ok against 10-12 armor. Vendetta's still need a 5 to glance and a 6 to pen. In addition, I get a 4+ invul. My main idea was to ignore just about every flier except the doom scythe. If you would like to see this list in action I can show you how it works on vassal. Its under estimated. Not many things can do enough damage. 50% of what you can do can be saved with the invul.

It is a very interesting list I just hope you don't run into a manticore/vendetta spam list.

People might actually start running multiple vanquisher lists if this list gets too popular.

I personally see manticores out of LOS as the greatest bane to your list and they really aren't that uncommon in IG TAC lists. If some points could be squeezed out to allow you to take out these sorts of units that would probably help alot.

doomscythe is biggest thing I see since it'll hit pretty much all the tanks since they are so bunched up.

I also have an acolyte build with GK that has a squad of 12 meltabomb suicide squad to take down MC's and LR's It's only 108 points!

Still kind of tough to take down 4++ invul though I'll give you that.

For volume of hits vs a land raider with invul would probably be something like GK dread knight with sword or D.Lord and scythe for the necrons. Really makes me like them seige guns at least.

But ya, for a fairly standard opponent without too much AV 14 popping abilities, it's gonna be hard to handle. Lascannons just don't work.

On the flip side, our local meta has 2 DE players with a crap ton of lances and venom spam, void bomber too, it'd probably eat this land raider rush even with the invul.

Well, LR spam is a viable option since the 6th ed is semi-mech and so armies bring less anti-tank to bear these days.

Well its a rock list, well suited to ETC style play where you can throw it out as a difficult to deal with army, but there are heaps of very common hard counters to this among the top tier builds which makes it sub par for a standard tournament list (i.e I expect you to get at least 4 wins, but in a reasonable sized field you will hit your counter list which means you probably won't win the tournament). For me the biggest issue is that it is forced to stay bunched together and nothing has any real range, your opponent will have complete control of the board and you will have to try and force him off objectives late. As with any low model count army you will struggle as soon as things start to go wrong - someone immbolising your Power Field/Banner Land Raider (which btw they might as well shoot even if its hiding at the back since 4+ invun is better than 5+ cover anyway) cripples you.

Some common power builds that could handle this easily;
Daemons - Flamers will hit multiple Land Raiders at once and easily burn you to death and Screamers and MCs hurt when they get to you (and they will get to you). You have no real way to project power as everything has to stay bunched together and has limited range, so you wouldn't even be able to threaten the usually minimalistic scoring units.
Nids - With basically no ability to deal with flying MCs the common 2 Flyrants 2+ Tervigon lists will have a field day, the Tyrants will reliably hit you turn 2 and the psychically buffed Tervigons will follow up and box you in with Gaunts.
Necrons - Wraiths can still eat Land Raiders thanks to Rending and the Destroyer Lords hurt them badly + will tank most of the bolter wounds on the way in. Lists without the D Lords will probably have at least a couple of Storm Crypteks which melt away any vehicle around when combined with standard Gauss weapons. You will also occasionally run into Scarabs and other units which can eat through your armour or glance you to death.
IG - a good Mech Guard list will easily beat this even if it doesn't kill the Land Raiders (and with 3 Vendettas and at least one Manticore being pretty common I would expect to kill at least one over the course of a game). Since you aren't going to punch your way through Chimeras very quickly the Guard player can basically surround you with them and force you to kill them in order to get anywhere, which probably gives the Guard player the game since they should get the bulk of the objectives.
Tau - despite the Mathhammer above Tau should still do ok against this list. With AP1 a single Railgun getting through has a 50% chance of getting a kill, and further 1/3 chance of crippling your list in some way (stunning or immobilising a Raider means you either stay where you are or leave it behind to die next turn). 6 Railguns (a more sane number for a TAC list, allowing for a Railhead or 3 x 2 config) has ~50% chance of doing meaningful damage per turn, and since you have nothing that will be threatening them that damage over 6 turns easily drops a couple of Land Raiders.

Battlewagon + deffrolla spam could hurt this list too.

Strong list, for sure. It's not quite versatile enough for my tastes though. I've been contemplating power field + Crusader + dakka banner myself, and came to the conclusion that I preferred more, and cheaper, vehicles, for versatility's sake.

By the way, I'd give the Librarian an auspex which is too good to be left home.

I like the idea and I hope it keeps pounding dudes away!

Armies that could be a problem!

1. Necrons - Simply put, that list is almost an auto-win for most decent cron players. Just walk up with a warrior blob or two and eat the list alive. Even with bad cover they will be pouring as many shots on you as you will on them and they can stand back up. Those land raiders will be gone for good when they're gone.

2. Dark Eldar - Again, here's an army that really doesnt shrug a low model count high AV army. The lack of AV12 spam will like a christmas miracle to them! They can pour Dark Lances on your raiders and have the tools to nerf your range called night shields, something that many DE players take now in 6th.

3. Tau - Not as hard to fight as the two above, but they can still kill a land raider with decent ease.

 BeefCakeSoup wrote:
I like the idea and I hope it keeps pounding dudes away!

Armies that could be a problem!

1. Necrons - Simply put, that list is almost an auto-win for most decent cron players. Just walk up with a warrior blob or two and eat the list alive. Even with bad cover they will be pouring as many shots on you as you will on them and they can stand back up. Those land raiders will be gone for good when they're gone.

2. Dark Eldar - Again, here's an army that really doesnt shrug a low model count high AV army. The lack of AV12 spam will like a christmas miracle to them! They can pour Dark Lances on your raiders and have the tools to nerf your range called night shields, something that many DE players take now in 6th.

3. Tau - Not as hard to fight as the two above, but they can still kill a land raider with decent ease.

Just played against a dark eldar list that had 3 void raven bombers and several lance weapons including the trueborn lance package. The list actually held up pretty well. I lost my first land raider I believe on turn 3. Though he was vector dancing with his fliers all game and on turn 5 we realized they didnt have vector dancer. It was bottom of five so I just moved over and contested his objective he had and had mine and we called it there. With the change in his fliers constantly having angles on me no telling what the result would of been like as they were the main threat with S9 lance.

 Tomb King wrote:
However, can that same list handle the other builds out their? I see guard as the biggest threat. I already faced wraiths with a destroyer lord.

Daemons will tear it to shreds.
* FMC's smashing will crush the land raiders.
* 9 flamers will crush one land raider a turn (outside of the 4++ zone)
* Screamers will tear open land raiders.

That would not be a big issue, were not deamons one of the best codex's out today.

I would think that DE would be able to kite your list really well, as some had mentioned before. Even a DE TAC list has fast lances in it somewhere, which could easily zoom around you stripping hull points and getting the occasional pen while staying out of your 24" range. That's your biggest hang up I think.

Dark Lances would probably be perfect for this list. You'd have high mobility and a greater range, and they can put so many damn lances on their vehicles it's nuts.

Just one army, though.