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I'm pretty sure that Always means Always, not just when it's convenient.

You always wound on a 4+, regardless of Toughness. That means your opponents Toughness never comes into the question, and thus neither does your Strength. 4+ all day, everyday.

You also would lose your Str 6 vs vehicles, due to the wording of Sniper.

HawkeyeStryker wrote:
I did read the rule and it says it "Always Wounds on a To Wound roll of 4+ coma! reguardless of targets toughness. This means that even if you go against a, lets say, Dreadknight, like I did, I can still wound as long as I get a 4 or better. See it ALWAYS wounds on a 4+ but doesnt mean that it ONLY wounds on 4+.

The underlined is the part that you are missing:

"if a weapon has the Sniper special rule, or is fired by a model with the Sniper special rule, its shooting attacks always wound on a To Wound roll of 4+, regardless of the victim's Toughness.

So we all agree that Sniper Drones arent really Sniper units and thus suck donkey balls as a Heavy Unit? You dont even have to answer that as I know you all agreed

Just little things like that erk me. Its sad when i gotta bring in Allies for a REAL sniper team because the "Sniper" team my army fields fell off the back of a truck coming from Thailand. SMH.....

Does the Sniper Drone have the Sniper rule? or its weapon? if not, then what changed?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Does the Sniper Drone have the Sniper rule? or its weapon? if not, then what changed?

No, it doesn't. Nothing has changed. The conversation became something of a hypothetical "What if they did?", in which the consensus was that they'd probably get worse.

HawkeyeStryker wrote:
So we all agree that Sniper Drones arent really Sniper units and thus suck donkey balls as a Heavy Unit? You dont even have to answer that as I know you all agreed

And Fire Dragons are not really dragons, Heavy Flamers are not really Heavy weapons, Assault Cannons are not really assault weapons...

 Peregrine wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
However the Sniper Rule can apply to the model as well as the weapon. When applied to the model you get to allocate the hit when you roll a 6 to hit regardless of the weapon.

And then you also wound on a 4+ instead of a 2+ (against most targets) like rail rifles currently do. Whether the Sniper rule is on the character or the weapon makes no difference.

Weird, for some reason it seemed to me like a model with the sniper rule only benefited from the precision strike.

BLUF: No they don't have the sniper rule and that is the only thing that makes them worth taking. They aren't tank hunters and they aren't heavy infantry hunter. They are medium infantry hunters and do their job almost 3.5 times better than a Sniper weapon. As for killing Terminators, they fair the exact same at a 9% chance of taking one out. They are worse at killing T6 MCs but sniper weapons still only have a 15% chance so...

Let’s be honest with ourselves. The sniper special rule sucks. It has no AP and only ever wounds on a 4+.
Sniper Drones not having the sniper rule makes them more effective in almost every way aside from extreme luck.

They are S6 AP3 so you have to get to T7 before you start wounding on something higher than 4+.
Sniper weapons only ever wound on a 4+ and have no AP.

They ID T3 models and wound MEQs on a 2+ and AP them on every shot.
Sniper weapons can only AP on a 6 to wound but it is AP 2. However, rending is a 1/32 chance vs a 100% chance for AP3.

Sniper Drones still cause pinning and although they are heavy weapons drones have the relentless rule so they can move and shoot.


They are long range medium infantry killers and are the only thing in the codex that fills that role. All other long range shots are heavy infantry, light infantry or anti-vehicle.

However, it's for 80 points for a 4 man unit that can die to one non-blast/template shot... They aren't a good unit.

Firstly lets stop comparing them to broadsides, If you are looking at sniper drones its presumably because you feel you have enough anti tank.

A better comparison would probably be to a ionhead, personally if i could afford it i would take the tank but sometimes that 50ish point difference might be better spent elsewhere. Tetras anyone?

HawkeyeStryker wrote:


haha I'm talking about a Broadside TEAM (up to 3 broadsides in a unit) as compared to a complete unit of sniper drones which i believe is 9 rail rifles. I'd rather take the Broadside Team. Wasnt trying to make a Godside with his Godweapons lmao.

And yes, the USR is what I was trying to convey, not the type of weapon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

barnowl wrote:

 Nathemo wrote:

HawkeyeStryker wrote:
"Hmmm...3 TL Rail Rifles (damn they cant use submunitions anymore but still!) with 3 twin linked Smart Missile Systems that can deep strike

Broadsides with:
-TL rail rifles?
-TL smart missile systems?
-Deep strike?

Forgive me if I've missed a joke or wish list in this thread but lolwut?

However on topic, the sniper drone itself should get sniper USR, not the actual rail rifle

I think someone has been miss running Broadsides. Submunitions? They have never had them.

@the misuse of Broadsides: I only made that comment because EVEN THOUGH its stated in the Codex that the Vehicle Mounted Railguns could fire the submunition, Games Workshop just added an FAQ just this month that had to apparently Clarify that even further by saying the same thing?

Im going to give benefit of the doubt and hope your not a troll.

Regardless of whether its a lone broadside or a team, you dont have their rules right which I suggest you read up on.

Well your comment did make it sound like youve been playing them with sub-munitions.....and the reason for the FAQ about sub-munitions is because people cant get the rules right and ask silly questions which GW feel the need to respond to, even though the answer lies within the codex.

I agree that it is bad to compare them to broadsides anyway as they fill different roles.

The codex say no such thing, in fact, it specifically states that the submunitions may only be fired by the hammerhead. The problem was that when 6e came out, it said that the weapon profiles in the BRB overrule the profiles in the codex, if different, and they only listed one profile. Some people decided to try to take this, as well as other problems with the new core book, as free game to do silly things. I'm glad they FAQ'd it and settled the argument.

Broadside SMS are not twin linked. They cannot fire submunitions, nor can they deep strike.

Back on topic:

SDT have a role of MEQ hunting and area denial to hoards through pinning.

Could they accomplish those roles with the sniper rule? Yes, but not nearly as well.

Since the SDT can already split fire, the only advantage to them having sniper would be precise shot, which would be a marginal use compared to the failing they would receive.

This is all, of course, in context to their current most useful roles as defined above.

If they had the Sniper USR, they would probably be relegated to MC hunting, but I have enough MC hunters.

I use my SDT a lot. Like, a LOT. My standard high points HS section is a Hammer Head, a Broadside team, and a SDT. This is due to often playing a Farsight army. In low points games, especially with restrictions on vehicle armour, I always take them.

 Kwosge wrote:

Sniper Drones still cause pinning and although they are heavy weapons drones have the relentless rule so they can move and shoot.

Eh? Sniper Drones are infantry not Jet Pack, so they're not relentless. Or have I missed something?

Cheers

Andrew

If i truly wanted to field an MEQ unit, I'd much rather take Vespids. I never needed to use them until my buddy fielded 10 of them and with the new assault rule, they pretty much are SM killers. Take 4 for 10 points less than the SDT. You dont get the 2+ cover save in terrain like trenches (which rocks, but I do this with my stealth suits), you dont get target lock nor a network marker light (the cons). But the good thing is it has the same AP as the Rail Rifle and now you have a fast attack unit that can JSJ and annoy the hell out of marines while not allowing them to get an armor save.

Now that I know the pro's and cons of "scout" special rule, how about give the SDT Precision Shot and NOW they are effectively a sniping unit without changing anything. Problem solved

And as far as Sniping Weapons not having AP, thats totally not true at all. It says it wounds on a 4+ regardless of toughness when TAKING WOUND ROLLS. The actual "sniper rifle" has an AP6, but there are some weapons that have the sniper type attached that have awesome AP. Look up Exitus Rifle or Hexrifle...

Except the vespid blaster has one less strength 12" range on a unit that cannot JSJ and has a 5+ save.

Vespid are serious contenders for the worst unit in the game.

Sniper Drones would be good for Big Guns Never Tire mission. 3 Sniper Drone teams to one Heavy Support FoC. FAQ allows them to score in Big Guns Never Tire. 2+ Cover Save in terrain. Attach Shas'el Warlord with ASS, giving them Slow and Purposeful.

 spears wrote:
Except the vespid blaster has one less strength 12" range on a unit that cannot JSJ and has a 5+ save.

Vespid are serious contenders for the worst unit in the game.

Nah, pretty sure Pyrovore have them beat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Sniper Drones would be good for Big Guns Never Tire mission. 3 Sniper Drone teams to one Heavy Support FoC. FAQ allows them to score in Big Guns Never Tire. 2+ Cover Save in terrain. Attach Shas'el Warlord with ASS, giving them Slow and Purposeful.

That is not a terrible idea. The Shas'el then picks up the 2+ cover. Make it a Deathrain build with BSF, and you have decent little long range unit.

barnowl wrote:

 spears wrote:
Except the vespid blaster has one less strength 12" range on a unit that cannot JSJ and has a 5+ save.

Vespid are serious contenders for the worst unit in the game.

Nah, pretty sure Pyrovore have them beat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Sniper Drones would be good for Big Guns Never Tire mission. 3 Sniper Drone teams to one Heavy Support FoC. FAQ allows them to score in Big Guns Never Tire. 2+ Cover Save in terrain. Attach Shas'el Warlord with ASS, giving them Slow and Purposeful.

That is not a terrible idea. The Shas'el then picks up the 2+ cover. Make it a Deathrain build with BSF, and you have decent little long range unit.

Heh yeah cant argue with that.

Do the teams count for 1 kp each though? That could be a pain

 Nathemo wrote:

HawkeyeStryker wrote:
"Hmmm...3 TL Rail Rifles (damn they cant use submunitions anymore but still!) with 3 twin linked Smart Missile Systems that can deep strike

Broadsides with:
-TL rail rifles?
-TL smart missile systems?
-Deep strike?

Forgive me if I've missed a joke or wish list in this thread but lolwut?

However on topic, the sniper drone itself should get sniper USR, not the actual rail rifle

Weirdly, he was wrong on every part of this entry.

Twin-linked Railgun
A smart missile system (Not twin-linked)
Is classified as an Infantry model (So it can't jump move, thrust move or deep strike)

Makes me wonder who he plays against that's cheating so much... :-)

Sadly, Tau have atleast THREE units that are contenders for the worst unit in the game. Vespid. Ethereal and Aun'va - the SUPER Ethereal fail head.

Giving SDT the 'Precision shot' special rule would be a marginal improvement over them. I still think they're overcosted for what they do already.

 Celtic Strike wrote:

Makes me wonder who he plays against that's cheating so much... :-)

Sorry to tell you this, but from his thread on Seeker Missiles vs. Flyers it's him who plays Tau.

Chrysis wrote:

 Celtic Strike wrote:

Makes me wonder who he plays against that's cheating so much... :-)

Sorry to tell you this, but from his thread on Seeker Missiles vs. Flyers it's him who plays Tau.

Awwwwww...

 spears wrote:

barnowl wrote:

 spears wrote:
Except the vespid blaster has one less strength 12" range on a unit that cannot JSJ and has a 5+ save.

Vespid are serious contenders for the worst unit in the game.

Nah, pretty sure Pyrovore have them beat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Sniper Drones would be good for Big Guns Never Tire mission. 3 Sniper Drone teams to one Heavy Support FoC. FAQ allows them to score in Big Guns Never Tire. 2+ Cover Save in terrain. Attach Shas'el Warlord with ASS, giving them Slow and Purposeful.

That is not a terrible idea. The Shas'el then picks up the 2+ cover. Make it a Deathrain build with BSF, and you have decent little long range unit.

Heh yeah cant argue with that.

Do the teams count for 1 kp each though? That could be a pain

Yup, it would be 2 KP, which could potential hurt.

barnowl wrote:
Yup, it would be 2 KP, which could potential hurt.

I think he meant does each Sniper Drone Team count as a kill point even though you can take three of them as one Heavy Slot.
Which is yes, a kill point per team killed regardless of how many slots it takes up in the FOC

Just with you saying 'yup, it would be 2 KP' might be confusing ><

why not make a troop choice out of them like the damn marines.?????

I sometimes think the Tau need Drone and Auxilliary slots in their FOC in addition to the usuals. A lot of their stuff really doesn't fit what it should be.

That being said, the sniper drone team does make sense as a heavy Support Choice of sorts as it really isn't objective capable and instead is about killing marines and light vehicles.

The ones that should be troops are the Pathfinders.

This is the rule Sniper drones need. From the HH FAQ:

"Q: Can you tell me how the Sniper rule applies to the Legion Veteran Tactical squad (if it is
chosen as an option) and the Vigilator?
A: All of the shooting attacks made by these units gain the ability to inflict Precision Shots (see page
63 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook) if they did not already do so. In addition, all of the model’s
shooting attacks never need greater than a 4+ to wound their targets, regardless of their weapon’s
relative Strength and their target’s Toughness. Note that if they would normally need less than 4+ to
wound thanks to their weapon’s Strength, the better To Wound roll is still used. (So a Melta gun fired
at a Space Marine by a Tactical Veteran with the Sniper special rule still only needs a 2+ to wound
regardless for example). Other special rules for the weapon they are using remain unchanged."

barnowl wrote:
This is the rule Sniper drones need. From the HH FAQ:

"Q: Can you tell me how the Sniper rule applies to the Legion Veteran Tactical squad (if it is
chosen as an option) and the Vigilator?
A: All of the shooting attacks made by these units gain the ability to inflict Precision Shots (see page
63 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook) if they did not already do so. In addition, all of the model’s
shooting attacks never need greater than a 4+ to wound their targets, regardless of their weapon’s
relative Strength and their target’s Toughness. Note that if they would normally need less than 4+ to
wound thanks to their weapon’s Strength, the better To Wound roll is still used. (So a Melta gun fired
at a Space Marine by a Tactical Veteran with the Sniper special rule still only needs a 2+ to wound
regardless for example). Other special rules for the weapon they are using remain unchanged."

Wow that would be an awesome edition to them. I'd field these guys in a heartbeat if that wasz the case!