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 lord_blackfang wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 Laughing Man wrote:
Don't think there's anything that went up in price when switching to plastic. Most everything stayed the same price per box, but shifted to a five or ten man box, instead of three or six.

I think the worst I've heard of is Winterguard Rifle Corps which remain $50 after switching to plastic, which is most odd because the thirteen man Winterguard Infantry is also $50 despite having three more guys than the ten man Rifle Corps.

The Prime 'jacks certainly went up in cost at the switch to plastic, the Cryx one went up 25%.

To be fair, my Legion Carnivean-body warbeasts went from $40 for a block of pewter so heavy you could bludgeon a baby to death with it (and correspondingly chip like all hell) to $35 for the 3-in-1 kit. I think they just standardized the costs of the heavy kits across all factions without worrying about the individual particulars.

Hobby Quest Games in Longmont Colorado.

back home, the FLGS didn't have much anything in terms of warhammer, a few 40k players but MTG and yugioh were the truly dominant forces there
the only quasi-gaming store is a comic book store which MTG is very often played, and where I get the MLP comics lol (and blind bags, oddly enough)

PhantomViper wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 Laughing Man wrote:
Don't think there's anything that went up in price when switching to plastic. Most everything stayed the same price per box, but shifted to a five or ten man box, instead of three or six.

I think the worst I've heard of is Winterguard Rifle Corps which remain $50 after switching to plastic, which is most odd because the thirteen man Winterguard Infantry is also $50 despite having three more guys than the ten man Rifle Corps.

The Prime 'jacks certainly went up in cost at the switch to plastic, the Cryx one went up 25%.

Yup.

That is because PP doesn't do yearly price updates so you were actually paying 2003 prices for metal models instead of 2012 prices. If you would compare older metal warjacks with newer ones the price difference was ridiculous for no apparent reason!

And the plastic jacks are also bigger and come with extra parts.

Deadnight wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

You're probably right and I'm just missing it. I'm a funny set up as I work in Edinburgh but spend more free time in Glasgow, and live between the two. I've only been into a club once, locally, and the Edinburgh Games Hub twice, and most of the Hub games were 40K (there was some folk playing Dust though).

this is actually quite amusing, in a good way

you work in edinburgh, hang out in glasgow, and live in the middle of the two. Well, with all due respect mate, but get your arse over here to Livingston. there's two clubs that do warmachine in Livi alone - worlds at war on a tuesday from 2 or 3 onwards, and also at the weekend, and there is Battleground, on a friday evening/saturday morning. seems like a perfect fit for you.

i also know of some glasgow gamers - i think they play at one of the universities, but i can find the details for you without too much hassle.

Herzlos wrote:

All of the shows I've visited: Targe (kirrimuir), Carronade (Falkirk), Claymore (Edinburgh), Wappinshaw (Glasgow) have been mostly 40K and historics, but I know they are mostly run by historics clubs.

Skirmish in Livi had a warmachine tournament, and Worlds at War do a fairly frequent tournament (one a month to two months at the very least) that attracts nice numbers. We've got our two local pressgangers who do a very good job of organising things. I know more about the convention scene in Ireland where i hail from, but i get the impression they're less developed here in these pagan lands. regardless, they're probably the wrong places to be looking. Like i said, check out worlds at war and other spots.

Herzlos wrote:

I've heard of Worlds at War, and I'm not too far away but I've never actually been, so I'll need to try and find it. Are there any Edinburgh clubs handy for the city centre and not running too late?

its in craighouse, about 5 minutes from the motorway. you should go, if you're in the area - we've got a good bunch of guys and girls there. like i said, tuesdays and weekends mainly, unless you want to organise a game another evening too. and we have a facebook page - if you're interested, i'll PM it to you - its always good to get fresh victims... er players

as to ediburgh clubs, there is the hub (normally on a friday from what i hear - i normally dont play there - i work in Livi so Livi is a perfect spot for me for a post-work game) and there is also the Edinburgh League of Gamers (ELG) that meet at the RAF club on the London road (just off the very top of Leith walk, so its slap bang in the middle of the city) on wednesday evenings. feel free to turn up any time after 6.30 or 7 until about 10ish.

I was actually going to try and make it to Skirmish, but for some reason never got round to it. I'll try checking out Worlds At War, it's inside the Craigshill Mall?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Well, mos tof the stores I walk into locally are composed of the following:

1. CCGs at the counter
2. One wall of GW
3. One wall of Warmachine
4. Back wall a mix of Pathfinder, FFG Games, other Board Games, and Flames of War.

Nothing else. It seems this "renaissance" of wargames only happens on the internet.

Erm, no. All that proves is it is not happening in your area. you have no other data.

Yeah. I know. i wasn;t beign totally serious, but no one could know because I didn't put a smiley.

I think this just highlights and reinforces the idea that gaming is regional. What is going strong in one area may not be the same elsewhere. Of course, if we go high enough on the geography scale, you will start to see "overall" winners and losers.

Though people are welcome to play any GW game they want at the tables, my LGS doesn't stock or support GW games anymore (except Blood Bowl).

Besides MTG, Warmahordes is their main range, followed by Flames of War.

They've tried a couple times to get Warmahordes to take off at my FLGS, each time the items end up in the 50% off bin.

GW has a deathgrip in this region. Flames of War is probably the second best seller.

djones520 wrote:
They've tried a couple times to get Warmahordes to take off at my FLGS, each time the items end up in the 50% off bin.

GW has a deathgrip in this region. Flames of War is probably the second best seller.

Really? I'd thought Vader was still PGing over at Fantasy Books. Of course, it's been a couple years since I played down there and we also get a bunch of Illinois players here at Game Nite, so I have a hunch we're cannibalizing a lot of your local players lately...

God forbid the customers at the FLGS have to look at anything that isn't GW.

We attempted getting into WMH once. That died out quick.

God forbid I bring in a different game like blackwater gulch or even some of the board ones like SW or Dreadball.

The owner is pretty much going to keep pushing GW till people stop buying GW (not in the over pushy way like a GW store would be). He just has no interest in expanding to other lines when other lines do not sell.


That being said, there are a few people who have WMH and do play occasionally, but usually after they finishing playing a game or 2 of 40k.

My game store seems to be Magic > board games >>>war machine > GW >>>>> flames of war.

 Laughing Man wrote:

djones520 wrote:
They've tried a couple times to get Warmahordes to take off at my FLGS, each time the items end up in the 50% off bin.

GW has a deathgrip in this region. Flames of War is probably the second best seller.

Really? I'd thought Vader was still PGing over at Fantasy Books. Of course, it's been a couple years since I played down there and we also get a bunch of Illinois players here at Game Nite, so I have a hunch we're cannibalizing a lot of your local players lately...

At the old store there was a very small group who played, but in the 4.5 years I've been living here now, it's never been a thing. The group I was playing Fantasy with gave Fantasy up with 8th edition and moved on to Warmachine, but they stopped coming to the store then as well.

40K is the juggernought here. And the player base is just as strong as it ever has been. We get a lot of guys from the Missourri side for our tourneys.

Well, ignoring my local games store, that's Games Workshop, the other FLGS doesn't sell GW products. They sell other wargames but it's only a small shop and the only wargame I've seen played there was 7TV - actually I was playing it. Magic & Heroclix are the big games.

At my games club there are a vast variety of games played. Of the Wargames I would say 40K has the lead over Flames of War and various Warlord Games historicals.

I have noticed a trend at the local game store where I live. WHFB and 40K were te big guns three/four years ago. When you saw someone playing WM/H or only thing else you gave them that crazy look. Now, you still see games every night being played, but te range of game systems is rather large. WHFB, 40K, Wm, Hordes, Malifaux, and even Dystopian wars is common to see being played.

There are those purist out there tat will only play GW. They need to losen up.

I see that many UK peeps say that historicals are played whilst the States players seem to play more fictional wargames.

I live in a podunk town in Texas where there's a church for just about every block and if anyone one of the bible-thumpers saw my Chaos army, they'd go Salem Witch-Trials on my $%^. So I go to Waco to play at the Game Closet (yes, shameless advertisement for them, I know ). I got into Warmachine a few years ago and I have the first patch for the tournament season for 2007.

Everyone who played Warmachine there (which was pretty much everyone in the store) had stopped playing GW games to because of their antics and price-gouging. More than one voiced their opinion that the GW universes had stagnated. And I can see why they'd say that, 40k will never go past the 41st millenium, the weapons will never change or new ones will never be created, and hell, we don't even know what year exactly 40k or even Warhammer fantasy takes place in so you can get a feel for the passage of time in-universe.

I like the imagery in 40k and Warhammer Fantasy, but the pricing is the only real reason I don't collect them anymore. Games Workshop has seriously shot themselves in the foot this time and I believe they'll be laying off lots of workers as a result of their stupidity. I understand the price of metals, I understand the price of plastics is not much better, and yes, they have to make a profit. However, they're a company built upon the fandom of nerdy (you are, I am, just embrace it! ) individuals with not a lot of money to spare, especially in this economy. GW should have taken this into account when they priced their stuff.

Privateer Press first of all has a snappy name ("Privateer Press" just has this ring to it ) and they are very interested in what their fans have to say. I've only had one problem with a PP mini and it was promptly and curteously handled by their very professional (and very nice! ) customer support staff.

As the OP stated, the starting package is very much more affordable than what you'd pay for a GW starting army. A warcaster and two warjacks (some sets have more) is a starting set and costs (from what I can recollect) around $50 before tax. Yes, you can play an entire game with just these few pieces . Can you do that with GW games? No. No you can't. It's a much more simplified game and you'll be thanking PP that there are only a few armies to choose from.

PP games are also smaller and faster requiring you to think on the run unlike in a GW game where its all very static and clunky. They come with cards to help with quick-referencing for each model/unit and the rules are all pretty straight-forward.

I have to say that PP is where it's at. GW is quickly (through it's own fault mind you) becoming a dinosaur and losing touch with it's fans hasn't helped it's case. Should GW wish to remain a viable company well into the future, it'd better put on the brakes and get back in touch with those that helped make it what it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Srry, I tend to ramble a bit, but I'm sore over the stupidity I'm seeing in one of my favorite companies. I figured they actually cared for their fans...screw'em.

Im sorry to say this. The PP doesnt care about you. A company never cares about you. its cares about your money. It puts on the facade of caring so you will spent your money on them.

PP is where it is for being the "Anti- GW...".

They built it into thier foundation and pushed the image forward. They don't care, but they DO listen to thier fanbase and ask for feedback on units. It then forges forward and improves the whole.

I'm not a real big fan of a heck of a lot of PP's recent manuvers. Level 7 being one of thier ... oddest. But when it counts, they have strong following and positive impressions on thier Warmahordes lines.

As for "playing a game... All it takes is a jack or three, caster, and some infantry to get going. You don't actually have to "Keep up with the joneses" with all of the new units and stuff.

I started out whith them in the very begining with 2 sets. One of Cryx, the other of Cygnar. painted up the cryx right off, the other guy took a few months.

The set stayed in the closet on waiting list form painting for that time. When I finished it, and the game... continued. I didn't need a large force, and jumped right in with what I had.
No running out and trying to get the lickies and chewies, and what I had, the base box and a couple of infantry... were fine.

I didn't need to get all crazy either.

if anything, THIS was the game to give one the time to enjoy the units and painting for the painting and units sake.

So if thats a facade, keep that going, because it surew as heck makes owning a game easier when the compnay actually knows exactly what the units are and not squatting everything at every iteration of change.

Just chiming in here. The local gaming store here is
1. Warmahordes
2. 40k
3. Fantasy
4. Flames of war

Given time I think Flames of war is going to overtake both GW games or at least be tied for 2nd with 40k. Like any game it is cyclic where eventually some games will have a new following due to their releases. The Colossal and Gargantuan lines are really pushing PP right now.

I think part of the problem with GW is the uberslow releases of codices. 2 of my 3 armies have not had codices in years and one... the Black Templars ... are in danger if you ask me of getting "squatted."

I havent seen a game of fantasy played locally since shortly after 8th dropped, though there are several people who own forces, I being one of them. It is generally felt by the local player base that 8th sucks (I disagree). 40k and Warmahordes are fairly tied for popularity, there is a huge crossover between the two groups with only a few people remaining exclusive fans of one or the other, for the most part it seems warmahordes is gaining in popularity. We are currently starting up Infinity (we have a very small number of players) and Malifaux (even fewer), and we have a few Flames of War players as well (mostly playing 40k/WMH).

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im sorry to say this. The PP doesnt care about you. A company never cares about you. its cares about your money. It puts on the facade of caring so you will spent your money on them.

Fine. Replace "cares" with "Realizes the best way to build brand loyalty is to personally engage your fanbase on all levels of your company, to develop a ruleset that meets the needs of all market segments instead of only casuals, to build communities with leagues and tournament support, to politely treat customers like human beings with an ounce of common sense, and to play nice with your independent retailers so that they'll scratch your back and push your products." Is that better?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im sorry to say this. The PP doesnt care about you. A company never cares about you. its cares about your money. It puts on the facade of caring so you will spent your money on them.

What Laughing Man said.

No one thinks, say, Matt Wilson is going to show up to their birthday party, but they provide excellent support for local stores and clubs, provide tournament packages, and engage their community at conventions and on their forums.

 RatBot wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im sorry to say this. The PP doesnt care about you. A company never cares about you. its cares about your money. It puts on the facade of caring so you will spent your money on them.

What Laughing Man said.

No one thinks, say, Matt Wilson is going to show up to their birthday party, but they provide excellent support for local stores and clubs, provide tournament packages, and engage their community at conventions and on their forums.

Not yours, maybe.

IDk, Maybe im just ticked because i often hear people at my local store Praising PP and dissing GW, its kinda annoying.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
IDk, Maybe im just ticked because i often hear people at my local store Praising PP and dissing GW, its kinda annoying.

You stated this. Repeatedly. Perhaps instead of bad mouthing the company, give it a shot. Even if it's not your cup of tea, you'll become more experienced in the process.


In regards to the 'rivalry', let me say this: Games Workshop has seemingly embraced that they are a model company, and have removed themselves from the gaming portion of the industry. Privateer Press has focused on the gaming portion with Iron Arena, Steamroller, and the Master's events.

Is this because PP is earlier in their existence arc, i.e. the old GTs and prize support of GW of old? Who knows. But folks will flock to a company (or companies) that fill the niche they want.

Thing is. I have nothing against the company really. I keep meaning to start it. I want too. But whenever I try, the people who give me advice always start badmouting GW, saying things like "This would cost X from GW" kinda points me away.
Most of the models looked great. PP seems nice, but their fan base around here DOESNT.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Thing is. I have nothing against the company really. I keep meaning to start it. I want too. But whenever I try, the people who give me advice always start badmouting GW, saying things like "This would cost X from GW" kinda points me away.
Most of the models looked great. PP seems nice, but their fan base around here DOESNT.

I've had similar experiences around these parts. It feels like one of those 'there's nothing as fanatical as the converted' sorts of things in regards to a lot of folks. Also a lot of the WAAC player types went to PP games whereas the casual modellers are the ones I've experienced playing GW (though they have WAACs still) mostly.

 RatBot wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im sorry to say this. The PP doesnt care about you. A company never cares about you. its cares about your money. It puts on the facade of caring so you will spent your money on them.

What Laughing Man said.

No one thinks, say, Matt Wilson is going to show up to their birthday party, but they provide excellent support for local stores and clubs, provide tournament packages, and engage their community at conventions and on their forums.

DC, their lead designer, showed up at our FLGS one game night when he was in town visiting his wife's family. Hung out for about half an hour or so and then had to get going. Him and others also show up at Warmachine Weekend, an independently run mini-con every year.

They also typically go drinking with folks from the convention afterwards. DC is... interesting with a few beers in him.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Thing is. I have nothing against the company really. I keep meaning to start it. I want too. But whenever I try, the people who give me advice always start badmouting GW, saying things like "This would cost X from GW" kinda points me away.
Most of the models looked great. PP seems nice, but their fan base around here DOESNT.

So what if they badmouth something else you like? Are there really any problems other than that they rub you the wrong way when it comes to their opinions about GW?

I get that no one likes to hear that something they like has bad qualities, but to actually have that impact ones hobby choices seems really strange and self limiting.