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I kinda think that the advantage of Warmahordes is the tight rules and the way you don't have to treat it sort of like a roleplaying hobby game. You can sit down and play it building good lists and trying to win, and not feel like you're breaking the game to do it.

Mattman154 wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:


Captain Allister Caine (*5pts)
* Ol' Rowdy (9pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Alexia Ciannor & the Risen (Alexia and 9 Risen Grunts) (5pts)
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Horgenhold Forge Guard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Rangers (5pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Ragman (2pts)
Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (1pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)

Damn, 9/14 things taken were Mercs. I guess that's what they're there for!

I enjoyed Muse on Minis (I think it was) fluff justification of the battle. Caine is relaxing in a bar with his pal Reinholdt, leering at the women, making the Journeyman uncomfortable and using the Squire to as a table for his drinks.Then a Ranger Swift Sergeant runs in and exclaims "holy %&#, Severius just rolled into town with two battle engines!" So Caine and company head outside, throw some coin at the mercenaries relaxing outside, fire up the jacks on the fly and run out to meet old man Sevvie in the streets of the finals table:



...and then they get down to business

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:

Mattman154 wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:


Captain Allister Caine (*5pts)
* Ol' Rowdy (9pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Alexia Ciannor & the Risen (Alexia and 9 Risen Grunts) (5pts)
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Horgenhold Forge Guard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Rangers (5pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Ragman (2pts)
Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (1pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)

Damn, 9/14 things taken were Mercs. I guess that's what they're there for!

I enjoyed Muse on Minis (I think it was) fluff justification of the battle. Caine is relaxing in a bar with his pal Reinholdt, leering at the women, making the Journeyman uncomfortable and using the Squire to as a table for his drinks.Then a Ranger Swift Sergeant runs in and exclaims "holy %&#, Severius just rolled into town with two battle engines!" So Caine and company head outside, throw some coin at the mercenaries relaxing outside, fire up the jacks on the fly and run out to meet old man Sevvie in the streets of the finals table:



...and then they get down to business

Had to exault that!

I hope no one brought trenchers or dygmies to that table

I've noticed that the Warmachine players are generally older. The 40k players are younger. The 40k players often decide to play massive 2 vs 2 3000 point battles just for fun while the WM players take a very organised mindset to the game - 35 points max, kill the caster, etc. Which is not a bad way to play at all. I've had more tense WM games than 40k games.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I've noticed that the Warmachine players are generally older. The 40k players are younger.

It's typically the opposite from what I've seen around here. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

Our local WMH guys are also considerably older, as many of them - like me - got back into wargaming with WMH. 40k has the younger crowd and WHFB somewhere in between. We actually have the numbers for this, as we got the ages of the players for the recent multi-system Nationals.

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
Our local WMH guys are also considerably older, as many of them - like me - got back into wargaming with WMH. 40k has the younger crowd and WHFB somewhere in between. We actually have the numbers for this, as we got the ages of the players for the recent multi-system Nationals.

Would you be able to post those statistics? Not trying to argue, just curious

While I can't speak for the local 40K players, at my store the only person under the age of 18 who play Warmahordes is the Press Ganger's son.

No WMH exodus here. The city I live in is small (200k people) and we've got about 20-25 people playing 40k, a little more playing WFB and I know 3 people into WMH.

I can see why MHW might be more popular elsewhere, but Poland is usually one of the slowest to react to change, especially when it comes to "luxury" stuff such as miniature collectible wargames. We're a bit slow on the uptake, and since GW successfully invaded our region and occupied its player base, it never really saw any visible competition.

It might be different in larger cities though. Here's to hoping that other games, including WMH, will threaten GW enough for them to stop being lazy and start finally considering their business model more than just miniature sculpting.

There were 50 or so guys at the Polish Masters in Krakow in November, one of our local (as in Oslo, Norway) polish players got us to go.

Mattman154 wrote:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
Our local WMH guys are also considerably older, as many of them - like me - got back into wargaming with WMH. 40k has the younger crowd and WHFB somewhere in between. We actually have the numbers for this, as we got the ages of the players for the recent multi-system Nationals.

Would you be able to post those statistics? Not trying to argue, just curious

I don't have them myself, they were relayed to me at the debrief last week. It is mainly important because this year, one of our backers were an umbrella organization for "fantastic pasttimes" that get community funding for youth activities, so we had to have the numbers on everybody since there was extra funding involved depending on how many people under the age of 26 signed up.

 CIsaac wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I've noticed that the Warmachine players are generally older. The 40k players are younger.

It's typically the opposite from what I've seen around here. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

I was in a local store the other day picking up some paint. Two old guys were playing a FoW game and talking about how 40k'ers were just a bunch of "young punks". First off, I'm 40, so take that as you will. Second, the people I've seen play in 40k tournaments in that store range from 16 to 60; with a median somewhere between the mid 20s to mid 30s. Those guys would probably have classified me as a young punk!

Point is: not only is anecdotal evidence well, anecdotal; words like "younger" and "older" are relative to the speaker. For someone in their 50 to 60s, just about everyone is "younger". For someone in their teens, just about everyone is "older". I'm not making a claim as to either CIsaac or ExNoctemNacimur's ages; rather, just pointing out that "younger" to me is 30, whereas that would be "older", or even "ancient" from my kids point of view.

I think you're more likely to see a working adult get into WMH than into GW. That's supposition, but WMH has a lower buy in, and low point games are still fun and meaningful. So, a person can buy a battlebox, then the rulebook, then the faction book, then a few units, and slowly build their way up.

 Polonius wrote:
I think you're more likely to see a working adult get into WMH than into GW. That's supposition, but WMH has a lower buy in, and low point games are still fun and meaningful. So, a person can buy a battlebox, then the rulebook, then the faction book, then a few units, and slowly build their way up.

I don't understand the logic here?

You're saying that someone with a job will play WMH but that they have to spend less?

I think there's a second argument you have to make about how GW targets younger gamers
who don't need jobs or something like that.

It might have something to do with people who are earning the money looking for more value in stuff.

If you equate that Deathwing squad to half a days work, you might be less inclined to splash out on it when there are cheaper systems out there.

 malfred wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I think you're more likely to see a working adult get into WMH than into GW. That's supposition, but WMH has a lower buy in, and low point games are still fun and meaningful. So, a person can buy a battlebox, then the rulebook, then the faction book, then a few units, and slowly build their way up.

I don't understand the logic here?

You're saying that someone with a job will play WMH but that they have to spend less?

I think there's a second argument you have to make about how GW targets younger gamers
who don't need jobs or something like that.

I think the point may be if you're a yougin' mostly spending your parents money or just dumping what you get after school from slingin' burgers you don't mind dropping your money without really thinking about it. If you're a working adult with bills, rent/mortgage, a partner, maybe even a carpet demon or two your money is worth more to you, even if you have a larger pool to spend. I think this is especially true if you're a working adult that doesn't have a particularly high income.

There are folks in my playgroup who can afford to maybe buy a new warjack every 2-3 months. They just don't have the money to do much else. Still since even single piece swap-outs can really change the feel of a list for WM/H that maybe $26.00 they spend on a warjack kit goes a lot longer way to changing their play experiences than that same $26.00 would in 40k.

My local 40k group consists of people who lacks time and have been playing 40k since a long way back and built up a huge collection. They mostly just want to paint nice models and play occasionally. The prices are no huge issues.

But I recently begun playing Malifaux at a other store where everyone had switched from 40k to WM/H as they felt it was a better competitive game.

So I don't think personal experience counts so much as everyone's local group is different.

But I would start playing WM/H myself if I liked the models and didn't have such a huge 40k collection.

My guess I'd that's it's gonna be a domioe effect, as one gets richer the smelly-sweaty-nerdy fanbase migrates to the other as the rich turns into what GW currently is, a diva of pure-bred nerds who want nothing more than money. Although the process will take about 10 years per migration, I think in 2030 it'll be down to about a migration of 5 years.

The other outcome, some other war-game comes out that turns "mainstream" I.e. On the levels of xbox. Now wargaming is well known and this game turns to a horrible mixture of games workshop, Microsoft, apple and Disney!

Think about it; you pay a subscription along with the usual stuff that's 2x times the price of 40k, but every edition only changes 2 rules, comes out every 6 months and armies become redundant after each new edition! It'll be hell!

But the positive side, 40k becomes yet again an outcast, fairly expensive hobby that few play. Just like it was in the 1990's

Herzlos wrote:
It might have something to do with people who are earning the money looking for more value in stuff.

If you equate that Deathwing squad to half a days work, you might be less inclined to splash out on it when there are cheaper systems out there.

I never equate my days work to my hoppy expenses. Or else it would not be worth it. For example, A blister is 20 or so dollors from many places. For me, that is 3 hours work from a job i really dislike. If i think "would i go through the 3 hours of cutting onions for this blister" i would never buy anything.

 malfred wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I think you're more likely to see a working adult get into WMH than into GW. That's supposition, but WMH has a lower buy in, and low point games are still fun and meaningful. So, a person can buy a battlebox, then the rulebook, then the faction book, then a few units, and slowly build their way up.

I don't understand the logic here?

You're saying that someone with a job will play WMH but that they have to spend less?

I think there's a second argument you have to make about how GW targets younger gamers
who don't need jobs or something like that.

You are missing the meme of the thread - WM/H is for employed adults who play competitive manly games - you need to have bought into the NLP to understand.

marielle wrote:

 malfred wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I think you're more likely to see a working adult get into WMH than into GW. That's supposition, but WMH has a lower buy in, and low point games are still fun and meaningful. So, a person can buy a battlebox, then the rulebook, then the faction book, then a few units, and slowly build their way up.

I don't understand the logic here?

You're saying that someone with a job will play WMH but that they have to spend less?

I think there's a second argument you have to make about how GW targets younger gamers
who don't need jobs or something like that.

You are missing the meme of the thread - WM/H is for employed adults who play competitive manly games - you need to have bought into the NLP to understand.

Or, y'know, this:

Chongara wrote:
If you're a working adult with bills, rent/mortgage, a partner, maybe even a carpet demon or too your money is worth more to you, even if you have a larger pool to spend. I think this is especially true if you're a working adult that doesn't have a particularly high income.

Can't say I've asked around, but considering there are 110 members in our facebook group and we're usually filling every tables at the FLGS when we meet up, I'd say WH40k is going strong, I know there's a bunch of WH players and some Dust as well, don't know much about their numbers.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
It might have something to do with people who are earning the money looking for more value in stuff.

If you equate that Deathwing squad to half a days work, you might be less inclined to splash out on it when there are cheaper systems out there.

I never equate my days work to my hoppy expenses. Or else it would not be worth it. For example, A blister is 20 or so dollors from many places. For me, that is 3 hours work from a job i really dislike. If i think "would i go through the 3 hours of cutting onions for this blister" i would never buy anything.

Sorry to tell you this, but that is EXACTLY how you need to start thinking about things.

If you want to get mor ecomplex, you can reduce the cost by also figuring in the time you will spend using the product vs other products.

clively wrote:

 CIsaac wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I've noticed that the Warmachine players are generally older. The 40k players are younger.

It's typically the opposite from what I've seen around here. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

I was in a local store the other day picking up some paint. Two old guys were playing a FoW game and talking about how 40k'ers were just a bunch of "young punks". First off, I'm 40, so take that as you will. Second, the people I've seen play in 40k tournaments in that store range from 16 to 60; with a median somewhere between the mid 20s to mid 30s. Those guys would probably have classified me as a young punk!

Point is: not only is anecdotal evidence well, anecdotal; words like "younger" and "older" are relative to the speaker. For someone in their 50 to 60s, just about everyone is "younger". For someone in their teens, just about everyone is "older". I'm not making a claim as to either CIsaac or ExNoctemNacimur's ages; rather, just pointing out that "younger" to me is 30, whereas that would be "older", or even "ancient" from my kids point of view.

Good point!

The WM/H players often are 16 and up while the 40k players are generally 13-ish. It is very anecdotal evidence, but it may be useful to someone, somewhere, in the mists of time.

Local group pretty much will only play 40k or Warmahordes. There's a small resurge of WHFB and some interest in X-Wing.

Seems to be a 20s-30s group but fairly large and very active.

So... If I'm a working adult and my money is more valuable to me then the logical conclusion is that I'd avoid 40k?

That doesn't seem to make any sense.

It makes loads of sense. You simply get more for your gaming dollar in terms of total game experience with WM/H than you do with 40k. Go with 40k if modeling and painting is more important to you than gaming, but if gaming is your thing, PP's games will be better value for the money.

EDIT: Assuming of course that you enjoy the type of game play PP's games offer.

. . . unless you don't like PP's games.

Yes, i edited my post accordingly.

If you want a game where you just have a blast rolling dice and make some pew-pew laser sounds while you have toy soldiers kill each other, then 40k is perfectly fine. It's a game that doesn't really do well when you take it seriously though.

 agustin wrote:
Yes, i edited my post accordingly.

If you want a game where you just have a blast rolling dice and make some pew-pew laser sounds while you have toy soldiers kill each other, then 40k is perfectly fine. It's a game that doesn't really do well when you take it seriously though.

So if I "value my money" I should pick the one I like more. Wow. Mind blowing stuff there.

But if im a "serious and mature" gamer I shouldn't buy GW. Ahh. Got it.