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I've been playing 40k since Rogue Trader, and the models that have come with the starter sets have generally not been very competitive choices. However, this looks like it might have changed slightly...


I'm really interesting in doing a new Deathwing army, and I'm wondering if it's possible to build a (mostly) Deathwing army with the Terminators from the box as a core unit. The main reason is money, really, and the fact that bikes, shooty DW Terminators, etc. actually all seem pretty good.

So is there a way to build a competitive DW army, with the Dark Vengeance Terminators (and maybe other models?) as the core units? Can we do *gasp* Foot Wing on the cheap!?!?!?!?!?

I'd say get 2 sets, and 1-2 da/rw starter box sets, solid core. Add black knights later for more speed or vehicles/terminators for more support. You can use the commander in the box as azreal until you convert your own. And the libby's are a solid choice, though if you go rw heavy you might want to pick up samael instead of azrael.

Eventually if you want to stay mixed wing, you'll pick up done drop pods, razorbacks, and devastator squads. And most likely more diverse tactical squads. I'd prefer to have the plasma cannons on terminators over tactical marines.

Personally, I'd love to run 5 land speeder tornados, it's give me that feeling from dawn of war, though it's totally be a glass cannon unit.

Oops, I missed you preferred dw. It really depends in your local meta weapon load it's will very radically. I've run DW, but with games nowadays, they lack speed and massed heavy fire power. You'll really have to pick you're battles. Dropping the whole army in point blank is a good suicide option. Hang back pick you're fights isolate your opponents units.

 firmlog wrote:
I'd say get 2 sets, and 1-2 da/rw starter box sets, solid core. Add black knights later for more speed or vehicles/terminators for more support. You can use the commander in the box as azreal until you convert your own. And the libby's are a solid choice, though if you go rw heavy you might want to pick up samael instead of azrael.

Eventually if you want to stay mixed wing, you'll pick up done drop pods, razorbacks, and devastator squads. And most likely more diverse tactical squads. I'd prefer to have the plasma cannons on terminators over tactical marines.

Personally, I'd love to run 5 land speeder tornados, it's give me that feeling from dawn of war, though it's totally be a glass cannon unit.

Thanks for the reply...


I'd like to avoid going the way of mixed wing entirely. I'm talking 100% Death Wing. When I say Dark Vengeance models, I pretty much mean just the Terminators, purchased parted out or something. If some Devastators were needed to make it work then so be it...The army I was thinking of running was...

1 or 2 units of Deathwing Knights, 1 DW Command Squad with the FNP banner, 3-4 DW Terminator Squads, and Belial. That ought to add up to something around 1500 points no?



The main reason for building the army is A) I'd like a low model count army that I can carry around easily, and B) I already have a competitive IG army that works very well...I'd like to run something that takes the game a bit differently. Something more dynamic and elite. I'm sick of ShootingPhaseHammer.

I think you can swing a lot if that from DV. The DV termie Sgt makes a great Belial, if you look closely. You just need a few more termies, and I'd suggest at least one or two CMLs, which you can't get from DV (but the Deathwing boxed set comes with one). I'd be tempted to grab a few TH/SS termies to act as Sgts as well.

How are you going to get all your termies across the board? Footslog? You can't DW assault all of them.

SavageRobby wrote:

I think you can swing a lot if that from DV. The DV termie Sgt makes a great Belial, if you look closely. You just need a few more termies, and I'd suggest at least one or two CMLs, which you can't get from DV (but the Deathwing boxed set comes with one). I'd be tempted to grab a few TH/SS termies to act as Sgts as well.

How are you going to get all your termies across the board? Footslog? You can't DW assault all of them.

Haven't really thought about that yet...

Our resident Deathwing player used to just walk his guys across the field shooting missiles at you, but that was when 35 Terminators w/ TH/SS and a CML in every squad cut it. Nowadays you want to switch things up. I was thinking...

DWA Belial, the Command Squad, and a pair of Knights units. Then DS the rest of the stuff? I honestly have no idea whatsoever. I live in a frozen hell-hole and I really just want to start painting things that I *know* are going to be in the army. And it's got to be as much DW as possible.

3 termy squads, and one dk and command with belial is about 1500 After upgrades. Add a libby in termy armor should finish it off. Bitty if you really skimp you could afford one more squad.

I was thinking if something like this. One large dw squad with 2 hvy flame/ ac / plasma cannon, 2 small cyclone range support, one assault of your choice, supported by a command with the banner of choice. And a librarian.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can dw assault the whole army if you go first. Otherwise bring the 2 fire support units starting on the board.

I have played a pure deathwing for years, and it is both fun and competitive. Using all from a DV set will be very difficult. Buying a single box of the new deathwing terminators should help a lot. There is enough for 5 deathwing knights, and then enough bits for converting (easily) a DV squad into a command squad, and to convert the DV captain to a Belial, plus the librarian and chaplain into characters. These three have rather large and ornate power armor, and with a little bit of moderate conversion and a 40mm base look nice as termis (did this with mine). Then there are a cyclone missile launcher, a heavy flamer, an assault cannon, and a plasma cannon you still haven't touched yet, along with about 4-5 pistols. So you can convert (again, easily) a few extra DV assault cannons into other heavy weapons.

As far as a 1500 point list, think about this.
Belial
5 Deathwing Knights

5 Terminators with Assault Cannon and Chainfist
5 Terminators with Cyclone and Chainfist
5 Terminators with Heavy Flamer and Chainfist

3 Ravenwing from DV
3 Ravenwing from DV

This allows good synergy, 3 scoring units, a variety of weapons, and will be fairly easy on the wallet. Terminators are now much better at shooting than assault from deep strike. Twin linking thunder hammers and lightning claws doesn't help in the shooting phase, nor does their split fire rule. And they can't assault from deep strike. Add assault terminators later. Also, the command squad is a little expensive, and although FNP is good, and so is the banner option, add them later. Finally, the ravenwing allows you to reserve/DS more termis.

Tactically, try this. Belial and the DW knights deep strike turn one. Belial has a special rule that they do not deviate. With a 2+/3++/T5, they should survive to turn 2. Start the ravenwing bikes on the board, and advance behind, but close to, where Belial comes in. If you hit one flank, that is great. On turn 2, the rest of the Deathwing DS within 6" of Belial or the Ravenwing so they don't deviate. They are twin linked and can split fire. Heavy flamers are fantastic for coming in and roasting hoard armies, and they also ignore cover saves. 20ish terminators on one flank will devastate most opposing armies.

If you aready have a DV set, pick up a unit of new DW terminators, and start converting. DV termis are available on ebay, etc. I have 5 painted ones available, if you are interested. Use the ravenwing and foot sloggers in the box as trade bait, or as extra units until you get enough termies. Enjoy.

The DV termies seem like a decent set up to me. Twinlinked shots when you arrive via deepstrike means that shooty units are very good, I think they are better than TH+SS for DA. Assault cannons may be the best weapon for them also.

If I played DA, I'd take a full unit with Belial and either 2 assault cannons or two heavy flamers (if you face a lot of blob units). You'd drop down where ever you want, and then unleash hell on them.

So for a "parts list" for 1,500 points, how does this look?

3x Dark Vengeance sets
1x Assault Terminators set
2x Deathwing Command Squad sets


That'll make a squad of Knights, a Command Squad w/ AC, 2 AC squads, 2 CML squads, and a squad of Knights. This looks like an acceptable DW army for around $200.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
So for a "parts list" for 1,500 points, how does this look?

3x Dark Vengeance sets
1x Assault Terminators set
2x Deathwing Command Squad sets


That'll make a squad of Knights, a Command Squad w/ AC, 2 AC squads, 2 CML squads, and a squad of Knights. This looks like an acceptable DW army for around $200.

This is similar to what I bought, though I run DeathRaven as opposed to pure DW. Not that there is anything wrong with it, just personal taste. I prefer to have a few more numbers and some more mobility.

Seems like a solid idea, and you can sell all the Chaos and any of the Tac squads/ RW you dont want from the DV box.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
So for a "parts list" for 1,500 points, how does this look?

3x Dark Vengeance sets
1x Assault Terminators set
2x Deathwing Command Squad sets


That'll make a squad of Knights, a Command Squad w/ AC, 2 AC squads, 2 CML squads, and a squad of Knights. This looks like an acceptable DW army for around $200.

I assume the 3x DV is just the terminators, not the full sets (you don't need the full starter, obviously). Otherwise, yeah, pretty solid.

SavageRobby wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
So for a "parts list" for 1,500 points, how does this look?

3x Dark Vengeance sets
1x Assault Terminators set
2x Deathwing Command Squad sets


That'll make a squad of Knights, a Command Squad w/ AC, 2 AC squads, 2 CML squads, and a squad of Knights. This looks like an acceptable DW army for around $200.

I assume the 3x DV is just the terminators, not the full sets (you don't need the full starter, obviously). Otherwise, yeah, pretty solid.

Yeah...they're <$20 on feeBay. The damn codex is going to cost half as much as the army... feth GW in the ear.

I figure that by mixing and matching guys around, and swapping the assault cannons onto other Terminators, and getting rid of the silly wings on the Sergeant, there'll be enough difference that it won't obviously look like 3 DV starter sets.

Only get 1 DW box for now. The amount of extra bits are staggering. Only get assault termies if you really want them, but termies are more shooty now. Consider ebay for the assault on black reach termies, the go for $20-25 a set of 5 and are compatible with bits. The extra DA bitz will make them look very good.

 The Sarducci wrote:
Only get 1 DW box for now. The amount of extra bits are staggering. Only get assault termies if you really want them, but termies are more shooty now. Consider ebay for the assault on black reach termies, the go for $20-25 a set of 5 and are compatible with bits. The extra DA bitz will make them look very good.

Hmm...it'd be more attractive if the Black Reach Terminators came with a heavy weapon though. The NOS eBay sets don't include those...

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

I figure that by mixing and matching guys around, and swapping the assault cannons onto other Terminators, and getting rid of the silly wings on the Sergeant, there'll be enough difference that it won't obviously look like 3 DV starter sets.

One thing to note is that the assembly of the DV termies aren't multi-part sets, so you're going to have to do a fair amount of cutting and gluing to swap the ACs around. I have 2 units of DV terms, and other than removing the Sgts for other models, left them pretty much the way they are because of that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:


Hmm...it'd be more attractive if the Black Reach Terminators came with a heavy weapon though. The NOS eBay sets don't include those...

You can use the CML that comes with the DW box for that, though.