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I'm a HUGE fan of the HH. It's awesome. It's blinkin' awesome it is. I often find myself outside my local GW on the morning of the latest HH release, my giddy features pressed up against the shop window and my grasping digits weakly scraping the glass in anticipation of grabbing myself a copy. Pathetic, I know. The manager approaches the door, keys in hand and eyeing me wearily. I burst through the doors with all the eagerness of an ogryn on smak, the manager goes flying over the counter, either from my kinetic force or just a keen sense of self preservation. I roughly thrust some money in his face and I rush home to 'tend to the serious bidness of....reading!

However, I digress. The point of my venturing this thread is to raise the issue of how the HH authors are becoming seriously bloody good at slipping the odd left-field surprise into their books of immense genius (don't laugh...I'm serious). For example

I would just like to hear what 'yall have to say about these little shock and surprises that have come about and to see if any of you can predict any more sea-changes to the accepted 'truths' of this sublime series.

Cheers!

Actually, that wasn't as surprising as:

Angel Exterminatus spoiler:



For my opinion of the above:



Garro opinion:

clively wrote:

Garro opinion:

Spoiler:

I was just about to start listening to the Garro audio books when Swallow came out and said that Garro and crew weren't the foundation of the grey knights. That one blurb is enough for me to not bother. Garro is obviously cool but the story arc already had a black mark by bringing back Loken. If they are just going to be Death Watch or whatever then I don't want to waste my time.

When was this?

Is there not a piece in news and rumours which states that swallow said that garro and his knights errant were the beginning of grey knights history whereas the codex is the end?

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
Is there not a piece in news and rumours which states that swallow said that garro and his knights errant were the beginning of grey knights history whereas the codex is the end?

James Swallow said in Decembers WD

"But the questions I get asked most about Garro are about his future. Where will he end up? What is the significance of the colourless armour he wears in service to Malcador the Sigillite? Will he face Mortarion again? All these things will be answered in time, but I'll leave you with one revelation. He is not a Grey Knight. The question of who and what Nathaniel Garro is, and where his fate lies, is much more complicated than that..."

Don't have the specific page number sorry.

I think that Garro and his other Knights Errant will be the marines to train the newly formed Grey Knights at the behest of Malcador, regardless of how pure and dedicated to the Emperor they are they still, in most cases have traitor Gene - seed or have in someway or the other disobeyed his law, as far as I know anyway.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Don't have the specific page number sorry.

Are you sure it was December? The page talking about Garro in new releases doesn't have any quotes from Swallow at all... Is it towards the back, maybe?

I want more info about those loyalists from the Age of Darkness anthology. Did Arvida find the other survivors of the Fourth Fellowship? Regardless of whether he did or he did not, how did he begin his journey to fight the 'true causes' of his legion's destruction? And there's Dantioch and the surviving loyalist Iron Warriors of Lesser Damantyne. Did they go to Terra? Or to Macragge? Were they the source for Guilliman's advice and recommendations regarding siege warfare as laid down in the Codex Astartes (from what I hear, the Codex Astartes favors Perturabo and the Iron Warriors over Dorn and the Imperial Fists with regards to siege and fortification)? Regardless, was Dantioch's wish for the legacy of the IV Legion to be continued granted or not?

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Don't have the specific page number sorry.

Are you sure it was December? The page talking about Garro in new releases doesn't have any quotes from Swallow at all... Is it towards the back, maybe?

I don't know sorry, there is an interview with James Swallow apparently though

About eidolan SPOILER: index astartes has him kicking around in the 41st millennium, so we knew he wouldn't stay... Broken

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
I want more info about those loyalists from the Age of Darkness anthology. Did Arvida find the other survivors of the Fourth Fellowship? Regardless of whether he did or he did not, how did he begin his journey to fight the 'true causes' of his legion's destruction? And there's Dantioch and the surviving loyalist Iron Warriors of Lesser Damantyne. Did they go to Terra? Or to Macragge? Were they the source for Guilliman's advice and recommendations regarding siege warfare as laid down in the Codex Astartes (from what I hear, the Codex Astartes favors Perturabo and the Iron Warriors over Dorn and the Imperial Fists with regards to siege and fortification)? Regardless, was Dantioch's wish for the legacy of the IV Legion to be continued granted or not?

If memory serves, I seem to recall Dantioch been specifically asked by Nicodemus to aid in augmenting the Palace. Not sure about your other questions, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
About eidolan SPOILER: index astartes has him kicking around in the 41st millennium, so we knew he wouldn't stay... Broken

Indeed; however, I remember reading a bit of a teaser somewhere that said that the authors were going to have shocks and surprises aplenty worked into the accepted 'canon', some of which will have a hint of ret-con about them, hence my genuine surprise.

Also, Angel Exterminatus spoiler:

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:


Are you sure it was December?

Yes, it was in Decembers WD. I pulled it up last night.

 Muhr wrote:

Indeed; however, I remember reading a bit of a teaser somewhere that said that the authors were going to have shocks and surprises aplenty worked into the accepted 'canon', some of which will have a hint of ret-con about them, hence my genuine surprise.

Somehow this scares the gak out of me...I' mean 40k is becoming character centric fan(author) fiction....

 Muhr wrote:
I'm a HUGE fan of the HH. It's awesome. It's blinkin' awesome it is. I often find myself outside my local GW on the morning of the latest HH release, my giddy features pressed up against the shop window and my grasping digits weakly scraping the glass in anticipation of grabbing myself a copy. Pathetic, I know. The manager approaches the door, keys in hand and eyeing me wearily. I burst through the doors with all the eagerness of an ogryn on smak, the manager goes flying over the counter, either from my kinetic force or just a keen sense of self preservation. I roughly thrust some money in his face and I rush home to 'tend to the serious bidness of....reading!

However, I digress. The point of my venturing this thread is to raise the issue of how the HH authors are becoming seriously bloody good at slipping the odd left-field surprise into their books of immense genius (don't laugh...I'm serious). For example

Spoiler:

Eidolon getting his 'ed lopped off by Fulgrim "I am the star around which you all orbit!" (love that). Or that preening self-lover Lucius getting....killed by a very handy Raven Guard (that one REALLY surprised me).

I would just like to hear what 'yall have to say about these little shock and surprises that have come about and to see if any of you can predict any more sea-changes to the accepted 'truths' of this sublime series.

Cheers!

excellent,

Someone else with as much love for the series as me!

Imagine my dismay when Amazon cancelled my order for angel exterminatus because they 'couldn't source one'.

I love the series and much of it has grabbed me. One part that sticks in my mind is when the lion knocks the head off one of his officers for disagreeing with him! This from a loyalist!!!!

I'm going to re-read the series once its concluded. And I can't wait.

which book does the lion knock one of his boys heads off?

I'd be surprised if the story ever moves forward again, lol.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
Is there not a piece in news and rumours which states that swallow said that garro and his knights errant were the beginning of grey knights history whereas the codex is the end?

James Swallow said in Decembers WD

"But the questions I get asked most about Garro are about his future. Where will he end up? What is the significance of the colourless armour he wears in service to Malcador the Sigillite? Will he face Mortarion again? All these things will be answered in time, but I'll leave you with one revelation. He is not a Grey Knight. The question of who and what Nathaniel Garro is, and where his fate lies, is much more complicated than that..."

Don't have the specific page number sorry.

I think that Garro and his other Knights Errant will be the marines to train the newly formed Grey Knights at the behest of Malcador, regardless of how pure and dedicated to the Emperor they are they still, in most cases have traitor Gene - seed or have in someway or the other disobeyed his law, as far as I know anyway.

The answer is pretty obvious here isn't it? Loken and co. formed the space marine chapter called "marines errantor"

EDIT: missed the "or" out

What I expect to see from HH is Dorn's fate.

From Index Astartes II and "Space Marine" book from 1993 we know that Dorn is dead and that his body is encased at IF's fortress.

But recently there were rumors about his death, that he is not dead but missing as they recovered just his powerfist, but not his body. With no new material released on this this must be one of the rumors on how will they write HH and I am interested in this.

Dorn died sometime after the Heresy iirc. 32nd or 33rd millennium so it probably won't feature. I don't know if we will even see the scouring tbh.

The marines Errant have been consigned to a slow shrinking death by the tyrant of Badab so I very much doubt GW will allow that to be the fate of the antecedants of Garro and Loken.

The Emperor is really Jay and Silent Bob in disguise! I fully expect this to be the grand reveal of the series.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:
Dorn died sometime after the Heresy iirc. 32nd or 33rd millennium so it probably won't feature. I don't know if we will even see the scouring tbh.

Dorn died right after the scouring, in 1'st Black Crusade ( 781.M31 ).
And this is HH after all, the series that shows the fate of Primarchs and Emperor. They will be fools to avoid writing about Dorn's end.

I refuse to believe Dorn is dead.

Dorn definitely "dies" before the end of M31. Most likely sometime early in the storyline.


Poor loyalist primarchs. Only Guilliman, Russ, and Vulkan seem to last much past the 2nd Founding, lol. And even then, only a few hundred years.

Meanwhile the traitors live on... and do nothing, lol.


Honestly, if I were to say I'd like to see anything, I'd love to see them retcon the end of the Heresy and the Battle of Terra to kill off a few more of the primarchs.

Obviously you can't kill guys like Angron, or Guilliman, or Dorn, etc, who play a part after the Heresy. But I'd love to see some epic primarch on primarch battles. Primarchs like Mortarion, Lorgar, Corax, Khan, Vulkan, don't necessarily do anything after the Heresy of any note and can die off without disrupting the canon. The Heresy seems kinda anticlimactic if you think about it. Epic all out war, and none of the primarchs die but Horus and Sanguinius, lol.

Horus (dies already)
Leman Russ (Has to live to oppose the Codex and explain how the Space Wolves stayed so independent.)
Ferrus Manus (dead already)
Fulgrim (has to live to fight Guilliman later. Though maybe now that he's a daemon prince he can be banished?)
Vulkan (Doesn't really do anything after the Heresy. Can die with no impact to storyline)
Rogal Dorn (should probably live to oppose th Codex too)
Roboute Guilliman (has to basically do all the heavy lifting after the Heresy ends, plus he's not at Terra anyway)
Magnus the Red (Doesn't do a whole lot after the Heresy, but at least he does something, lol)
Sanguinius (dies already)
Lion El'Jonson (taken out of action already)
Perturabo (needs to live to trap Dorn)
Mortarion (doesn't do squat after the Heresy other than get heart tattooed by a Grey Knight)
Lorgar (does even less than Mortarion. Can die without hurting the storyline at all.)
Jaghatai Khan (Fights some Dark Eldar and gets lost. Almost n improvement for him to die in some epic clash, lol)
Konrad Curze (Guess he has to live to keep the sweet Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now death intact)
Angron (Only traitor primarch to do anything after M32 it seems, lol. Armageddon I, Dominion of Fire, etc.)
Corax (Worst primarch ending ever. Nevermore? Good lord. Dying in the Heresy would be the best thing that ever happened to him)
Alpharius Omegon (Well, one of them dies to Guilliman. The good news is, that leaves a second one to die in the Heresy...)


I know this list won't be popular by some fans. But with all the major changes they have already made, I'd love to see them go all out with the grittiness of the story.

[spoiler]Lorgar (does even less than Mortarion. Can die without hurting the storyline at all.)

I'm pretty sure he's mentioned as being a demon prince in serveral books unless your ok with butchering the story.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I refuse to believe Dorn is dead.

I hope he is, infact I hope he died a pointless death stabbed in the back by the imperials, he and his legion are the most obnoxious self righteous pieces of crap in all of 40k.