Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Right,

So today I had my 3rd game in local league (i shared the first one in "tactics" part where I asked you for the game hints)

Limitations: only 1 HQ, up to two other units apart from troops, no IA, 48x48 table... poor for Eldar :(, lot's of line blocking terrain which is common in major tournaments in Poland

My list - I know it's not perfect but I wanted to use what I have as a priority before purchasing other

HQ1: Farseer; Spirit stones, Guide, Doom, Fortune, Runes of Witnessing, Runes of Warding [175]
Fort: Aegis Defence Line with Quad Gun [100]
Elite 1: 5 Fire Dragons with Exarch in Wave Serpent [92]
Troop 1: 5 Pathfinders [120]
Troop 2: 10 Guardians; Scatter Laser, with Warlock with Embolden [125]
Troop 3: 4 Eldar Jet Bike with Shuriken Cannon, Warlock with Destructor [131]
Heavy 1: Wraithlord, Bright Lance, Eldar Missile Launcher [155]
Heavy 2: 5 Dark Reapers with Exarch, Tempest Launcher [227]
Transport 1: Wave Serpent with Twin Linked Scatter Laser and Shuriken Cannon with Fire Dragons [125]

Tyrant player list

1 Hive Tyrant (HQ) @ 310 Pts Leech Essence; Paroxysm; Wings; TL Devourer w/Worms (x2); Hive Commander; Old Adversary
3 Hive Guard Brood (Elites) @ 150 Pts
30 Termagant Brood (Troops) @ 300 Pts Devourer - THIS IS AMAZING!!!
1 Tervigon (Troops) @ 185 Pts Onslaught;Toxin Sacs; Cluster Spines
1 Mawloc (Heavy Support) @ 170 Pts
3 Biovore Brood (Heavy Support) @ 135 Pts
Models in Army: 39
Total Army Cost: 1250

Each board quarter had objective in the middle worth 2 VP, rest regular (First Blood, Line Breaker and Kill Warlord)

warlord traits not important, he got Iron Arm on Flyrant in terms of powers :(

we did setup by the book, which was fun and is extremely tactical, which I was not prepared for (usually someone form the shop was setting up terrain). That means I had to place ADL prior any other game board element... I do think it's stupid since ADL is supposed to be set up quickly in therms of fluff... it should be FAQed, And why roll for the table side before anything is on it? weird...
then we placed each element one by one (from the pool), I tried to block my left flank with a rock, I put ADL (before) on the right so that outflanking Gants from the left (if it happened) wouldn't have been in Devourer range at the beginning, I placed some ruins for Pathfinders near objective; wood in his deployment (no idea why ), wood in my deployment for Wraithlord for cover) he placed LOS blocking on my right side to get best access to my ADL and have a good range of Hive Guard behind it I presume. He smartly placed two LOS blocking stuff in the middle to my right, as well as forest in the middle (green something like carpet part )

We rolled for night fight and unfortunately it's on :(, I won the rollof for start and since it's nightfight I let him begin hoping he would get in range

my opponent advised me to size initiative which I failed... I think as an afterthought that I shouldn't have, there was no point due to nightfight - what do you think?

deployment



First turn



Turn 2



turn 3



there are no more pictures needed, with flyrant he kills my Dragons, Mavloc charges Pathfiners who manage to fight for 2 turns or more!
EJB runs off the table due to failed Ld test after biovore got one killed....
I make last attempt to take down flyrant with my Serpent (4 rerollable SL S6 shots, and 3 SC S6 shots, but Flyrant is T9 this time and I cant get it) which in turn charges it and kills it
so I'm wiped out.

to sum up:
He has excellent army and knows how to play it, he is former Eldar player so he was confident, he was only worried by Quad Gun and Farseer I believe. I honestly can't see any mistake from his part. I also love his 30 Gants with Devourer, poisoned and outflanking combo - I wonder what you think?
I think I had good plan in terms of deployment but I failed to execute it with WL not blocking right side edge, my bad
Nightfight prevented me from killing Tervigon on turn 1 due to extra cover saves....
I didn't think of my Pathfinders LOS from ruins.... my bad again since his movement towards adl was obvious :(
as for other: I love Pathfinders in cover they are simply great at taking MC and don't care about Iron Arm . Farseer is great, he needs to survive more though , I need to revise my build some

I would appreciate your comments regarding gameplay, any hints and what I could have done differently, the report may have some discrepancies vs real game due to me not remembering and too few pictures but overall it went as described.

I hope you enjoyed it especially since I haven't seen Tyrants played like my opponent had here on dakkadakka

More photos would certainly make the report more popular, but good job nonetheless.

Interesting....I didn't actually know Mawlocks could do that....hrm....its expensive to do, but it might be worthwhile.
Thoughts anyone?

Ohhh....rough game. Tyranids can be a handful. Ok, here are some of my suggestions and answers to your questions.

1. Have you considered taking Eldrad? He isn't much more than your current HQ but is just so much better. Always take him if you can over a normal farseer (points permitting).

2. The Avatar is actually quite good in a footdar list. That's because he is a unit-buffer and not just only a 1-man wrecking crew. Fortune him and he becomes very survivable. I'd definitely consider him for a footdar list...but not unless you play 1500 or higher. Otherwise, Eldrad is the man (and the enemy I hate to play against the most )

3. Regarding the 30-termagant unit, I'm not impressed. It is a 1-trick pony unit that will most likely do damage just once in the game before dying to shooting or assault, especially if they outflank. That 300-pt can be put to much better use with other units that can provide more consistent offense. If you are familiar with tyranids, then it's quite easy to counter them. Devourers have limited range and can't really hurt vehicles. Anyways, there is a reason why I don't run them...they just aren't very consistent.

 jy2 wrote:
Ohhh....rough game. Tyranids can be a handful. Ok, here are some of my suggestions and answers to your questions.

1. Have you considered taking Eldrad? He isn't much more than your current HQ but is just so much better. Always take him if you can over a normal farseer (points permitting).

2. The Avatar is actually quite good in a footdar list. That's because he is a unit-buffer and not just only a 1-man wrecking crew. Fortune him and he becomes very survivable. I'd definitely consider him for a footdar list...but not unless you play 1500 or higher. Otherwise, Eldrad is the man (and the enemy I hate to play against the most )

3. Regarding the 30-termagant unit, I'm not impressed. It is a 1-trick pony unit that will most likely do damage just once in the game before dying to shooting or assault, especially if they outflank. That 300-pt can be put to much better use with other units that can provide more consistent offense. If you are familiar with tyranids, then it's quite easy to counter them. Devourers have limited range and can't really hurt vehicles. Anyways, there is a reason why I don't run them...they just aren't very consistent.

In relation to devourer termagants - On foot they don't often do much and can be shot down through focus-fire before getting to their effective range. However, there are 2 alternatives to this that make them (i think) very effective:

1.) Hive Commander upgrade on a tyrant - Outflank them. Coming in on a 2+, the mob of little guys will throw 90 s4 shots at either a heavy weapon team in the back, or an AV10 vehicle and through weight of fire will kill it. 30 bodies is difficult to dislodge barring multiple flamers in a unit, or large blasts everywhere, so with flyrants giving them synapse they should survive to fusillade another unit the turn afterwards.
2.) Drop spore -smaller number of models can deep strike this way, but you can put them prettymuch anywhere on the table where you need them. Also, while 30 termagants tend to be overkill on 5 man heavy weapon teams or 3HP av10 vehicles, 20 seems to do the trick without wasting points on extra models.

Those points made, i only rarely upgrade my 'mandatory' termagant units when using tervigons --- but when I do its' with devourers in one of the above configurations. They have been solid for me every time i've used them.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Ohhh....rough game. Tyranids can be a handful. Ok, here are some of my suggestions and answers to your questions.

1. Have you considered taking Eldrad? He isn't much more than your current HQ but is just so much better. Always take him if you can over a normal farseer (points permitting).

2. The Avatar is actually quite good in a footdar list. That's because he is a unit-buffer and not just only a 1-man wrecking crew. Fortune him and he becomes very survivable. I'd definitely consider him for a footdar list...but not unless you play 1500 or higher. Otherwise, Eldrad is the man (and the enemy I hate to play against the most )

3. Regarding the 30-termagant unit, I'm not impressed. It is a 1-trick pony unit that will most likely do damage just once in the game before dying to shooting or assault, especially if they outflank. That 300-pt can be put to much better use with other units that can provide more consistent offense. If you are familiar with tyranids, then it's quite easy to counter them. Devourers have limited range and can't really hurt vehicles. Anyways, there is a reason why I don't run them...they just aren't very consistent.

In relation to devourer termagants - On foot they don't often do much and can be shot down through focus-fire before getting to their effective range. However, there are 2 alternatives to this that make them (i think) very effective:

1.) Hive Commander upgrade on a tyrant - Outflank them. Coming in on a 2+, the mob of little guys will throw 90 s4 shots at either a heavy weapon team in the back, or an AV10 vehicle and through weight of fire will kill it. 30 bodies is difficult to dislodge barring multiple flamers in a unit, or large blasts everywhere, so with flyrants giving them synapse they should survive to fusillade another unit the turn afterwards.
2.) Drop spore -smaller number of models can deep strike this way, but you can put them prettymuch anywhere on the table where you need them. Also, while 30 termagants tend to be overkill on 5 man heavy weapon teams or 3HP av10 vehicles, 20 seems to do the trick without wasting points on extra models.

Those points made, i only rarely upgrade my 'mandatory' termagant units when using tervigons --- but when I do its' with devourers in one of the above configurations. They have been solid for me every time i've used them.

Surely JY2 can give much better advices... maybe I'm missing something but don't you risk, outflanking them, to have that 300 pointish unit out of synapse range and have them run away after a few losses? Nice rep though

 punkow wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Ohhh....rough game. Tyranids can be a handful. Ok, here are some of my suggestions and answers to your questions.

1. Have you considered taking Eldrad? He isn't much more than your current HQ but is just so much better. Always take him if you can over a normal farseer (points permitting).

2. The Avatar is actually quite good in a footdar list. That's because he is a unit-buffer and not just only a 1-man wrecking crew. Fortune him and he becomes very survivable. I'd definitely consider him for a footdar list...but not unless you play 1500 or higher. Otherwise, Eldrad is the man (and the enemy I hate to play against the most )

3. Regarding the 30-termagant unit, I'm not impressed. It is a 1-trick pony unit that will most likely do damage just once in the game before dying to shooting or assault, especially if they outflank. That 300-pt can be put to much better use with other units that can provide more consistent offense. If you are familiar with tyranids, then it's quite easy to counter them. Devourers have limited range and can't really hurt vehicles. Anyways, there is a reason why I don't run them...they just aren't very consistent.

In relation to devourer termagants - On foot they don't often do much and can be shot down through focus-fire before getting to their effective range. However, there are 2 alternatives to this that make them (i think) very effective:

1.) Hive Commander upgrade on a tyrant - Outflank them. Coming in on a 2+, the mob of little guys will throw 90 s4 shots at either a heavy weapon team in the back, or an AV10 vehicle and through weight of fire will kill it. 30 bodies is difficult to dislodge barring multiple flamers in a unit, or large blasts everywhere, so with flyrants giving them synapse they should survive to fusillade another unit the turn afterwards.
2.) Drop spore -smaller number of models can deep strike this way, but you can put them prettymuch anywhere on the table where you need them. Also, while 30 termagants tend to be overkill on 5 man heavy weapon teams or 3HP av10 vehicles, 20 seems to do the trick without wasting points on extra models.

Those points made, i only rarely upgrade my 'mandatory' termagant units when using tervigons --- but when I do its' with devourers in one of the above configurations. They have been solid for me every time i've used them.

Surely JY2 can give much better advices... maybe I'm missing something but don't you risk, outflanking them, to have that 300 pointish unit out of synapse range and have them run away after a few losses? Nice rep though

Outflanking them was my Advice, not Jy2's. Also with flying hive tyrants if synapse is an issue it's not hard to get them under control the turn they come in the board. But typically to cause a morale check on 30 termagants they need to suffer 8 casualties. with proper positioning to restrict LOS, get cover saves, and you've potentially killed the closest threat unit to the squad when they come in, plus OH YEAH the 3 or more monstrous creatures heading in from the other side of the table, the termagants typically stick around to do business.

 punkow wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

In relation to devourer termagants - On foot they don't often do much and can be shot down through focus-fire before getting to their effective range. However, there are 2 alternatives to this that make them (i think) very effective:

1.) Hive Commander upgrade on a tyrant - Outflank them. Coming in on a 2+, the mob of little guys will throw 90 s4 shots at either a heavy weapon team in the back, or an AV10 vehicle and through weight of fire will kill it. 30 bodies is difficult to dislodge barring multiple flamers in a unit, or large blasts everywhere, so with flyrants giving them synapse they should survive to fusillade another unit the turn afterwards.
2.) Drop spore -smaller number of models can deep strike this way, but you can put them prettymuch anywhere on the table where you need them. Also, while 30 termagants tend to be overkill on 5 man heavy weapon teams or 3HP av10 vehicles, 20 seems to do the trick without wasting points on extra models.

Those points made, i only rarely upgrade my 'mandatory' termagant units when using tervigons --- but when I do its' with devourers in one of the above configurations. They have been solid for me every time i've used them.

Surely JY2 can give much better advices... maybe I'm missing something but don't you risk, outflanking them, to have that 300 pointish unit out of synapse range and have them run away after a few losses? Nice rep though

It really is not that bad if they do break normally. Think about it, normally you are deploying them a good 30+ inches from your board edge, and in front of your synapse bubbles, so if they break , they just run straight to synapse. When they get there they regroup, and charge right back in. Only a sweeping advance from an assault unit is a serious concern from the moral stand point.

 jy2 wrote:
Ohhh....rough game. Tyranids can be a handful. Ok, here are some of my suggestions and answers to your questions.

1. Have you considered taking Eldrad? He isn't much more than your current HQ but is just so much better. Always take him if you can over a normal farseer (points permitting).

2. The Avatar is actually quite good in a footdar list. That's because he is a unit-buffer and not just only a 1-man wrecking crew. Fortune him and he becomes very survivable. I'd definitely consider him for a footdar list...but not unless you play 1500 or higher. Otherwise, Eldrad is the man (and the enemy I hate to play against the most )

3. Regarding the 30-termagant unit, I'm not impressed. It is a 1-trick pony unit that will most likely do damage just once in the game before dying to shooting or assault, especially if they outflank. That 300-pt can be put to much better use with other units that can provide more consistent offense. If you are familiar with tyranids, then it's quite easy to counter them. Devourers have limited range and can't really hurt vehicles. Anyways, there is a reason why I don't run them...they just aren't very consistent.

thx for comment!

I didnt have eldrad at the moment I had to post the list

as for the Avatar due to limitation I could either take him or Farseer, I took the latter, which was good

regarding termagant trick with tervigon (poison) and Flyrant Commander (outflank) it's hard to counter at such low point game... but I may be mistaken

I have no doubts that devgants can do some damage on the turn they come in. I've played against 60 of them before in drop pods. However, there are ways to minimize their impact.

1. If you bring a mech list, the most they can probably do is glance a rhino to death from the rear. That's a potential 230+ unit (20 devgants in a spore)
just to kill a 35-pt transport.

2. They can do some damage to MEQ armies, however, if you are playing against them, then consider combat squadding. That way they may wipe out a 80-90 pt unit but that 200 pt+ unit will be at risk next turn. Against my armies, they won't be doing too much damage because they'll be shooting 5-man units or cheap screening units (of course they can fire at my T6 monsters....).

3. If they are outflanking, then you can mitigate it somewhat with your deployment. Either line up the board (I don't really recommend that) or deploy away from it. Do not place objectives near the board edge if you know your opponent has an outflanking army.

4. I usually have some form of anti-horde in my army. Either template weapons or blasts. With so many gants coming in (or better yet, if they deepstrike in), I'm bound to hit a lot.

5. Lack of synapse. In many cases, especially when they outflank, they will be short of synapse. That is when they are most vulnerable, especially to sweeping advance in assault. This is how you kill them off. If you don't have assault elements, then really the only thing you can do is to either shoot them or tankshock them. Getting a flyrant there is not reliable because you really don't know which board edge they will be coming from. You have a 2/3 chance of moving to the right board edge. However, this way you also limit where your flyrant can go. You also put him in harm's way as he is much closer to the enemy and within range of even the smaller guns....lots of opportunities to ground him.

6. Shoot them down. You don't necessarily have to kill them entirely, but if you drop them down to perhaps 25% of the original size, they you can basically ignore their offense for the most part (until they threaten your objective). It is not too hard to shoot down gants, even with cover.


Basically, for me, it boils down to cost-effectiveness. On the turn they come in, they can potentially do a lot of damage but the way I run my units (i.e. min-sized troops or cheap troops), it's not too terrible if I lose a 100-pt or less unit. Then on my turn, I will kill his 200-pt unit. I'm ahead! Also, that unit is mainly a threat on its first turn only. Afterwards, it becomes even less and less of a threat. Compared to biovores and hive guards who will keep on shooting every turn or tervigons and zoanthropes who will keep on buffing the army every turn, I'd rather have the consistency that my other units bring to the army. Devgants can work for certain builds and at times, they can even be amazing. However, they are a little too situational for my taste and a more savvy player can find ways to minimize their impact. That's why personally, I don't run them.

Outflanking them was my Advice, not Jy2

I know that... I just wanted to point out that I'm not very experienced with nids

basically that's what I planned, just wrong execution... I deployed far from my left flank but didnt block my right one properly... and later I decided to take down Tervigon (it's last wound) whereas initially I planned to burn Gants with 2 Wraithlord flamers and charge them.... well I had no luck since Tervigon survived lot's of my shooting though