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 judgedoug wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

Triple9 wrote:
Regarding the Customs issues, one thing I've learned from KS comments is shipping to Canada is a crap shoot. Those folks (customs) are serious up there and it seems that even if you think you're doing it right, you're not. It seems extremely difficult to ship to Canada without either having a Customs issue or forcing the customer to dig deep into their wallet. I can't fault Mantic on this one, because one of the following scripts would have played out regardless of how they shipped given how much they shipped:

1. Box marked as Gift for $20 - Customs Agent says this is worth more than $20, we're [sending it back/give us more money]
2. Box marked as Commerce for $20 - Customs Agent says this is worth more than $20, we're [sending it back/give us more money]
3. Box marked as Gift for $150 - Customer XYZ says 'WTF Mantic, I had to pay ABC dollars to Courier/Customs/somebody and would never have pledged if I knew you were going to use a courier or mark as $150"
4. Box marked as Commerce for $150 - Customer XYZ says 'WTF Mantic, I had to pay ABC dollars to Courier/Customs/somebody and would never have pledged if I knew you were going to use a courier or mark as $150"

I should point out that of these, only #4 does not involve Mantic committing fraud.

Not necessarily; KS rewards are rather different in that they're rewards for an investment; they technically only have to put the raw material cost for production (which could easily be $20 for just some paper and plastic, as most of the cost is the steel mold tooling and such)... and come to think of it, a KS pledge reward is technically a gift, right?

Mantic mentioned that they had a FedEx rep who told them to mark them as $20 gifts and they would have no problems. This was mostly true(mine got through ok) but about half of the ones to Ontario got held up. Last I heard Mantic was working on it, so they probably won't get sent back.

Looks like they're packing the boxes nicely and not too fast, at least in the video. Hopefully mine is one of the big ones in the back

 AlexHolker wrote:

Triple9 wrote:
Regarding the Customs issues, one thing I've learned from KS comments is shipping to Canada is a crap shoot. Those folks (customs) are serious up there and it seems that even if you think you're doing it right, you're not. It seems extremely difficult to ship to Canada without either having a Customs issue or forcing the customer to dig deep into their wallet. I can't fault Mantic on this one, because one of the following scripts would have played out regardless of how they shipped given how much they shipped:

1. Box marked as Gift for $20 - Customs Agent says this is worth more than $20, we're [sending it back/give us more money]
2. Box marked as Commerce for $20 - Customs Agent says this is worth more than $20, we're [sending it back/give us more money]
3. Box marked as Gift for $150 - Customer XYZ says 'WTF Mantic, I had to pay ABC dollars to Courier/Customs/somebody and would never have pledged if I knew you were going to use a courier or mark as $150"
4. Box marked as Commerce for $150 - Customer XYZ says 'WTF Mantic, I had to pay ABC dollars to Courier/Customs/somebody and would never have pledged if I knew you were going to use a courier or mark as $150"

I should point out that of these, only #4 does not involve Mantic committing fraud.

Yeah, I think maybe people in exotic locations should read up on their own import laws and either be prepared to pay what they owe to their government, or not buy things from abroad. It's not Mantic's job to lie to your government.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Yeah, I think maybe people in exotic locations

One day I plan a safari into the uncharted wilderness and untamed lands to face the alien beasts of Savage Canada

 judgedoug wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
I should point out that of these, only #4 does not involve Mantic committing fraud.

Not necessarily; KS rewards are rather different in that they're rewards for an investment; they technically only have to put the raw material cost for production (which could easily be $20 for just some paper and plastic, as most of the cost is the steel mold tooling and such)... and come to think of it, a KS pledge reward is technically a gift, right?

No, it is not a gift. You are giving them money, and in exchange they are giving you a product. Would you have given Mantic $150 without asking for anything in return? Would Mantic have sent you these miniatures if you had not paid for them? No.

To me the question becomes how do you break down the declared value between shipping waves. Do you say $75/$75 (or $70/$70 for an EB) or some other number.

In the future, perhaps Mantic should do a bulk shipment to Canada. You Know, like the first Bones KS . Then there would be absolutely no issues whatsoever.

Triple9 wrote:
To me the question becomes how do you break down the declared value between shipping waves. Do you say $75/$75 (or $70/$70 for an EB) or some other number.

The subtotal on the shipping invoice does a pretty good job of breaking down the price of the package. Just sayin'.

Taxes, taxes, taxes. Nobody wants to pay them, the government wants to collect them, and everyone gets to complain one way or the other.

 solkan wrote:


The subtotal on the shipping invoice does a pretty good job of breaking down the price of the package. Just sayin'.

Taxes, taxes, taxes. Nobody wants to pay them, the government wants to collect them, and everyone gets to complain one way or the other.

Did you get a shipping invoice with yours? All I got was the inventory list with the pledge total inside the box. No shipping invoice.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
I should point out that of these, only #4 does not involve Mantic committing fraud.

Not necessarily; KS rewards are rather different in that they're rewards for an investment; they technically only have to put the raw material cost for production (which could easily be $20 for just some paper and plastic, as most of the cost is the steel mold tooling and such)... and come to think of it, a KS pledge reward is technically a gift, right?

No, it is not a gift. You are giving them money, and in exchange they are giving you a product. Would you have given Mantic $150 without asking for anything in return? Would Mantic have sent you these miniatures if you had not paid for them? No.

Personally, I wouldn't have, but KS is expressly not a shopping cart online store... and many Kickstarters have pledge levels where the pledger does get nothing in return, or indeed a "gift" like a "I supported Veronica Mars Kickstarter" for a pledge level, or something.

But it seems to me that Mantic could put "12 pence" (or whatever) as the declared value on a giant box of sprues if that's how much the HIPS plastic beads raw material cost was, for instance, since it's not a retail sale (you're investing into the production)

edit: lemme append that I literally have zero idea about anybody's customs laws and they could all say "retail value regardless" but that would suck for someone order raw material widgets from out of country to then combine them with local manufacturing.

Certainly for stuff coming INTO the UK, customs regards gifts/donations etc as being worth the appropriate retail value

(so KS or not $150 pledge would be regarded as worth $150, or possibly more)

and asking people/companies to miss-declare things is a specific legal offense

Triple9 wrote:

 solkan wrote:


The subtotal on the shipping invoice does a pretty good job of breaking down the price of the package. Just sayin'.

Taxes, taxes, taxes. Nobody wants to pay them, the government wants to collect them, and everyone gets to complain one way or the other.

Did you get a shipping invoice with yours? All I got was the inventory list with the pledge total inside the box. No shipping invoice.

"Order Total: $X" where X was the total for the things shipped, rather than the total pledged for or ordered; and a list of contents.

That would be a shipping invoice. Not as fancy or itemized as the one that I received from Outlaw Miniatures with their stuff, but close enough for government work.

Edit: I'm pretty sure customs people are trained to treat anything that even possibly looks like an invoice as an invoice. I walked off a plane carrying a piece of paper with a table on it, and had to quite firmly and politely tell an official, "No, this is a class schedule, not an invoice." If they found the piece of paper with the Mantic logo and the words "Order Total" on it, that would be cause for concern and paperwork.

I just spoke to fedex.


Customs opened up the box and found that the $20 value didn't; match the paperwork that they found inside the box.
They are asking for proof of purchase and if it doesn't match the value that they have they won't release the package.

Oh my.

I'll have to get something from Mantic, because the only thing that I have is the Amazon payment for the full amount with no breakdown.

Silly question - was the Compendium supposed to be this wave?

Nope! No compendium, no AI Deck.

Just the 4 faction cards and the rulebook.

No the compendium will contain everything including wave 2 stuff so it will ship with wave 2.

Added the maurader pyro to the maurader faction.Is there anything else that i need to add, or alter?

Has anyone managed to get the robot MVP yet? I wound up with the female Asterian MVP in my box. Man, that figure did not come out well. Details were really soft and huge mold lines all over the front of her. I'm kind of tempted to ask if I can get a replacement.

 judgedoug wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't have, but KS is expressly not a shopping cart online store... and many Kickstarters have pledge levels where the pledger does get nothing in return, or indeed a "gift" like a "I supported Veronica Mars Kickstarter" for a pledge level, or something.

But it seems to me that Mantic could put "12 pence" (or whatever) as the declared value on a giant box of sprues if that's how much the HIPS plastic beads raw material cost was, for instance, since it's not a retail sale (you're investing into the production)

edit: lemme append that I literally have zero idea about anybody's customs laws and they could all say "retail value regardless" but that would suck for someone order raw material widgets from out of country to then combine them with local manufacturing.

Is this genuine confusion, or are you just playing dumb because you don't like the answers you're hearing?

Ashitaka wrote:
I just spoke to fedex.


Customs opened up the box and found that the $20 value didn't; match the paperwork that they found inside the box.
They are asking for proof of purchase and if it doesn't match the value that they have they won't release the package.

Oh my.

I'll have to get something from Mantic, because the only thing that I have is the Amazon payment for the full amount with no breakdown.

Customs generally suck. Your best bet is, like you said, contacting Mantic. Don't try to deal with customs on your own.

~Tim?

I went through this with the first part of my KoW pledge. I e-mailed Mantic and they sent me an invoice which I then forwarded to the customs office. Mantic is pretty much always responsive to these requests, so drop them a line.

Ashitaka wrote:
I just spoke to fedex.


Customs opened up the box and found that the $20 value didn't; match the paperwork that they found inside the box.
They are asking for proof of purchase and if it doesn't match the value that they have they won't release the package.

Oh my.

I'll have to get something from Mantic, because the only thing that I have is the Amazon payment for the full amount with no breakdown.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't have, but KS is expressly not a shopping cart online store... and many Kickstarters have pledge levels where the pledger does get nothing in return, or indeed a "gift" like a "I supported Veronica Mars Kickstarter" for a pledge level, or something.

But it seems to me that Mantic could put "12 pence" (or whatever) as the declared value on a giant box of sprues if that's how much the HIPS plastic beads raw material cost was, for instance, since it's not a retail sale (you're investing into the production)

edit: lemme append that I literally have zero idea about anybody's customs laws and they could all say "retail value regardless" but that would suck for someone order raw material widgets from out of country to then combine them with local manufacturing.

Is this genuine confusion, or are you just playing dumb because you don't like the answers you're hearing?

I could honestly give two gaks about the answers, as being in the USA, I pay zero customs fees, and never have, regardless of the value of the order, including from courier shipments from Fedex international shipments (including when I bought an expensive non-blood diamond from a UK jeweler for my fiancee's engagement ring).

What I am wondering is what the actual declared goods for any item would be coming into a country that has customs fees. Kickstarter isn't an online store, it's an investment vehicle; your pledge rewards are often tangible goods, certainly. But if your pledge expressly went to paying tooling costs, then wouldn't the value of the goods only be the raw materials cost, since the pledge rewards are not specifically a retail good purchased via a retail store?

So quick question... How soon after getting the first shipping notification with the dud tracking number did you all get the notification with the correct number?

baritowned wrote:
So quick question... How soon after getting the first shipping notification with the dud tracking number did you all get the notification with the correct number?

About one weekend. (That's what it was for me. About two days.)

You get the first one when the put the box together and it gets registered in the system. You get the second one when FedEx actually picks it up.

baritowned wrote:
So quick question... How soon after getting the first shipping notification with the dud tracking number did you all get the notification with the correct number?

i got the initial email, and after about a week, it started updating with tracking info
once it started moving, i had the box within a day (it started moving yesterday, and it reached me today)

 solkan wrote:

baritowned wrote:
So quick question... How soon after getting the first shipping notification with the dud tracking number did you all get the notification with the correct number?

About one weekend. (That's what it was for me. About two days.)

You get the first one when the put the box together and it gets registered in the system. You get the second one when FedEx actually picks it up.

Oh, okay... So since my first notice was Wednesday, then (in theory) I should get the second notice tomorrow? And do we get Saturday delivery with this?

baritowned wrote:

 solkan wrote:

baritowned wrote:
So quick question... How soon after getting the first shipping notification with the dud tracking number did you all get the notification with the correct number?

About one weekend. (That's what it was for me. About two days.)

You get the first one when the put the box together and it gets registered in the system. You get the second one when FedEx actually picks it up.

Oh, okay... So since my first notice was Wednesday, then (in theory) I should get the second notice tomorrow? And do we get Saturday delivery with this?

I got one, and only one, email on wednesday, stating today as the est. delivery date. Today the same tracking number was updated showing it was picked up today, to be delivered tomorrow.

I would guess yours will be the same thing. Use the original tracking number in fedex and see what pops up!

(I expect that they worked out the bugs and people only get one email now)

I only got one tracking number. It showed the package stayed with Mantic for 9 days or so. Once Mantic gave it to FedEx it showed (very quick) movement and got to me the next day.

All right, now that I have it sort of sorted out.

Basically Canadian Customs is serious and they are not even close to happy about this. FedEx has been in contact with Mantic and myself. After running through the options it looks like I'm going to have to pick up the paperwork from the FedEx depot and then drive to customs and fight tooth and nail for my box of restic crack.

If I somehow manage to convince customs that I am myself, and that I paid for the product, and I present them with a detailed list of what's in the box. (None of which I have at this moment other then ID) I may be able to convince them to release my box into the country... at which point its back in the car to the FedEx depot to finally get my hands on the box.

I'm considering starting a P&M blog about the shipping process to chronicle my adventure through Red Tape Mountain tomorrow at 8AM. I believe if you’re going to get out there and fight beuraucratic injustice stopping you from getting restic crack, you should do it as early as possible before the pencil pushers have had that first sip of coffee. That way you can really piss them off, and let them loose on your fellow man once your issue is resolved.

In all seriousness though I don't fault Mantic, FedEx or the good people at Canadian Customs for any of this... I blame Royal Mail. The damn post office is right behind my house...

More updates to come as this story progresses.

So. Package received. No time to open the darn thing til probably Saturday. I hopefully won't be reliving my KoW angst.

Damn that's pretty horrible Operator. Hope you get it sorted soon.