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Yeah, even with the online guide it's not easy to figure out what's what and how many of each you should have. Like there's an extra Plague G1 in there simply because it's in the same bag as the three G2s in the booster bundle. Turns out I'm not missing nearly as much as I first thought - just a bag of Marauder ripper suits and a complete set of Enforcers (including cards).

Aren't enforcers just supposed to be two bags?

and the rest come later?

A chap in the mantic section of the forum did a really useful guide for Strike Team level pledges

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/567758.page

Think mine was dead on, although got an extra Dreadball MVP - got 2 of the same guy, although I already had him

That is seriously handy, thank you! I already did a "lay everything out and count bags", but was still unsure of some things. As has been pointed out, the "bonus" minis from buying double faction boosters are a bit of a mess, since they're split across multiple bags and these bags frequently contain extra models.

As a general point, are people happy about how the models are packaged? I have a mate who refuses to ever back a Mantic Kickstarter again, after a group of us went in on the Dreadball one for a 3x $150 level, and he had to spend several hours separating out a mishmash of stuff that had all been thrown in together, to get everyone the teams they had ordered and to check for missing parts.

I understand when one or two-man teams like Heresy or Hasselfree send you stuff that's been put into a little bag, (although even then it's usually one bag per model), but is this desirable when we're talking about a boardgame? Even a "pre-release" version of one? Personally, I'm slightly unhappy with how long it has taken to work out that I got what I ordered (or which wave it should be in), on top of the extra prep-time for restic. But then I have memories of popping figures out of blisters, gluing on an arm and the base and then spraying them...

I'll agree with your friend on the point that these things could certainly be packaged/arranged/organized a LOT better.

I recently received my WWX KS Pledge, and that was put together a lot nicer than this one was.

It appears as if most Deadzone pledges were really 'thrown in the box', and there appear to be a lot of people with missing/wrong items.

I don't think it will stop me from ever backing another Mantic KS, but it is another thing Mantic needs to work on to get to that proverbial 'next level'.

I'm personally finished with Mantic until they are capable of taking my expenditure of money a bit more seriously. If I were to walk into a game shop, see the deadzone box and buy it because it looks cool, I would open the box and be presented with numerous little baggies of unidentified miniatures and no printout that explains what goes where; even the hard plastic terrain has no basic construction guide to follow. Not much of an introduction to a company and their range when a casual purchaser is left scouring the internet for content and assembly instructuons when every competing board game on the market does so.

I thought I had everything but after checking my pledge I seem to be missing the first wave boosters I purchased.

Think a lot of this will improve when hard plastics come along, much easier to inventory and check a bunch of sprues rather than a ton of tiny fiddly loose components spread across multiple bags. With a sprue you can be reasonably confident that all the components on it are present and not miscast without having to take more than a quick glance.

TBH, I never even got around to checking the components inside my KoW KS stuff, just the bags themselves.

It seems to be a much bigger issue with Kickstarters as Mantic hires a lot of temp staff who are more likely to be unfamiliar with wargaming and/or warehouse work itself.

When I worked at a (terrible) book distribution place if we made three packaging mistakes over the course of the entire time spent there, that was it, fired. If Mantic applied those standards they wouldn't have any staff left. :p

 scarletsquig wrote:
Think a lot of this will improve when hard plastics come along, much easier to inventory and check a bunch of sprues rather than a ton of tiny fiddly loose components spread across multiple bags. With a sprue you can be reasonably confident that all the components on it are present and not miscast without having to take more than a quick glance.

TBH, I never even got around to checking the components inside my KoW KS stuff, just the bags themselves.

Here's hoping, it really kills the enthusiasm when you go to play and stuffs missing.

 Alpharius wrote:

It appears as if most Deadzone pledges were really 'thrown in the box', and there appear to be a lot of people with missing/wrong items.

I am still trying to figure out what I am missing

Mantic packing is not good.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Think a lot of this will improve when hard plastics come along, much easier to inventory and check a bunch of sprues rather than a ton of tiny fiddly loose components spread across multiple bags. With a sprue you can be reasonably confident that all the components on it are present and not miscast without having to take more than a quick glance.

And yet, three of my hard plastic terrain sprues were missing 1-3 pieces each which were not loose in the box. There were a few others missing a piece or two where the piece was in the box.

Sorry, it isn't the material or format of the material, it is a mindset. 'Chuck a bunch of sheet in the box fast' is a lot different than 'QC the components and then carefully pack the boxes with the right ones'.

I would point out that this could be (and probably is) a case of a noisy majority. Even if we took everyone who has had an issue and mentioned it over the net, I doubt that it would add up to more than 5% of the total orders. And managing two warehouses in two countries, things will slip through.

Additionally Mantic is now putting more time aside to cover this sort of thing (although this never stops complaints of late deliveries?) as evidenced by the Mars attacks KS.

On instruction leaflets, I did make a point to ask a while back about this and why they weren't in. To cut a long story short, printing costs. Now I'm not sure how valid this answer still is, but it's a point to consider.

In business, a 5% screw up rate is actually really bad.

 sukura636 wrote:
I would point out that this could be (and probably is) a case of a noisy majority. Even if we took everyone who has had an issue and mentioned it over the net, I doubt that it would add up to more than 5% of the total orders.

How about the Men at Arms? A 100% failure rate, and they still sent them out.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 sukura636 wrote:
I would point out that this could be (and probably is) a case of a noisy majority. Even if we took everyone who has had an issue and mentioned it over the net, I doubt that it would add up to more than 5% of the total orders.

How about the Men at Arms? A 100% failure rate, and they still sent them out.

Completely different issue. Are we having the same conversation atm ?

Not sure - but Mantic remains decidedly 'garage' when many of us want them to Up Their Game a bit more.

Maybe they'd lose a bit of their 'charm' (arguable), but the increase in quality would do wonders for everyone involved.

Are we sure that there won't be instructions in the "official" release of the game? Do we know that they won't fix the packaging? I'm legitimitley asking here. I got the pre release version, and mine was also just thrown in the box like the KS ones were, but I'm wondering if they will do that for a retail release. I don't know if its feasible to fix it now, but I agree with agnosto that the way my box was packed would be very off putting to someone who bought the game off the shelf.

Money is tight on a KS, we all know that. But they should definitley spring for some instructions for the regular release stuff. Its the little things that go a long way sometimes.

improvements while desirable would take both extra time, and extra cash

I wonder whether extra sales from being better would offset the loss of sales from being more expensive ?

Quite a few of us have brought up the presentation issues on both the manticblog and Jake Thornton's Quirkworthy website - for example, I compared it to the Drop zone Commander starter set which comes with loads of game aides

However, it is worth saying there's going to be a big difference with the actual retail release, for one thing, the box itself is going to be near half the depth, I think.

I really doubt that better presentation and packaging would represent a cost so great that it would offset any benefits it would bring - both to Mantic and potential customers.

The same goes for some simple terrain explanations/instructions.

If Mantic really wants to continue to grow, and continue to be taken seriously, they're really going to have to get a bit more...professional?

I would agree with that Alph. Including instructions and labelling bags is not a great deal to ask of a company.

I think when you earn over a mil on a kick starter need to realise you have gone beyond a garage business in terms of level of support and expectation.

I feel like Mantic's business slogan should be 'Almost' instead of 'Building Bigger Armies' or whatever it is.

Jumping into hard plastics was really risky, and they did some very nice stuff (stylistic concerns aside). Then, Elves riding toy dragons.
Dreadball material switch outs without mentioning it. They knew that players didn't like that and STILL waited to say anything about the fact they were doing that with some Deadzone stuff too.
Men at Arms...
The Deadzone packaging is horrible. Is it really too much trouble labeling the invoice with the actual name of the add-ons, instead of the generic terms like 'Plague2'?
Acrylic counters. I wouldn't pay $1 for them if they were in a discount bin, much less the amount I actually spent.

Like many people I had at least one packing error. Instead of Rebs2 I received ExtraRebs2. With names like that, for unmarked packs of stuff that look the same at first and second glance, it's no surprise. Mantic should have looked at Antenociti, who did it right with clearly labeled separate and secure packing.

Mantic is always so close to doing something great... Then, almost.

Past big boxes like Vor, Void, Warzone, etc. were really well done and I can't imagine they had the resources Mantic did after the KS. I wish Mantic would take a breath and get it right because they could really be great.

 Dr Mathias wrote:
I feel like Mantic's business slogan should be 'Almost' instead of 'Building Bigger Armies' or whatever it is.

Jumping into hard plastics was really risky, and they did some very nice stuff (stylistic concerns aside). Then, Elves riding toy dragons.
Dreadball material switch outs without mentioning it. They knew that players didn't like that and STILL waited to say anything about the fact they were doing that with some Deadzone stuff too.
Men at Arms...
The Deadzone packaging is horrible. Is it really too much trouble labeling the invoice with the actual name of the add-ons, instead of the generic terms like 'Plague2'?
Acrylic counters. I wouldn't pay $1 for them if they were in a discount bin, much less the amount I actually spent.

Like many people I had at least one packing error. Instead of Rebs2 I received ExtraRebs2. With names like that, for unmarked packs of stuff that look the same at first and second glance, it's no surprise. Mantic should have looked at Antenociti, who did it right with clearly labeled separate and secure packing.

Mantic is always so close to doing something great... Then, almost.

Past big boxes like Vor, Void, Warzone, etc. were really well done and I can't imagine they had the resources Mantic did after the KS. I wish Mantic would take a breath and get it right because they could really be great.

Spot on Dr. M - Exalted!

And yeah, I think you've hit on something here...

Mantic. Almost.

Organization could be better, and instruction sheets would be a good idea. In general, I believe consumers with legitimate issues should air them, and I get annoyed at "patriotic" shills who think any critique needs to be silenced in the name of company loyalty. (That's a commentary on no one I've seen posting here, by the way. One of the reasons I like this forum.)

But at the risk of sounding like a shill, I also have to be honest about my own experience, and the Deadzone KS has been a good one for me overall. Inventorying my Deadzone shipment items was a chore, but I did get everything I ordered, and mine was a substantial order. The only thing I was missing were two refrigerated crates, which I've contacted Antenociti about and they've promised to replace. I also had two broken figures, which I expect Mantic will replace and am not worried about.

That should mean diddly squat to people who did have problems, and it doesn't mean I don't recognize areas for improvement (more connectors, better organization), but for what it's worth, Mantic did right by me.

 Alpharius wrote:

And yeah, I think you've hit on something here...

Mantic. Almost.

Thirded

 squall018 wrote:
Are we sure that there won't be instructions in the "official" release of the game? Do we know that they won't fix the packaging? I'm legitimitley asking here. I got the pre release version, and mine was also just thrown in the box like the KS ones were, but I'm wondering if they will do that for a retail release. I don't know if its feasible to fix it now, but I agree with agnosto that the way my box was packed would be very off putting to someone who bought the game off the shelf.

Money is tight on a KS, we all know that. But they should definitley spring for some instructions for the regular release stuff. Its the little things that go a long way sometimes.

They said that the actual printing of the game will have a smaller box, I believe. The first 10,000 - KS and prerelease - are in the massive box.
Wouldn't surprise me they spent the extra month or two making the official release a little tighter.

 Compel wrote:
Quite a few of us have brought up the presentation issues on both the manticblog and Jake Thornton's Quirkworthy website - for example, I compared it to the Drop zone Commander starter set which comes with loads of game aides

I think the importance of this can't be over-estimated. That Mantic have ways of getting feedback to them is vitally important, and also that they are a) acknowledging there is a problem with a product, that it can be improved and b ) that they are doing something about it.

It feels to me like they are a growing company and they are still trying to find their feet. There are several areas where they have fallen short, but at least there is a desire to improve and learn from mistakes. It was quite heartening reading in the other thread about the reasons for the problems with the Men at Arms and goblins. While this is scant consolation for people who ordered those models, and in a lot of cases are now selling or having to do involved conversion work, it bodes well for future releases.

I think Mantic is now at something of a cross-roads. They made money early on by being a cheaper alternative to GW games. Now, they need to keep their prices competitive, and at the same time try to carve out a name for themselves. I think Dreadball and Deadzone are big steps in that direction (they feel much more like a games company now, rather than their other, possibly unkind, label of 'GW knock-offs') but no doubt there is still some way to go, not least in the overall feel of professionalism with releases like Deadzone. Will be very interesting to see what Mars Attacks looks like when that finally arrives, and how KoW and Warpath develop over the next year or so.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'll agree with your friend on the point that these things could certainly be packaged/arranged/organized a LOT better.

I recently received my WWX KS Pledge, and that was put together a lot nicer than this one was.

It appears as if most Deadzone pledges were really 'thrown in the box', and there appear to be a lot of people with missing/wrong items.

I don't think it will stop me from ever backing another Mantic KS, but it is another thing Mantic needs to work on to get to that proverbial 'next level'.

If you look at the Beast of War youtube video from the open house, you can see how the stuff was organized and going to be shipped out. Maybe Warren personally mismatched some Dakkites' packages during his "Oh shiny! Let me pick it up!" tour through the packing rooms.

 Pacific wrote:

It feels to me like they are a growing company and they are still trying to find their feet. There are several areas where they have fallen short, but at least there is a desire to improve and learn from mistakes.

I think that phase only lasts so long, and at this point, Mantic should be past it.

While Deadzone certainly redeemed them in many people's eyes, there's still work to be done.

Seriously though, if anyone's disappointment is sufficient to make them want to dump their $50/bogof plague booster set, hit me up
Really, I could kick myself for not getting the right faction boosters right off the bat; it's exactly that stuff which is still nowhere to be seen at retail.
At this point I wouldn't even mind paying full RRP for some of that plague stuff too much, but the option just isn't there. Seems second survey might actually be the first real opportunity to get a hold of it now :/