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NTRabbit wrote:
So much whining over so very little.

I got an email receipt for my submission of the missing pieces form, and that's all I need for now. I don't need my hand held every minute of the day.

As for materials, I prefer hard plastic over restic, so as long as they stick to the hard plastic for basic units, restic for leaders/large units, I'm not fussed. I would think twice if it was an entire KoW army of restic though.

Well, I guess all those people who have yet to receive ANYTHING are just whiners and should stfu. Mantic's talking about the next Kickstarter and they have yet to sort out all the issues from KoW much less DB and now DZ. That's an indication of stupidity or how little they care about their customers.

Hi guys!! New to Dakka here- and not usually a fan of forums, but my gaming group have recommended I keep in touch with one

SO I come over here to find out the latest rumours on Mantic stuff (I really like everything Mantic have done so far) and find that this Nkelsch guy is just insulting people who are trying to explain to him that a) he is not the only person to have experienced problems, and b) just because he wasn't made a priority should that mean that Mantic are total smeg!!

Seriously, it seems as though you really have it in for the company. Why bother continuing to comment? Why bother continuing to fund them? We know you've had problems- which is not good, don't get me wrong, but if it bother you that much, walk away and don't look back!! I'm sure you won't miss Mantic, and they won't miss you!!

This is a HOBBY, and as such is meant to be FUN!! Really, honestly, by continuing to run Mantic down on here, you're just spoiling it for yourself. Go back to the parts of this awesome hobby that you do enjoy, and have fun again.

Life's too short.

Why bother joining a forum just to chastise folks?

 CptJake wrote:
Why bother joining a forum just to chastise folks?

He asked a question and established he was new and where his opinions on matter lies which informs why he's asking his questions. There's no need to be rude in return, as that doesn't help anything and stands a good chance of keeping our community narrow. Tolerance with new people, or else they'll never become old people.

So then, why DOES nkelsch black knight (if that's not the term it should be) in every Mantic thread? Because he had a bad experience and he wants others to be aware of it. Does it get to be a bit of a bothersome broken record to people who follow the thread? Sure, but he's of the opinion that others should be warned about what happened so that, if those same things matter to them, they are not similarly disappointed. He can be more than slightly antagonistic when presenting this information, and some would say he often crosses the line into just plain old being an ass, but those voices should be heard too especially when the discussion turns to new products or new initiatives for people who've come to the thread lately and don't want to read 100+ pages of discussion. New customers might be scared away, but I see nothing wrong with informing people of the facts of a given situation with a company. Where they tend to annoy me is when they take their opinions, exaggerate them to the nth degree and then present it as fact. However, humanity does that constantly with everything so hopefully intelligent consumers know how to harvest the wheat from the chaff in their opinions.

Were this the Mantic sub-forum here (which you should also visit if you haven't...it's way down the list), then I might be more inclined to say that he should really go elsewhere since he has no interest in doing anything positive with the company. In N&R, I tend to see it as "If Mantic didn't want people being negative about their news, they should really stop giving those people ammunition to be negative with" and sadly, Mantic has not done a particularly great job there of late.

If nkelsch and other's attitude in the thread bother you, you can place them on ignore and you will not see their posts unless someone else quotes them. That's also an advisable course of action for people who post uninteresting walls of text (hi! how are you?) and allows you to tailor the forums as you see fit.

Welcome to Dakka if you choose to stay around!

I wish you could employ the IGNORE command to specific threads. A lot of people involved in the back-and-forth-that-isn't-remotely-news-or-rumors-and-frankly-gets-somewehat-annoying-regardless-of-how-I-feel-or-which-side-I-agree-with make useful, meaningful, or interesting posts elsewhere... but I really just want to see news and or rumors here

Oh well, I've done nothing myself in this post but complain, so bit of a hypocritical stance.

Have we had any Discussion yet about the third (and presumably final) iteration of the 6 named Mercs/Heroes Jake recently put up on his blog? I like the simplified version of the Orbital drop dwarf, a hit something along the lines of the TK-Zero and then he moves around with a jump pack after that... instead of complicating things with the whole "end turn in midflight" thing. It would be cool, but maybe too much to work with.

Thanks Krinsath!! That's actually extremely useful!! I totally agree with you- I think it's great to advise people of pitfalls that others have encountered. It just seemed to me that he laid into that Sukura dude rather thickly, when all SUkura was doing was trying to explain. There are a couple of the Pathfinders near me, and they have always been honest and up front with their explanations whenever I've had a question.

It didn't seem to me that nkelsch wasn't so much letting people know about his experience, he was actively seeking to get people to stop buying stuff from Mantic or funding their KS campaigns- which I thought was incredibly unethical.

But then, I'm very much a "say your piece and move on" kinda guy, rather than bang on flogging a dead horse.

I shall definitely have to find my way over to the Mantic board as you suggest!!

nkelsch has had issues going back to DreadBall where he did receive some egregiously bad figures so he's had a while of grinding his axe in this matter. He also has a bad habit of accusing anyone who disagrees with him a Mantic shill or a water-carrier for Mantic (see also: the part in my earlier post referring to him sometimes being kind of an ass). One could argue that he has said his part and should move on, but it is his life. If he wants to waste it bagging on a company he's repeatedly said he's not doing business with rather than finding one he prefers and dealing with them, then that's his prerogative. Kind of like the guy who dumps a girl because she's a ditz, but still feels the need to yell at her, you know? Up to them how they want to spend that time and even if we don't understand/agree with it, it's their choice to make and we should try to respect that as long as they're not outright lying, which I do not believe is a sin you can lump on his door.

It takes all kinds though, and on the whole we're better off for having the disagreements and arguments than we are for getting into group-think. We just have to have the mods to make sure things stay civil, and the crew here is reasonably decent when they're not accidentally deleting major threads.

On the topic of Mantic the company, I think I've been hit by every snafu they've had in DB and DZ (didn't back KoW, the aesthetic is not my cup of tea) that didn't involve just being forgotten. I have a lot of missing models from DZ, I got mixed materials teams in S3 and my S2 boosters didn't show up until just before DeadZone did. In the end, such things don't bother me, because life is too short and none of the mix-ups have kept me from enjoying what I have. However, I fully understand the people who decide it IS worth getting worked up about, and I do wish that Mantic would stop dampening my experience with their products.

Now, I've got to see a man about some card sleeves...

I think at least 60 of the 159 pages in this thread are the flogging of dead horses. People with legitimate concerns need an outlet to express their frustration, there is no doubt or argument. I just wish that way back in the line someone had successfully crafted a "Mantic Games: Concerns and Issues" style thread where such argument and debate may take place without burying potential news

Dylan Varr wrote:
Hi guys!! New to Dakka here- and not usually a fan of forums, but my gaming group have recommended I keep in touch with one

SO I come over here to find out the latest rumours on Mantic stuff (I really like everything Mantic have done so far) and find that this Nkelsch guy is just insulting people who are trying to explain to him that a) he is not the only person to have experienced problems, and b) just because he wasn't made a priority should that mean that Mantic are total smeg!!

Seriously, it seems as though you really have it in for the company. Why bother continuing to comment? Why bother continuing to fund them? We know you've had problems- which is not good, don't get me wrong, but if it bother you that much, walk away and don't look back!! I'm sure you won't miss Mantic, and they won't miss you!!

This is a HOBBY, and as such is meant to be FUN!! Really, honestly, by continuing to run Mantic down on here, you're just spoiling it for yourself. Go back to the parts of this awesome hobby that you do enjoy, and have fun again.

Life's too short.

Because tens of thousands of dollars have been taken from Dakkaites over the years due to businesses who runt he gambit of total frauds to innocent incompetents. And one of the great strengths of Dakka is the long documentation on these companies and their experiences.

I dislike the attitude of shills and sockpuppets shouting down legitimate criticism or issues so not only are the people incentivized to 'go away' but that their feedback not be available to others.

It is great for people who say 'they had good experiences'
It is great for people to say 'I expected this level of service and was disapointed'

It is not great for people to basically post 'STFU and stop complaining' or 'your issues are isolated and no one else anywhere is having similar issues so it must be your fault.' while in turn doing everything to suppress those 'similar' issues from being exposed or discussed.

I have never once said I want mantic to fail. I have even said and have purchased some of their products (by retail so if/when they were damaged I could return them) I personally feel mantic is in over their head and are not malicious and not even incompetent, just 'cutting corners' as business model. As a customer with a high hobby budget, 'price' is not a huge motivator for me. I value quality of material, casting, sculpt, game mechanics and customer service over price. When I see things which could be done which would not impact their price point drastically, that kinda makes me sad. They have a serious communications issue which could be rectified and it is clear they simply don't feel the need to. They also didn't seem to feel the need to increase the QC on the products so people still are at random getting anywhere from 'great' to 'unusably damaged models.'

I feel like they could still be king of inexpensive models without being the king of cheap models.

Sometimes I feel the people defending Mantic are actually doing the company a disservice, as you put words in Mantic's mouth and write checks which they then have to cash (which has been the result of many KS announcements due to overzealous white knighting causing issues for mantic) as well as killing valid input which never reaches mantic. Don't take it personally when someone has a legitimate issue with the KS or the company or the quality of the product and attempt to squash them. If someone is trying to silence complains, especially valid ones, I am going to call you on it. We don't need that on Dakka, especially with lots of corrupt and crooked frauds who prey on our community, the more above board experiences of real people is gold for protecting our community.

I think that while it does get tiresome, it is also a clear indication that Mantic has a LOT to work on, in terms of...just about everything.

So, it is nice that we can have Mantic Representation that is Official, Semi-Official, and whatever else.

Just hopefully not only when they've got an active Kickstarter though.

 GrimDork wrote:
People with legitimate concerns need an outlet to express their frustration, there is no doubt or argument. I just wish that way back in the line someone had successfully crafted a "Mantic Games: Concerns and Issues" style thread where such argument and debate may take place without burying potential news

Ive often thought a kickstarter results thread for Mantic may take some of the heat out of this thread as until peoples issues are resolved it will just go round in circles and news and updates maybe buried. Plus you can always point people to the relevent thread rather than wade through the 100+ pages here.

There are kickstarter threads to use, in the Mantic subforum, and some people do use them:

Mars Attacks - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/551582.page
Deadzone - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/516236.page
Dreadball - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/472000.page
LOKA - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/509610.page
Kings of War - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/451718.page

Well, the Dreadball one is locked, but that was back when KS threads remained in N&R after the KS had ended rather than being moved off to a subforum. And back when this was just the Dreadball N&R thread and nothing else.

 Alpharius wrote:
I think that while it does get tiresome, it is also a clear indication that Mantic has a LOT to work on, in terms of...just about everything.

So, it is nice that we can have Mantic Representation that is Official, Semi-Official, and whatever else.

Just hopefully not only when they've got an active Kickstarter though.

Has James been spotted since Mars Attacks Kickstarter closed?

James was eaten by a Grue.

Grue Story.

Did he forget his torch when he went into the dark warehouse after hours?

It can't be that, if there were any Vermyn in the warehouse they'd have been boxed up and shipped (possibly to the wrong customers) when they sent out the first wave of deadzone

 judgedoug wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Heh. Nice way to say "Kickstarter backers won't be getting this one, sorry!"

Well, I mean, why would we? It wasn't part of the Kickstarter. I feel I have about as much right to getting it for 'free' was I would the new Dreadball scenario pack thing.

Because it appear to be the same rules in a slightly different format/layout, basically. I'm not exactly upset, but it does rankle in the same way that GW's approach does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Polonius wrote:
And it's becoming clearer that Mantic is shutting itself off from normal communication channels, at least based on people's posts here.

What mantic should be doing is rolling out articles, videos, and podcasts that actually help people use their product. Examples:
1) a visual checklist for all parts, so backers can inventory their boxes
2) assembly guides, explaining what parts go where
3) Videos on the hot water method, gap filling, and other tricks to overcome the limits of restic

Instead, we hear about another bloody kickstarter. I'm getting tired of hoping the next stuff will be good. I want to make the best out of what I have, and I'd like it if Mantic did something to help that out.

1/2/3 are all so bloody obvious that it's a wonder why they haven't done them. It also appears that James has dropped off the radar, but I'm sure he'll magically reappear when it's KS time again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Krinsath wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Why bother joining a forum just to chastise folks?

He asked a question and established he was new and where his opinions on matter lies which informs why he's asking his questions. There's no need to be rude in return, as that doesn't help anything and stands a good chance of keeping our community narrow. Tolerance with new people, or else they'll never become old people.

So then, why DOES nkelsch black knight (if that's not the term it should be) in every Mantic thread? Because he had a bad experience and he wants others to be aware of it.

Black Hat (Critical) thinking is a good thing. nkelsch might go overboard at times, but then again, so do many of the Yellow Hat (Optimistic) thinkers.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
And it's becoming clearer that Mantic is shutting itself off from normal communication channels, at least based on people's posts here.

What mantic should be doing is rolling out articles, videos, and podcasts that actually help people use their product. Examples:
1) a visual checklist for all parts, so backers can inventory their boxes
2) assembly guides, explaining what parts go where
3) Videos on the hot water method, gap filling, and other tricks to overcome the limits of restic

Instead, we hear about another bloody kickstarter. I'm getting tired of hoping the next stuff will be good. I want to make the best out of what I have, and I'd like it if Mantic did something to help that out.

1/2/3 are all so bloody obvious that it's a wonder why they haven't done them. It also appears that James has dropped off the radar, but I'm sure he'll magically reappear when it's KS time again.

So, everyone missed the post where I pointed out that they've already done 1) and 3) with a link to the former and a great big embedded video for the latter?

Can you link me to the visual checklist for DreadBall season 3?

That way when they finally unscrew themselves and send me my missing items I'll know what is in those poorly packed unlabeled bags.

Unfortunately there isn't one for dreadball, you'll probably get a hefty pile of metal all in one bubblewrap bag as per the KoW KS.

NTRabbit wrote:
So much whining over so very little.

Yeah. Getting what you ordered is so overrated.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

NTRabbit wrote:
So much whining over so very little.

Yeah. Getting what you ordered is so overrated.

You pay money you expect to get what you ordered. Its the bare minimum you expect.

And Mantic is no longer a complete newcomer, as they started rolling out Elves in what, 2009?

Five years and three (four if you count Loka, which you should) Kickstarters later, having basic logistics break down is worrying.

Compare this to the Reaper Kickstarter, which had slightly fewer moving parts, but a far higher success rate of correct shipments. Those models also all managed to meet or even exceed expectations, but that's a topic for another day.

I'm a big fan of Mantic. I thougth they showed a lot of promise early on, I thought the Kickstarters drummed up a lot of excitement, and I think KoW is a rock solid game thats a ton of fun. The Deadzone minis, while plagued by casting flaws, are great looking and ooze character. I've money in the pot here, so to speak, and I want them to succeed.

That all said, and I do think Deadzone is a great product, it's not something that Mantic needed to make. They want to make and sell big armies. I want to buy and build big armies. Deadzone is a great little skirmish game, and the market needed it. But I'm still waiting on Mantic to deliver on what they said they wanted to do all along.

Random question with Dreadball Extreme on the horizon..

Has Dreadball Ultimate hit retail yet? I have it on pre-order from Coolstuff and they have not updated their page on it since October..

-P

^ It has been out for ages!

 Polonius wrote:
And Mantic is no longer a complete newcomer, as they started rolling out Elves in what, 2009?

Correct, this year they'll have been around for 5 years. Time flies!

I'd agree that I'm impatient to see them getting back to the "building big armies" tagline.

I think they found that skirmish/board games make more money and more people are interested in them though.

You only have to produce a few different models in restic to make a board game, whereas a wargame requires a much larger investment.

Think Mantic's largest mistake was not launching the company with a sci-fi system instead of a Fantasy one. Market for sci-fi is much larger than fantasy.

Look at all the companies making 3rd party "not-40k" stuff, and compare them to the companies making "not Fantasy" stuff.. there's a lot more of the former.

 Azazelx wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Heh. Nice way to say "Kickstarter backers won't be getting this one, sorry!"

Well, I mean, why would we? It wasn't part of the Kickstarter. I feel I have about as much right to getting it for 'free' was I would the new Dreadball scenario pack thing.

Because it appear to be the same rules in a slightly different format/layout, basically. I'm not exactly upset, but it does rankle in the same way that GW's approach does.

Right but we got all the Deadzone rules for free in pdf format. (or at least I did - at my striker pledge level, I believe)... i don't even think it was a stretch goal was it? It was just like "Season 2 is here now! And everyone gets the PDF for free!" So someone giving me something for free, and then a year later, a new and improved version of it comes out... I don't feel entitled to get it for free and I certainly don't feel rankled that I don't get it for free. and Mantic said anyone who paid money for the PDF's from Wargames Vault or wherever gets whatever $$ the spent on the PDF's as credit towards the newfangled app version. The situation of "whatever money you spent on the previous version is credit you get towards the new product" seems 100% reasonable to me.

Seems legit^

I wanna see what they do with the KoW book. With the increasing likely hood that I'll get a tablet eventually... wouldn't mind picking up a full rulebook, especially if they deluxe it with the expansion books.

hey everybody I posted to the Mantic facebook page saying that Mantic should check out the sheer number of complaints here regarding missing parts and non-responsiveness and James replied with:

"Hi Doug, James here.

Sorry to hear there’s been a bit of unrest! As I’m sure you’re aware, we’ve been incredibly busy since just before Christmas, so there’s a bit of a backlog of messages. However, we are getting there! Our contact forms (the emails that come through the website) are about two weeks behind at the minute; Sarah’s working as hard as she can, and is getting support from other team members to clear the messages. The Order Query Survey is being partitioned up depending on what sort of order it was; the LOKA Kickstarter ones and the website orders are currently being worked on, with DreadBall coming next, followed by Deadzone after the end of January. We left them until the end of January (and let people know they would have until then to complete the survey) so that anyone who got presents for Christmas but had a missing part or two had the chance to go through everything and see what’s missing. Once we’re past the deadline, we’ll get them printed out and handled by the warehouse.

Please don’t think I’m ignoring anyone because I think they’re “small potatoes”; it’s just that I’m as busy as everyone else is, so I don’t have time to go to each of the online forums and deal with everyone individually! We’ve set up the central contact point – that is, the “Contact Us” part of the website – so that everything comes through to a single location and gets dealt with in turn. Everyone who’s submitted something to either the Contact Form or the Order Survey Query will get an answer, there just might be a short wait while we get to them.

Hope that makes sense!

Cheers,
James"

2 weeks behind and they have not hit DreadBall feth ups yet? I don't think 2 weeks is accurate. Especially as mine was submitted via email late November then by their form very early December.

Oh well, I'm sure they'll eventually get to it.

 CptJake wrote:
2 weeks behind and they have not hit DreadBall feth ups yet? I don't think 2 weeks is accurate. Especially as mine was submitted via email late November then by their form very early December.

Oh well, I'm sure they'll eventually get to it.

I'm not making excuses, but sometimes stuff just gets lost. Or maybe they focused on DZ stuff instead of DB.

I'd let them get their heads above water and resubmit. It'd be ideal if they would respond quicker, but at this point I'd worry about trying to get a good response.