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@Fenris - Thanks for the tip! I've also had someone recommend aquarium sealant as a good clear glue to use. Some things for me to try.

Looks like the comments on the latest KS update are primarily a lot of "we'd rather wait for hard plastic ff/asterians" which is interesting. I threw in my 2 cents on the topic as well since I strongly agree.

It is probably too late to change anything for Deadzone, but it might be worth making your opinion heard if you agree since it could benefit the quality of the product in future if Mantic realises that it has patient backers who would prefer to wait for quality.

Certainly, Kingdom Death backers had no problems with the delays there to upgrade restic to hard plastic. I think Mantic just needs a little reassurance that we won't eat them alive if they miss a ship deadline by a month or two.

@drag- Actually, what's unfair is for Mantic to continually, arbitrarily use the term "plastic". Call it a unicorn, call it whatever you like. But you need to distinguish between the various materials you sell models in. They use injection molded polystyrene (glueable with plastic cement), hand cast resin, and PVC. Call the three whatever you like, but for goodness sake be consistent. They've done a "bait and switch" with these terms a number of times now, and it has created a distrust with the company's statements.

@squig- It should be obvious by now to them that people vastly prefer quality product slightly late to poor product exactly on-time. If it isn't yet, please pass that along for, you know, all of us

 scarletsquig wrote:
Quick semi-related note since clear plastic bases were discussed earlier - I've just had a chat with Renedra and they're quite interested in/ curious about the idea of running their 25mm round base sprue in clear plastic (although they're so busy at the moment it'll probably have to wait until after Salute to experiment with it)

Would anyone here be interested in buying something like that from them?

I've been inspired by GrimDork's project log and a similar topic in the DZ section of the Mantic forums to base *everything* sci-fi/ skirmish on clear plastic from now on, and I'm loving it.. the only holdup is the expense of laser cut acrylic (and it's not the ideal material either, scratches too easy, have to peel off smelly burnt plastic film from each side). Quite keen to buy around 1000 clear round bases myself (prep for the WP KS ).

I'd be interested in something like that. I'd need 40mm bases though.

Well I put my preference for hard plastic Asterians and FF in the comments for what it's worth. If enough people ask they might take notice.

Initially I was sad to see the deals weren't all available on the second survey, as my pledge had been screwed up initially. However after viewing a friends Deadzone bundle I wasn't all that enthused and I don't think they were too impressed either.

Hopefully Mantic will do some nice hard plastic Warpath kickstarter funded figures without a plethora of snafus.

 RiTides wrote:
@drag- Actually, what's unfair is for Mantic to continually, arbitrarily use the term "plastic". Call it a unicorn, call it whatever you like. But you need to distinguish between the various materials you sell models in. They use injection molded polystyrene (glueable with plastic cement), hand cast resin, and PVC. Call the three whatever you like, but for goodness sake be consistent. They've done a "bait and switch" with these terms a number of times now, and it has created a distrust with the company's statements.

@squig- It should be obvious by now to them that people vastly prefer quality product slightly late to poor product exactly on-time. If it isn't yet, please pass that along for, you know, all of us

"Plastic" is a catch all it applies to all of them, it existed before mantic and will more than likely be around long after them. The problem is certain people have added a context specific meaning to the word that is both non-universal and technically inaccurate, While is is common practice is just foolish to expect others to use the word the same way especially when they have to communicate with a far wider audience and the term is so ambiguous.


I'd rather have hard polystyrene asterians and FF even if there was a wait, even if that wait wassay 6 months. I can only imagine the gak storm that would commence if mantic announced a delay of that length.

Right, it is about time someone listed the contents of the survey *outside* of the survey, so everyone can plan properly.

I'll edit this post with all things Survey 2, and then copy+paste into the OP and the mantic subforum thread to make it easier for everyone than navigating the form and trying not to accidentally submit it. Feel free to copy + paste to any forum you want.

Deadzone Survey 2 Contents

Note: New stuff is picked out in red.

Page 1

Faction Starters - $35 each or 2 for $50 (Must have pledge of scout and up to qualify for the 2 for $50).
Faction Boosters - $20 each or any 4 for $60
Faction Booster Bundles - $50 each (BUY ONE GET ONE FREE)
Plague Zombies - $15 for 20, or $45 for 80 (stacks with previous survey, if you ordered 1 then, order another 3 to qualify for the deal)
4 Metal Dead Figures (1 Enforcer, 1 Plague, 1 Rebs, and 1 Marauders) - $15

Page 2

Resin Female Enforcer Pathfinder on Infiltrator Bike and on Foot - $20
2 Restic Corporation/Plague/Rebs Striders - $20
Resin Marauder Stuntbot - $20
Hybrid Restic/Resin Forge Father Iron Ancestor (Deadzone Version) - $20

Metal The Helfather - $8
Metal Chovar Psychic - $10
Metal Boomer, Hobgoblin Grenadier - $8
Restic The Survivor (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Metal Alternate Survivor - $8
Doctor Gayle Simmonds - $8
Recon Unit N32-19 - $8
Nastanza, Twilight Huntress - $8
Wrath - $8
Blaine (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Codename: Oberon (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Freya (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8

Metal special character bundle (all 6 minis below) - $45
Enforcer Sergeant Howlett - $8
Kish, 3rd Generation Plague Sphyr - $8
Eddak P'mera, Yndij Hunter - $8
Chief Radgrad - Orc Warlord in Ripper Suit - $12
Nem-Rath, Asterian Shuutavar - $8
Bjarg Starnafall, Forge Father in Orbital Drop Armour - $8

Page 3 (fnarr fnarr)

NEW! Warpath Enforcer with Thermal Rifle/Fusion Gun (1 Metal Figure) - $5
Hard Plastic Enforcers in Peacekeeper Armour x 5 - $10
Warpath Enforcer Captain - $10
NEW! Plague Enforcer with Experimental Weapon - $5
NEW! Rebs Sorak Swordspawn with Combat Knives - $5
Rebs Sorak - $2
NEW! Marauder Upgrade Pack (5 Metal Helmeted Heads + BFGs + Special Weapons) - $5
NEW! Mawbeast - $5
Warpath Marauder Warlord - $10
NEW! Asterian Pulse Bombard Weapon Drone Upgrade - $5
NEW! Forge Father Jotunn Urban Demolisher - $15
Warpath Forge Father Huscarl - $8
Warpath Forge Father Thorgarim Hero - $8

Page 4

Urban Fight - One BattleZone: $25
Urban Skirmish - Two BattleZones: $50 (contains a free accessory sprue)
Urban Battle - Four BattleZones: $95 (contains two free accessory sprues)
Urban War - Eight BattleZones: $185 (contains four free accessory sprues)
Urban Apocalypse - Twelve BattleZones: $280 (contains six free accessory sprues)

NEW! Deadzone Scenery Expansion Sprue - $8
NEW! Deadzone Scenery Expansion Sprue Bundle - $25
Additional Accessory Sprue - $5
Additional Connector Sprue - $3
NEW! Connector Sprue Bundle (5 Sprues) - $10

Urban Detailing Bundle - Military Outpost - $35
Urban Detailing Bundle - Medi-centre - $35
Urban Detailing Bundle - Commercial District - $35
Urban Detailing Bundle - Warehouse District - $35

One Deluxe Mat: $20
Three Deluxe Mats: $55
Four Deluxe Mats: $75
Five Deluxe Mats: $90
Six Deluxe Mats: $110
Paper Gaming Mat - $8

Page 5

Deadzone Collector's Edition (Limited Print-Run Hardback Book) - $40
Deadzone Rulebook - $10
Deadzone Compendium - $10
AI Card Deck - $8
Acrylic Counter Set - $20
Resin Equipment Crates & Counters - $10

I have also curtailed my order of FF and Asterians as a result of the switch back to restic, and have chipped in my two cents on KS as well. Thing is, we all know that they'll do those factions in hard plastic eventually when they launch Warpath, so I'd rather wait for that.

I'm not up in arms about it as I don't need an excuse to spend more money at the moment; I never intended to buy any light vehicles, and the recently confirmed-to-be resin models inflated my budget some. But there isn't any question that Mantic is going to lose sales over this stop-gap measure. I wonder how many people would vote to cast the FF and Asterians in restic to get them sooner?

Two, maybe?

Yep. If I put anymore money into this it will be for terrain. I was going to go heavy on the ff plastics but have no reason not to wait for the warpath ks. Oh well.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Right, it is about time someone listed the contents of the survey *outside* of the survey, so everyone can plan properly.

Spoiler:

I'll edit this post with all things Survey 2, and then copy+paste into the OP and the mantic subforum thread to make it easier for everyone than navigating the form and trying not to accidentally submit it.

Deadzone Survey 2 Contents

Note: New stuff is picked out in red.

Page 1

Faction Starters - $35 each or 2 for $50 (Must have pledge of scout and up to qualify for the 2 for $50).
Faction Boosters - $20 each or any 4 for $60
Faction Booster Bundles - $50 each (BUY ONE GET ONE FREE)
Plague Zombies - $15 for 20, or $45 for 80 (stacks with previous survey, if you ordered 1 then, order another 3 to qualify for the deal)
4 Metal Dead Figures (1 Enforcer, 1 Plague, 1 Rebs, and 1 Marauders) - $15

Page 2

Resin Female Enforcer Pathfinder on Infiltrator Bike and on Foot - $20
2 Restic Corporation/Plague/Rebs Striders - $20
Resin Marauder Stuntbot - $20
Hybrid Restic/Resin Forge Father Iron Ancestor (Deadzone Version) - $20

Metal The Helfather - $8
Metal Chovar Psychic - $10
Metal Boomer, Hobgoblin Grenadier - $8
Restic The Survivor (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Metal Alternate Survivor - $8
Doctor Gayle Simmonds - $8
Recon Unit N32-19 - $8
Nastanza, Twilight Huntress - $8
Wrath - $8
Blaine (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Codename: Oberon (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Freya (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8

Metal special character bundle (all 6 minis below) - $45
Enforcer Sergeant Howlett - $8
Kish, 3rd Generation Plague Sphyr - $8
Eddak P'mera, Yndij Hunter - $8
Chief Radgrad - Orc Warlord in Ripper Suit - $12
Nem-Rath, Asterian Shuutavar - $8
Bjarg Starnafall, Forge Father in Orbital Drop Armour - $8

Page 3
(fnarr fnarr)
NEW! Warpath Enforcer with Thermal Rifle/Fusion Gun (1 Metal Figure) - $5

Thanks. I sure hope we get pictures of all the still unseen stuff before this closes.

As for plastic vice restic elves and dwarves, Mantic are shooting themselves in the foot on this one. They will lose sales of these because of the switch, had they stayed with plastic they would have gained sales. They eventually are going to do these in plastic anyway, so they are in effect wasting resources and losing sales, and yet in their closed and silly minds the decreased orders will justify the use of restic. Again, "almost".

 CptJake wrote:

As for plastic vice restic elves and dwarves, Mantic are shooting themselves in the foot on this one. They will lose sales of these because of the switch, had they stayed with plastic they would have gained sales. They eventually are going to do these in plastic anyway, so they are in effect wasting resources and losing sales, and yet in their closed and silly minds the decreased orders will justify the use of restic. Again, "almost".

I too would rather have plastic cylons and squats (were there also space elves?)
But since you know how their business runs and their financial forecasts, are privy to their business meetings and obviously have pillow talk with Ronnie in the afterglow, and aren't just someone who only posted this just to add another random barb against Mantic on the News thread, please do provide us with more of your hot and juicy insider information

 dragqueeninspace wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
@drag- Actually, what's unfair is for Mantic to continually, arbitrarily use the term "plastic". Call it a unicorn, call it whatever you like. But you need to distinguish between the various materials you sell models in. They use injection molded polystyrene (glueable with plastic cement), hand cast resin, and PVC. Call the three whatever you like, but for goodness sake be consistent. They've done a "bait and switch" with these terms a number of times now, and it has created a distrust with the company's statements.

@squig- It should be obvious by now to them that people vastly prefer quality product slightly late to poor product exactly on-time. If it isn't yet, please pass that along for, you know, all of us

"Plastic" is a catch all it applies to all of them, it existed before mantic and will more than likely be around long after them. The problem is certain people have added a context specific meaning to the word that is both non-universal and technically inaccurate, While is is common practice is just foolish to expect others to use the word the same way especially when they have to communicate with a far wider audience and the term is so ambiguous.


I'd rather have hard polystyrene asterians and FF even if there was a wait, even if that wait wassay 6 months. I can only imagine the gak storm that would commence if mantic announced a delay of that length.

@DQIS: You are technically correct here, but you really are just muddying the waters. "Plastic" in this industry is a term nearly universally applied to Polystyrene alone.

"Restic" is a term that never should have been used in the first place. "Restic" in fact has no resin in it, and is just PVC. I really wish they would have just used "PVC" from the get go.

Also, remember, and argument could be made for calling "Resin" by the name "Plastic" as well...

@Squig: Regarding the clear plastic bases: Yes! A million times YES! Lol. I had actually wanted to ask Ken @ Proxy what it would cost for him to make those, but if this pans out it will save me the time and money.

@Anyone else: Have Mantic ever said anything about making the faction decks available separate from the Starter Packs? If so, that will solve my ForgeFather and Asterian dilemma. If not, oh well.

~Eric

 Taarnak wrote:

 dragqueeninspace wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
@drag- Actually, what's unfair is for Mantic to continually, arbitrarily use the term "plastic". Call it a unicorn, call it whatever you like. But you need to distinguish between the various materials you sell models in. They use injection molded polystyrene (glueable with plastic cement), hand cast resin, and PVC. Call the three whatever you like, but for goodness sake be consistent. They've done a "bait and switch" with these terms a number of times now, and it has created a distrust with the company's statements.

@squig- It should be obvious by now to them that people vastly prefer quality product slightly late to poor product exactly on-time. If it isn't yet, please pass that along for, you know, all of us

"Plastic" is a catch all it applies to all of them, it existed before mantic and will more than likely be around long after them. The problem is certain people have added a context specific meaning to the word that is both non-universal and technically inaccurate, While is is common practice is just foolish to expect others to use the word the same way especially when they have to communicate with a far wider audience and the term is so ambiguous.


I'd rather have hard polystyrene asterians and FF even if there was a wait, even if that wait wassay 6 months. I can only imagine the gak storm that would commence if mantic announced a delay of that length.

@DQIS: You are technically correct here, but you really are just muddying the waters. "Plastic" in this industry is a term nearly universally applied to Polystyrene alone.

"Restic" is a term that never should have been used in the first place. "Restic" in fact has no resin in it, and is just PVC. I really wish they would have just used "PVC" from the get go.

Also, remember, and argument could be made for calling "Resin" by the name "Plastic" as well...

@Squig: Regarding the clear plastic bases: Yes! A million times YES! Lol. I had actually wanted to ask Ken @ Proxy what it would cost for him to make those, but if this pans out it will save me the time and money.

@Anyone else: Have Mantic ever said anything about making the faction decks available separate from the Starter Packs? If so, that will solve my ForgeFather and Asterian dilemma. If not, oh well.

~Eric

PVC is a synthetic resin,

I believe Restic is a trade-name for a particular formulation of PVC. I see no issue with "restic", plastic-resijn however was the really unhelpful term they bandied about at one point..

That hand poured two part resin small run minis are often made from......also a plastic.

I expect the sales advantage of polystyrene FF + asterians would be offset by the sales lost by not having them on the market earlier, not only that but the risk of them coming out crap and late would be one I wouldn't want to take.

 dragqueeninspace wrote:


PVC is a synthetic resin,

I believe Restic is a trade-name for a particular formulation of PVC. I see no issue with "restic", plastic-resijn however was the really unhelpful term they bandied about at one point..

That hand poured two part resin small run minis are often made from......also a plastic.

I expect the sales advantage of polystyrene FF + asterians would be offset by the sales lost by not having them on the market earlier, not only that but the risk of them coming out crap and late would be one I wouldn't want to take.

So, you have absolutely no understanding of the issue that multiple people have pointed out to you, and no interest in anything other than being "right". Gotcha.

Disengaging from this conversation now.

~Eric

 dragqueeninspace wrote:
not only that but the risk of them coming out crap and late would be one I wouldn't want to take.

Which is really the largest risk for Mantic here because of their... *cough* track record. As has been mentioned here and by Kickstarter backers...you know, the people that funded this whole thing since Mantic didn't go through a bank, is that late and awesome is much better than now and sucky.

Your point on the types of plastic and how that affects Mantics decisions to not go "hard plastic" is off-set by the sheer cost of tooling involved between the two material types. This indicates to me that Mantic has no faith in their own product OR that they don't have long-term plans for the models being produced by this KS. If they had long-term plans for the models, they would go ahead and take it to hard plastic as it will save a great deal of money and effort later down the road on a Warpath KS.

That assumes that Ronnie and company have the ability to plan further than the next money-grab, I mean Kickstarter, into the future which they certainly have shown no penchant for thus far. They have shown a disturbing willingness to change material types as it suits them which is fitting considering there is no transparency with Kickstarters to see where the money's gone. If you keep changing things and making confusing declarations about materials and units, it makes it harder for people to pin you down later to anything you've said.

I'm not saying they're criminals but they do play fast and loose with the truth and have a sharply pronounced inability to remain consistent to any degree; this combined with an obvious distaste of communication with people who are paying their bills, does skirt close to that mark. We'll leave out the obvious bait and switch tactics and the fact that they somehow seem incapable actually getting items that people have paid for them out of the equation for the moment; because we all love Mantic and how they bumble about all random-like and haphazard, they're just the lovable buffoons of the tabletop hobby...

Does anyone have any of the Antenociti stuff? I wasn't expecting it to be available second time round, so now I'm tempted. Is it good value for money for skirmish game scatter terrain, or am I better off spending my money on Micro Art stuff or the like?

I'll take one last shot at this- we are all well aware that "plastic" is a generic term. This is exactly why companies need to be more specific if they are using it to apply to multiple different types of plastic, as Mantic is doing... unless they mean the "standard" injection molded polystyrene. They are extremely well aware of the differences, but they choose to be unclear on them until after raising funds

Ah well. I think everyone basically gets this, so I'll stop responding to what is a really obvious point now...

I think someone needs to compile a list of what is in hard plastic, what's in restic and what is resin or metal.

Really a bummer that the Forgefather exo-suits are being backed down to Restic, but I guess I can deal with it. I'm only getting a single set of the starter and the boosters, so a total of 6 restic figures (5 starter, 1 from booster) to make up a complete "unit" is not that big a deal to clean up, as long as they try to keep improving their casting qualities.

The Iron Ancestor is not a bad price, but is pretty much a newly minted rip-off compared to the Strider deals. A single Restic arm and a backpack piece is now deemed to be worth an entire strider model? That sucks. For my personal purposes I want these to be not-Squats for 40K. If I didn't want the Iron Ancestor imagery because it meshes to well with the other Forgefathers, I would definitely just use the strider for their "Dreadnought" because the deal is incredibly better for the same price giving you two figures (and assorted variant pieces!).

I definitely need to see the Jotunn Urban Demolisher before I would think about paying 15 dollars for a single figure, though, when even an Enforcer Captain is only $10.



Because Squats are supposed to use re-purposed mining vehicles, The above strider would be awesome using a Space Marine Dreadnought profile with Plasma Cannon and Close Combat weapon. Not sure I understand the random missiles on the shoulder, though. They wouldn't even be able to fire with the straps holding them down- it looks downright Orky.

I would assume that the Jotunn heavy demolisher is one of the tracked Jotunn cannons. Gonna go with that assumption and cross my fingers.

I still wonder if those missiles aren't akin to extra magazines strapped to his legs. I'm not sure what he has that would fire missiles though. Maybe it's an extra bit? Or the BFG the other variant has includes an underslung missile/rocket/grenade launcher that those would fit?

You've made me remember to go check out the army deals on the mantic site before they die off. Tomorrow I think. If the forge father 1 player battle set comes with a Jotunn and IA.. may consider it... though I have quite a few forge fathers atm as it is...

Another person more than willing to wait for hard plastic over restic here. Dont care if its 6 months later tbh.

Also quite liked this comment on the kickstarter

Do you hear the people sing?
Singing the songs of angry men
It is the music of a people
who will not buy restic again
When the beating of your heart
echoes the beating of the drums
there is a life about to start
when hard plastic comes

I have no interest in the Forgefathers or Astarians but I'd still like them to be done in hard plastic rather than restic, just because restic is a much poorer quality material. I'm selling off most of my restic Deadzone stuff just because I can't be bothered to deal with it (just keeping the rebs). I'd rather wait 6 months and FWIW pay more (hell, I still buy GW) for hard plastic sprues.

 GrimDork wrote:
I would assume that the Jotunn heavy demolisher is one of the tracked Jotunn cannons. Gonna go with that assumption and cross my fingers.

I've been assuming it was one of those kits plus a new metal weapon, probably a large single barrel cannon that goes in instead of the standard quad gun

I'd be happy to wait for hard plastic as well.

Mantic ought to run a vote just to see what everyone thinks.

I'm sure most would be overwhelmingly supportive of getting that stuff on hard sprues.

I've decided to hold back on the forge fathers and astarians due to them being restic, they were to be the start of new armies for Warpath but I'll hold back on them till their hard plastic.

I do think I may have a severe zombie addiction tho, ive slightly mentally pledged for far too many, well over a hundred coming now.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I'd be happy to wait for hard plastic as well.

Mantic ought to run a vote just to see what everyone thinks.

I'm sure most would be overwhelmingly supportive of getting that stuff on hard sprues.

It does bug me that Mantic seems unable to run a poll to save their lives. Something like that would give them a far more accurate view of what people want in terms of type of plastic instead of going off of the loudest voices in the Kickstarter threads

I wouldn't really want to wait 6-9 months for hard plastic. I would love to get my stuff and get running.

Thing is for a poll to work and help create hard plastic it would need a unanimous yes, that is not going to happen and as a result there would be at least a few hundred people left wanting their FF/Asterians. Then, in spite of Mantic's previous stellar KS delivery date record, that would soon be forgotten and they would have more negative publicity to deal with.

I would prefer Hard plastic, but I think Mantic are set on restic for the two races for now. I assume for two reasons. Firstly they are already going down the restic route so that would be a lot of money and time wasted and secondly it would mean income arriving quicker.

That said I have no real issue with restic (@ Pretre my comment on the Mercs was somewhat tongue in cheek) as I have been through the full restic cycle. This saw the original KOW kits in the material (Revenant knights/ Wraiths etc) being great to deal with moved onto the much harder to deal with KOW KS formulation and back to the newer Deadzone formulation which is easier to deal with than the KOW KS era material.

I can see the arguments of both sides, the only way to suceed would be for Mantic to make it in both materials. Simply this is not going to happen as it would be a daft waste of money and resources.

I think they can work towards doing it in the future. The thing that surprises me is that they didn't go for the Plague in hard plastic. Making the main box all in hard plastic seems like a no-brainer.

I thought the Plague Terraton was supposed to be purchasable by itself? I don't see that in the survey option. I mean, I'm buying bundles, for sure: I went in fairly lightly the first time around, so time to splurge now as I'm very impressed with what I've seen, but I'm still curious how it's missing.