Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

faj3r over at Warseer wrote:I heard, from reliable source, that all finecast are going to be mail-order exclusive (my source gave it as a fact)

Comment was that it's possible, that the're going into plastic with characters - instead of finecast and metal - because it's cheaper and technology of plastic miniatures they have great these days (that I think is my source speculation)

IMHO it is possible - because finecast sales is (as I heard) very low, and almost everyone call it crap - and people are looking for the old metals on ebay, quality of plastic miniatures form Island of Blood for example or Vengeance is remarkable, and going back to metal it would be confess that finecast was a big mistake so it wouldn't be politically correct

75hastings69 wrote:I have HEARD via my sources that finecrap has pretty much been recognised as not fit for purpose, and within the timeframe I gave in that thread it is as Starfarer suggests that GW will go pretty much 100% plastic. They are presenting (or getting together the presentation) that FineCAST was only ever a stop gap, and that plastic is the real future.....

Plastic may well be the future, but not if its all angular CAD sculpted soul-less crap, with increasingly less detail..... that's not the future, I can buy that kind of cartoony crap now from PP!

Plastic is my medium of choice, so I applaud a move to all plastic.

This all plastic rumour shouldn't be attributed to me, I'm just passing on what I've heard.

A week ago, on 18th January:

75hastings69 wrote:It depends, when the inferior product (FineCAST) is sooooooo much cheaper to produce than the superior product (metal because of he price of the raw product) then even if everyone returned their models 10 times (which they don't) they'd STILL make more profit than selling 1 perfect metal cast. I'm not making this up its fact! There is however a long term goal, although its a bit shorter now and should be seen in the next 2 - 3 years if my sources are correct FineCAST is not work in progress it's a live product that is on sale to the public, it was work in progress for the minimum 8 months before public launch that they were meant to be testing it!

Try checking a blister/box for casting flaws, if Finecast gets mail order only

I would cheer, cos I like a lot of the plastic characters, but I suspect this will be another reason to... well, you know what.

To me this sounds like a step in the right direction on the road to the rumoured transition to plastic. Now I've never dealt with Finecast, but from what I've heard plastic is preferable, and what people want.

I have no idea why people consider metal superior. I absolutely HATE metal miniatures. I convert so many models and metal is a major pita to model, paint keeps going off, it doesn't look as detailed as Finecast does etc.

Finecast is INCREDIBLY overpriced but seriously, metal sucks.

Plastic > Resin > Metal

Plastic characters are great, but who would trust ordering finecast without seeing it first? I guess GW mailorder probably have a good return policy, but still...

(maybe it's not all that unlike ordering from Forgeworld, but with a subpar material)

 Sigvatr wrote:
I have no idea why people consider metal superior.

Only 50% of this model's blade survive even transport to the shop, would have been no problem with metal:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I have no idea why people consider metal superior. I absolutely HATE metal miniatures. I convert so many models and metal is a major pita to model, paint keeps going off, it doesn't look as detailed as Finecast does etc.

Finecast is INCREDIBLY overpriced but seriously, metal sucks.

Plastic > Resin > Metal

This. Very much this.

I'm even typing this with a sore hand from sawing through the arm of a certain metal warrior priest for a simple conversion... something that would've been far less painful with plastic. Admittedly I've never actually had to deal with FailCast, so my experience is relegated to some old WW2 minis I own.

That being said if the price of the new PLASTIC Chaos Lord is any indication, then there won't be a whole lot of difference in terms of what we're paying for them.

 Flashman wrote:
Well I would cheer, cos I like a lot of the plastic characters, but I suspect this will be another reasons to... well, you know what.

We have had to 'temporarily' increase the price of our metal miniatures due to the 'tin crisis'. - Tom Kirby

Our plastic miniatures now meet the same level of quality as our metal miniatures and we will be bringing their price 'into line' with that range to reflect their status as 'premier kits'. - Tom Kirby

We are pleased to release finecast miniatures, these are of 'superior quality' and protect us from the 'fluctuating cost of tin', unfortunately due to the 'careful mixing process', prices must increase. - Tom Kirby

Our customer base is proven to withstand a great degree of 'price elasticity'. - Tom Kirby


The transfer from the temporary stepping stone of finecast to an entirely plastic range will be very costly to our business but ultimately reduce the tricky business of dealing with resin. However due to the requirements of additional plastic moulding, there will be a price readjustment. - Tom Kirby of the futurrrreeeee....





Automatically Appended Next Post:


You want to take a guess at how many of this new model will be cast correctly, then take a guess at how long this sword will last:
a)packaging
b)transport to retail
c)opening
d)assembly/painting
c)transporting to games
e)tabletop use
f)potential drop

I believe it when I see it.

 Sigvatr wrote:


Plastic > Resin > Metal

Not detailed plastic > GW plastic > plastic in general ?

Am all for 100% plastic if the kits stay compatible.

With how detailed and functional the new plastics are, this would be a great move. However, I don't believe that GW would give up on finecast just yet.

Assuming you got a decent quality model, Finecast was ok for miniatures with thick robust pieces. However, any piece that was thin (swords, staffs etc) was usually beyond saving.

So Finecast Fire Dragons were pretty good, whereas Finecast Howling Banshees were utter

Uh guys, keep in mind transition to plastic means FEWER MODELS.

In the days of metal we had dozens of Chaos champs to choose from, now there is one plastic champ. A rather nice one but we're not exactly spoiled for choice.

And so far all the plastic characters have pretty much been monopose with few or no options. Yeah converting is easy, if you have a deep bitz box.

I can't say I'll miss Finecast since I never once bought a FC model but I will miss having lots of models to choose from.

Thank goodness for the explosion of 3rd party companies.

I am the only one who likes metal minis :( ?

The sooner, the better. There really is no excuse for this half-assed semi-resin they call Finecast when tiny companies liky Wyrd can go all plastic.

So all plastic? Sounds good to me... This was the original plan anyways. Maybe they should have stuck it out with metals until they had gone all plastic.

 devilution wrote:
I am the only one who likes metal minis :( ?

No, any serious collector will prefer metal

Plastic good for converting and multipart armies etc, resin good for nothing and metal the best piece you can have in your collections displays, all undercuts in there, nice textures and details besides metal weight gives soul to your minis.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 devilution wrote:
I am the only one who likes metal minis :( ?

No, any serious collector will prefer metal

Plastic good for converting and multipart armies etc, resin good for nothing and metal the best piece you can have in your collections displays, all undercuts in there, nice textures and details besides metal weight gives soul to your minis.

Resin is good for, you know, actually being able to stick your fething models together...

Metal is fine for single piece models. It's not so good for multi-part characters, and is absolutely terrible for big, multi-part, heavy monsters.

Take a look at the Mangler Squigs. You complain because they are Finecast, and so can sag if you aren't careful with them and are leaving them next to a radiator.

Now imagine keeping the fething thing in one piece if it was made of metal.

ARGH.

Also, resin allows for finer detail than metal, as there is less shrinkage from cooling and setting.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Plastic > Resin/Metal > Wood > Papier mache > Clay > Frozen mist > Unicorn horn > ... > ... > Finecast

Fixed that for you...

I tend to think resin as being better for garage kits, small runs and display pieces. Metal has the advantage, generally, of structural strength and being able to handle undercuts better than plastic. Your average resin or metal model is going to be a better cast than a Finecast figure.

Also, if your paint is chipping off your metal models, there may be a problem with either your painting method or your approach to handling your models. If you're washing, undercoating and varnishing your metal models, and not bouncing them off the walls, you shouldn't get chips in your paintwork...

 devilution wrote:
I am the only one who likes metal minis :( ?

No, you're not. I can clearly see a day when multi-part plastics become the premium product and the single sprue, mono-pose plastics become the norm. Want 10 tactical marines? $50 will buy you a box with one sprue and all the details molded on for you convenience. The future is coming. Be careful what you wish for, people...

 Squigsquasher wrote:


Resin is good for, you know, actually being able to stick your fething models together...

.

I own thousands of minis in all kinds of materials, even plasresins from obscure french companies... if you cant stick metal minis well... its not a material issue and rather just your lack of expertise

BTW manglers are bad in all materials because the miniature designer forgot to introduce the design part on the model and created something totally unfriendly for wargaming! Hummm thinking on all materials I think the metal would get away better with those joints if you hollow the bodies to a maximum. But still in all material you will have to heavy pin. Horrible design choices there.

 NAVARRO wrote:
if you cant stick metal minis well... its not a material issue and rather just your lack of expertise

Sweeping statements ahoy!

3 words: Metal Hive Tyrant.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Plastic > Resin/Metal > Wood > Papier mache > Clay > Frozen mist > Unicorn horn > ... > ... > Finecast

Fixed that for you...

I tend to think resin as being better for garage kits, small runs and display pieces. Metal has the advantage, generally, of structural strength and being able to handle undercuts better than plastic. Your average resin or metal model is going to be a better cast than a Finecast figure.

Also, if your paint is chipping off your metal models, there may be a problem with either your painting method or your approach to handling your models. If you're washing, undercoating and varnishing your metal models, and not bouncing them off the walls, you shouldn't get chips in your paintwork...

I started gaming almost 20 years ago, when metal was the rule. I built hundreds of Battletech mechs and other metal minis. I never washed any of them, simply primed then painted. I never had a problem with paint flaking off.

 Squigsquasher wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
if you cant stick metal minis well... its not a material issue and rather just your lack of expertise

Sweeping statements ahoy!

3 words: Metal Hive Tyrant.

Hint: plastic glue does not work there

Seriously though I have 2 decade metals still glued and they survived all kinds of abuse, even moving from one country to another with no foams or protective stuff... so yes try to find out a good way to assemble metal minis ( theres probably plenty online).

@devilution - absolutely not!

But Kid_Kyoto is also correct - which is why I miss the real metals....back when their were lots of different models for each type. That was why you needed such a big catalog just to show stuff. 30 different models for a type was not unusual (head swaps, items swaps and real different poses).

 Sigvatr wrote:
I have no idea why people consider metal superior. I absolutely HATE metal miniatures. I convert so many models and metal is a major pita to model, paint keeps going off, it doesn't look as detailed as Finecast does etc.

Finecast is INCREDIBLY overpriced but seriously, metal sucks.

Plastic > Resin > Metal

Many consider metal superior because it doesn't come full of holes, miscasts, and brittle bits.

 helium42 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I have no idea why people consider metal superior. I absolutely HATE metal miniatures. I convert so many models and metal is a major pita to model, paint keeps going off, it doesn't look as detailed as Finecast does etc.

Finecast is INCREDIBLY overpriced but seriously, metal sucks.

Plastic > Resin > Metal

Many consider metal superior because it doesn't come full of holes, miscasts, and brittle bits.

Speaking in absolutes is detrimental to having a lively conversation. Trust me on this.

Pewter did still have issues, the issues were just fewer and less common. You still had mould slips, broken bits, shrinkage, and other issues. You just did not see them as often, and to a lesser extent you did not have people actively looking for the faults.
If you had a bad metal model you didn't go post about it on Dakka, you called up GW or went to your LGS and had them replace it for you.

If crapcast is indeed on the way out ( one can only hope) and GW wants to limit the cost of new toolings for plastic characters, I hope they will go for multipart models that allow for building / posing multiple specifis special characters, as well as the unnamed squad leaders heroes priests and wat not...

Well, I can dream , can't I.....

PS, A certain moder Producer did not claim to have the most superior and flawless models with pewter... they did with a (IMHO) inferior plastic/resin mix... when you create high expectations and fail to deliver... you do the math

I am amazed, and to be honest a little bit surprised, by the number of uninformed comments here regarding the advantages of metal, resin and plastic over each other.

Kid Kyoto already mentioned numbers of sculpts, and of course that is a big issue, but put simply despite the advances in plastic sculpting method (of which there have been many) plastic can simply not contain the detail that resin or metal potentially offer to the sculptor. Ease of construction yes, ease of conversion yes, but your character models are going to be looking more than a little 'plain jane' in the future if this turns out to be true. And this is before we start talking about undercuts, and the other limits placed on the sculptor when using plastic. Each medium offers something, and they complement each other.

So that's the big issue for me - GW have already fallen behind the likes of Corvus Belli, Studio McVey and some of the other stuff hitting the market right now, in terms of complex designs and sculpting. If this change is taking place then it's like they are not even trying to run at the same pace and you have to think that it is being done entirely for financial reasons - and once again there is absolutely no regard for the collector, especially the miniature enthusiast who wants something of a higher quality.

Hastings described the current bunch of giant Tomix toys, labelled as wargaming miniatures, as 'CAD-sculpted soulless crap'. Yes having a strong range of plastics is really important, and will no doubt make some people happy. But, for the true painting enthusiasts and those who want highly detailed miniatures on occasion, this will surely be the straw that breaks the camels back and the company's reputation will have been done for by proving that they have been unable to produce a better quality resin that is up to the task.

Who would have thought, all those years ago, that it would come to this. If it's true, I'm flabbergasted. Really.

They'd have been better off with a 50% price rise on metals to cover the material costs... that's pretty much what we've ended up with with finecast anyway, only the product is far worse.