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I've just shot my extra Vulcan's armour with Dark Yellow, will see how good it looks once it's been weathered enough.

The problem with dazzle camo, as attractive as it is, is that it’s not really camouflage in the sense that is meant to obscure the target, rather it is used to produce optical distortion to prevent optical targeting using rangefinders. The camo scheme was largely obsolete even by the time it was developed (optical rangefinding techniques advanced to the point that dazzle camo proved only a minor nuisance rather than any real hindrance), and in a ground combat setting wouldn’t serve any real purpose (it would actually make you an easier target to spot, though it might make you harder to identify).

Oh I agree it's no good as cammo,

but it looks cool and tha't the main point

Camo on a giant walking robot is probably superfluous anyway, so why not make it dazzle?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Moar pictures. I took the Rifleman and gave him washes in the deeper recesses with Agrax Earthshade.

ONe picture is with Incandescent + Fluocompact bulb, the other two are only with the latter.

CC welcome. I've mellowed out a bit under the paintbrush's ministrations. Very zen.

Wow, I love your scheme Mathieu! Well done... time for a P&M blog walkthrough on exactly the steps you're using

I should, eh?

I got to assemble two guys this week. Super productive, I know. As soon as I have three of them done (probably tomorrow morning) I'll start doing a step by messy step.

I decided to change the Yellow to red on the test model. I think it pops better, especially at the small scale. I have 5 regular Stormtroopers assembled and ready to prime. I am going to try some different greys and black areas on these guys with the white, then the red accents.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

skarsol wrote:
Camo on a giant walking robot is probably superfluous anyway, so why not make it dazzle?

Fair enough lol.

I was at my FLGS today while they were unboxing there first shipment of dreamforge stuff. Did my best to talk up how awesome and sexy everything is...they got 1 crusader in and when I saw it I tried to tell myself I didnt need another one and I should try to let someone else enjoy its sexiness, seconds later the box was in my hands and I was paying for it without a single ounce of guilt.

Are you going to turn into a hoarder?

 ironicsilence wrote:
I was at my FLGS today while they were unboxing there first shipment of dreamforge stuff. Did my best to talk up how awesome and sexy everything is...they got 1 crusader in and when I saw it I tried to tell myself I didnt need another one and I should try to let someone else enjoy its sexiness, seconds later the box was in my hands and I was paying for it without a single ounce of guilt.

That is fantastic

Although I think I do detect an ounce or two of guilt in this post.

 RiTides wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
I was at my FLGS today while they were unboxing there first shipment of dreamforge stuff. Did my best to talk up how awesome and sexy everything is...they got 1 crusader in and when I saw it I tried to tell myself I didnt need another one and I should try to let someone else enjoy its sexiness, seconds later the box was in my hands and I was paying for it without a single ounce of guilt.

That is fantastic

Although I think I do detect an ounce or two of guilt in this post.

the ounce or two of guilt is likely more to do with the fact that im pretty sure my FLGS had the model priced incorrectly as it was well below even the online discount sites...but then again I've always bought gw at full retail from them so maybe it was there way of saying thank you


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 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Are you going to turn into a hoarder?

pretty sure im already there...I was actually having a conversation over the weekend on whether or not I can field an army by just cutting out the box art instead of putting the model together, seems the only way I'll ever get to play with half the stuff I have. The crusader is just to sexy to pass up

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
It doesn't quite show, but I did a thin line of wash on the lower rim of the helmet, I'll have to give it another coat (I'd rather do less than more at first.

And for the record, no metallics were used. I don't have a pot of Dark Yellow at home (I know, I only bought the spray and realized it at home. I can only get Tamiya far, far away so it'll have to wait) But I mixed Averland Sunset with English Uniform, it is slightly like the darker gun in your second picture.

The sole... man I should have caught that. It's been a rough week. Fixed this morning.

And yes, I could have cropped the picture but like I said, I was only going to do it on saturday, but I didn't want to be a tease, and it was late... throw the man a bone! On a serious note, I've been having problems taking close-ups with my camera lately. I think it has to do with age... I'm not as stable as I used to be. Do those little gorilla tripods still exist?

Relax! You asked for comments and criticism - otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it. They do still make gorilla tripods. I've got a couple, though I haven't seen them since before I moved the last time - they should be on eBay though. It sounds like you need to make a paint order, my friend. Get thyself some Vallejo Model Air. You'll be glad that you did.

Item Number Origin Destination Delivery Status Event Date
XXX Hong Kong Australia The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 1-Mar-2013 18-Feb-2013

The Aussie stuff has left HK yay. Here's hoping it's not 6 week delivery surface/sea mail ; p

 Azazelx wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
It doesn't quite show, but I did a thin line of wash on the lower rim of the helmet, I'll have to give it another coat (I'd rather do less than more at first.

And for the record, no metallics were used. I don't have a pot of Dark Yellow at home (I know, I only bought the spray and realized it at home. I can only get Tamiya far, far away so it'll have to wait) But I mixed Averland Sunset with English Uniform, it is slightly like the darker gun in your second picture.

The sole... man I should have caught that. It's been a rough week. Fixed this morning.

And yes, I could have cropped the picture but like I said, I was only going to do it on saturday, but I didn't want to be a tease, and it was late... throw the man a bone! On a serious note, I've been having problems taking close-ups with my camera lately. I think it has to do with age... I'm not as stable as I used to be. Do those little gorilla tripods still exist?

Relax! You asked for comments and criticism - otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it. They do still make gorilla tripods. I've got a couple, though I haven't seen them since before I moved the last time - they should be on eBay though. It sounds like you need to make a paint order, my friend. Get thyself some Vallejo Model Air. You'll be glad that you did.

I should have added a smiley, my comments were "relaxed." I'd had sleep. I need to find much more precise heads for my airbrush before I spend any money on airbrush paint. The three I have go from "good for a base coat" to "broad side of a barn" in spray area. I very much benefited from your C&C, everything has basically been done. They look a lot tighter, and have a lot more detail now.

I've also been painting test armour for the leviathan. Dark Yellow, as suggested, and then chipping it, adding oil leaks, darkening the metal, but the dusting hasn't been very succesful. I think the Tamiya spray is too glossy. I need to go out today and buy a little tub of pigments and a fixer for it. It is coming along nicely, though. Once the legs are done, I'll be mounting it on its base.

I've found that model Air is brilliant for brush work in general, and since it follows a very similar palette to Model Colour (rather than game colour), which is why I suggested it. I use more Model Air via brush than by airbrush, by miles.

The German Desert Yellow of that range would be much nicer to work with than anything from Tamiya, etc. Same deal with the browns that follow your Einenkarn camo palette.

I was meaning just mail order a half-dozen of these from wherever and they'll be in hand in a fortnight. There's some places in the UK with free post that I use that work out cheaper than buying them locally, but YMMV being in Canada.

I was a little bit skeptical when I first saw renders of these models, since nice renders don't always mean nice plastic models. After seeing pages and pages of testimonials and models in-hand though, I've got to say I'm impressed. Will definitely be picking up some of these boys in the future.

Mathieu- Post the link to the P&M blog tracking all this when you decide to put it up

Azazel- Interesting about Vallejo Air! I am currently holding out for the Minitaire line, but I may give up and go with Vallejo... but the savings on the Minitaire is what is keeping me from doing so. I am DEFINITELY going to be hitting my Dreamforge stuff with the airbrush for the majority of the work, then painting details.

Brother SRM- I agree, the models came out much closer to the renders than I had dared to hope!

I'd never heard of the line until the name came up in this thread. I'll have to check it out. I do like to buy paints locally. But if they are that good... I might have to make an exception.

Although I just had to pay my next round of classes (in the hopes of being one day fully employable) and that 1200$ payment has just made a big hole in gaming endeavours... damn.

I will throw my hat in the ring for Vallejo Model Air also. I'm using it as the main base coat for my Drop troopers and Leviathan.
I also use the Model Air with brush, and it's a bit easier as you don't have to thin so much to get a good result.

You can mix with Model Color quite well, and they really complement each other.

I've been seeing the Minitaire paints a lot recently, and may pick up some of those, especially the Ghost Tints.

I'll see about making some vids for Youtube when I get to my troops and Crusader. Not that my techniques are awesome, I'm a relative noob when it comes to airbrushing.

skarsol wrote:
Camo on a giant walking robot is probably superfluous anyway, so why not make it dazzle?

Given what the fluff that's on the DFG website has to say about the weather conditions that battles are usually fought in (due to gate travel), I would NOT consider camouflage on a Leviathan to be superfluous at all.

Edited to add:

Put some more thought to it, and still see camo as being something I'd want on a Levi in that universe, under that type of weather. Based on my own 20 years of observing fighter jets in all kinds of weather, and how various conditions make it easier or harder to see them, I'd go with one or two shades of the same base color, in large swathes. Colors would be based on the expected severe weather of the site you are attacking, or defending. If hurricanes/fog/heavy rain are the likely effects, then grays or dull silvers. If the terrain is likely to be arid, with dust/sandstorms, then browns. Arctic conditions would get light grays/whites, and so forth.

I agree camo would be a plus, but im having trouble determining what kind of camo... WW1 camo schemes are kinda meh, and WW2 camo is overdone imo :/

Aircraft camo is best suited for the nuances of air to air combat IMO and wouldnt be well suited to a leviathan (countershading for example would be useless unless leviathans typically engage at a range that would place them against the horizon, and the two-tone grey compass ghost scheme used by the USAF is used to make long range visual recognition difficult against a variety of backgrounds rather than to obscure them (which is the point of camoin ground combat)).


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Also, come to think of it, dont Leviathans generate massive amounts of heat? Camo would be of limited use, if not useless, if thermooptics exist (and visual detectionwith the naked eye would be possible via heat haze unless the environment makes such visual phenomena common).

 RiTides wrote:
Azazel- Interesting about Vallejo Air! I am currently holding out for the Minitaire line, but I may give up and go with Vallejo... but the savings on the Minitaire is what is keeping me from doing so. I am DEFINITELY going to be hitting my Dreamforge stuff with the airbrush for the majority of the work, then painting details.

My Minitaire set arrived a few weeks ago and they're really good. Can't go wrong with either Minitaire or VMA for airbrush work. Minitaire is more like game colour in the types of colours in the range so you might not get the camo colours you want in it. I prefer it overall to VMA now, though I still use some VMA colours that aren't represented in the Minitaire set. If you can still get the Minitaire set cheap (I paid $135-$140 for the set of 80 iirc) definitely pick it up.

Meh, assume there are going to be thermo-optic disruptors or something along those lines.

Maybe a digital camo scheme? Look at Some of the MARPAT, CADPAT, etc camo in use in today's armies.
http://www.a-tacs.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/how-atacs-works.jpg

Yeah, I prefer Hyde Definitions Pencott pattern, probably the most effective i'vebever seen.

The problem i have with modern camo patterns is that they are super-effective as a result of the scientific theory and engineering that goes into them. As a result, minis painted in these schemes (when done right) become these multicolored blobs without real definition because their lines are broken up so effectively. In some case it looks cool and in others it doesn't. A friend once painted up his Leman Russ in such a manner and while it looked cool, I really couldnt tell what it was i was looking at... i actually felt nauseous as a result lol. Also, I dont trust my skills to paint something that complex haha.

For whatever reason though, militaries seem to prefer larger block patterns on vehicles (afvs, trucks, etc.). Those might look cool but I dont really understand their utility.

chaos0xomega wrote:
. A friend once painted up his Leman Russ in such a manner and while it looked cool, I really couldnt tell what it was i was looking at... i actually felt nauseous as a result lol.

You realize of course, that this paint job requires that you post photos...

Tim

 RiTides wrote:
Mathieu- Post the link to the P&M blog tracking all this when you decide to put it up

Azazel- Interesting about Vallejo Air! I am currently holding out for the Minitaire line, but I may give up and go with Vallejo... but the savings on the Minitaire is what is keeping me from doing so. I am DEFINITELY going to be hitting my Dreamforge stuff with the airbrush for the majority of the work, then painting details.

Brother SRM- I agree, the models came out much closer to the renders than I had dared to hope!

From what I've seen, Minitaire is slightly better airbrush paint than Model Air.
Having said that, Model Air is very good in an airbrush and also excellent with a brush. It's now my primary brush paint for most things, when the colours are appropriate - pushing Model Colour, Game Colour, GW, P3, CDA etc back.


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 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I'd never heard of the line until the name came up in this thread. I'll have to check it out. I do like to buy paints locally. But if they are that good... I might have to make an exception.

Although I just had to pay my next round of classes (in the hopes of being one day fully employable) and that 1200$ payment has just made a big hole in gaming endeavours... damn.

30 quid gets you worldwide free postage from Firestorm Games. Model Air are £1.89 each. 16 paints will get you a very nice palette to work from for something like a Leviathan and troops in WW2-inspired schemes, not to mention some nice spot colours for brighter parts.


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 Yonan wrote:
If you can still get the Minitaire set cheap (I paid $135-$140 for the set of 80 iirc) definitely pick it up.

Where was this from? I saw some place that had a deal, but it had already expired by the time I saw it. If I can grab them for that price, I'll order them right now.


As far as camo goes, I'm going to go with "rule of cool" over realism since we're talking about giant walking mechs and troops wearing armour inspired by Medieval plate combined with 1940's styling.

There are some very nice multi-layer masks for digital camo out there as well. People seem to paint their Tau vehicles with it a fair bit. I can't find a link to any of them, though hopefully someone else here can do so. (I'd like to get some myself, by the by).

http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/where-buy-minitaire-paints-

Site has a 40% off coupon for Minitaire paints. I think I might pick up the Ghost tints from them, it's a good deal.

http://www.criticalmassgames.com/default.asp?category=maskfx#MaskFXdeals Great Mask kits for 15mm and 28mm painting.

^^ Yeah I got in on the 50% off coupon, but the 40% that's going is still great.

 Azazelx wrote:
Having said that, Model Air is very good in an airbrush and also excellent with a brush.

Minitaire is as good or better than VMA for brush on from what I've found, so long as it's on a suitable basecoat. Except the metallics, I only tried them twice but they did not brush on well at all.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I agree camo would be a plus, but im having trouble determining what kind of camo... WW1 camo schemes are kinda meh, and WW2 camo is overdone imo :/

Aircraft camo is best suited for the nuances of air to air combat IMO and wouldnt be well suited to a leviathan (countershading for example would be useless unless leviathans typically engage at a range that would place them against the horizon, and the two-tone grey compass ghost scheme used by the USAF is used to make long range visual recognition difficult against a variety of backgrounds rather than to obscure them (which is the point of camoin ground combat)).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, come to think of it, dont Leviathans generate massive amounts of heat? Camo would be of limited use, if not useless, if thermooptics exist (and visual detectionwith the naked eye would be possible via heat haze unless the environment makes such visual phenomena common).

See, that's just the thing, though. What fluff we do have available about the Iron Core universe tells us that attacks are nearly always meant to proceed very quickly, specifically because ripping open a gate causes massive weather phenomena in the target planet's atmosphere. Storms of all kind are the expected conditions in which the fighting is going to take place, if it hasn't been concluded with extreme speed. And I can tell you, from years of experience looking at the things sitting on the ground in all kinds of weather, that USAF two tone gray is pretty good camouflage in strong inclement weather. Something slightly lighter than surrounding terrain and vegetation would work good as a compromise that would better blend to the landscape than straight up gray, but would fade into the weather better than if it were painted dark woodland or the like. Thinking grayed up versions of the normal kind of camo colors we're used to on present day earth.