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I still support mark and WGF, just some photos and eye candy would help alleviate any anxiety

Sining wrote:
So in the 1.5 years since this ks launched or the 10 months since wave 3 was supposed to be shipped, no one has been able to sit down and complete the mold or etc yet. Yay

Items that have made it all the way through tooling:

All the 15mm kits have been completed, these were not simple scale downs, every component needed to be handled and changed in CAD.

15mm Mortis complete
15mm Nova Cannon complete
15mm Mauler claw right arm complete
15mm Mauler claw left arm complete
15mm HEL cannon complete
15mm Left Vulkan Complete

APC complete (a kit as technically challenging as the Leviathans)

Mold splits for the vast majority of the infantry complete.

What you say as yay... I say as YAY! Stage 2 went out in October, since stage 2 all the above has been completed.... Show me another company with that release schedule.

Sining wrote:
So in the 1.5 years since this ks launched or the 10 months since wave 3 was supposed to be shipped, no one has been able to sit down and complete the mold or etc yet. Yay

I haven't counted, but I'm guessing they've cut at least thirty molds. That's insane.

Have you ever looked at, let alone created, a virtual model inside a 3D program? Then, tried to figure out how to manufacture it according to the specific constraints required by injection molding? I don't think the great majority of people have an even basic inkling of the amount of work in an injection plastic kit.

If Dreamforge and WGF did anything wrong, it was offering too many options. It was an overly ambitious project to do at once IMO.

Great products though!

I've never cut molds before. But I'm just looking at the ks page and my wave 3 stuff was supposed to go out may 2013. I would assume the actual factory would know what they're doing when scheduling things which would mean that normally yes, they should be able to finish tooling everything before may 2013 and the fact it's still tooling now is disheartening.

Basically I'm just upset that one of the very first ks I backed in 2012 and which I have NOTHING to show for since I only backed assault troopers, will suddenly possibly be pushed back to q3 2014. So really when you say YAY, I say yay....

Sining wrote:
I've never cut molds before. But I'm just looking at the ks page and my wave 3 stuff was supposed to go out may 2013. I would assume the actual factory would know what they're doing when scheduling things which would mean that normally yes, they should be able to finish tooling everything before may 2013 and the fact it's still tooling now is disheartening.

Basically I'm just upset that one of the very first ks I backed in 2012 and which I have NOTHING to show for since I only backed assault troopers, will suddenly possibly be pushed back to q3 2014. So really when you say YAY, I say yay....

Fair enough... I can understand that.

 NoseGoblin wrote:
Items that have made it all the way through tooling:

All the 15mm kits have been completed, these were not simple scale downs, every component needed to be handled and changed in CAD.

15mm Mortis complete
15mm Nova Cannon complete
15mm Mauler claw right arm complete
15mm Mauler claw left arm complete
15mm HEL cannon complete
15mm Left Vulkan Complete

APC complete (a kit as technically challenging as the Leviathans)

Mold splits for the vast majority of the infantry complete.

Oh man, all those 15mm arms and Mortis done! Just waiting on the infantry... grrr (I'm just getting the 15mm kits). Not that I begrudge you guys, I know you've been waiting just as long... but the stuff I want is ready

Sining wrote:

Basically I'm just upset that one of the very first ks I backed in 2012 and which I have NOTHING to show for since I only backed assault troopers, will suddenly possibly be pushed back to q3 2014. So really when you say YAY, I say yay....

That would be frustrating, thanks for clarifying.

So.. 100% of the kits are 80% complete? (I forget the exact Raging Heroes quote).

Keep pluggin' away Mark, looking forward to all those heavy and female troops so much!

Your kits came up in the Mantic thread, specifically regarding compatibility. Thought you might like seeing this as an example. Eisenkern bits might fix a few of Mantics problems we've had hehe.

Sining, you also have to take into account that Mark has been allowed to produce those excellent kits for a pitance being raised during the campaign.

Who said you can get stuff either cheap, fast or good, but you can only pick two? If cheap allows Mark to bring good product to market, then most of us are agreed that fast had to go.

I've looked at Mantic's final products (in review) and I am soooooooooooooooo glad I am not getting stuff like cathorses or models with arms and hands not connecting (see Deadzone Orx reviews)

It is frustrating, no one is denying that, and no one is trying to silence you. We feel, just like you. I want my Valkir and Black Widows. But then I think of tannhauser42 who pledged for, what, 12, 15 APCs?

Yeah I fully understand Sinings complaint, but I still have to call DFG my best kickstarter due to the sheer quality of the models. Mark being a top bloke helps too. The delay is pretty ridiculous but I can guess at the business reasons for it, knowing somehting about the whole WGF situation.

Knowing that without our funding, these plastics wouldn't be on the market... that's pretty important to me. Very glad Mark could get away from resin and metal. I've been hoping Vic would do the same.

Mark...

If mould split is done for most of the infantry... can you share a bit of the Black Widows with us?

Please? Pretty please?

Sining wrote:
I've never cut molds before. But I'm just looking at the ks page and my wave 3 stuff was supposed to go out may 2013. I would assume the actual factory would know what they're doing when scheduling things which would mean that normally yes, they should be able to finish tooling everything before may 2013 and the fact it's still tooling now is disheartening.

Basically I'm just upset that one of the very first ks I backed in 2012 and which I have NOTHING to show for since I only backed assault troopers, will suddenly possibly be pushed back to q3 2014. So really when you say YAY, I say yay....

Just to be clear, I am not soft peddling a possible delay, If I knew that we were looking at one, I would and I will tell you.

The reason for my post was simply to inform on the process, that it is far more fluid than most realize and because I have read a few threads where people were concerned about the number of projects that WGF is currently handling. I want to be clear on this point; if left unfettered by my change requests, I am quite confident that we would clear the decks before the end of Q2. If this goes over, it is because I was not happy with some aspect and asked for revisions. I know that is small comfort for any customers that have been waiting on stage three items, but just know I am looking after your investment and making sure that I meet or exceed your expectations for the final kits, waiting this long and then receiving a sub par product is not an option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Mark...

If mould split is done for most of the infantry... can you share a bit of the Black Widows with us?

Please? Pretty please?

Forgive me... not quite yet. It will likely be the last one I preview.

 Yonan wrote:
Yeah I fully understand Sinings complaint, but I still have to call DFG my best kickstarter due to the sheer quality of the models. Mark being a top bloke helps too. The delay is pretty ridiculous but I can guess at the business reasons for it, knowing somehting about the whole WGF situation.

Knowing that without our funding, these plastics wouldn't be on the market... that's pretty important to me. Very glad Mark could get away from resin and metal. I've been hoping Vic would do the same.

Yep, I've backed a number of kickstarters, and the DFG stuff is among the top of the list...slow to arrive, but with the kind of quality and price that gets me to be more than satisfied. Could have been sent really substandard minis faster, I'm sure, but that would suck far more than the excellent product we've gotten, shipped late.

Let's just look at all of the KS projects I've backed.

DFG: Late, but stellar quality, very happy with it.
Tablescapes by Secret Weapon: Running late, but getting nearer. So far, quality looks good, but time will tell.
Dwarven Forge Game Tiles: Shipped either on time, or darn near. Great stuff, they somehow bucked the general trend towards delays in KS projects.
Artisan Dice: Running way late, waiting to see what the product quality will be when it gets in hand.
Robotech RPG tactics: Late, we're nearly all familiar with what's going on there.
Chapterhouse alternative ADLs: Late. Haven't received yet. Pics look good, but that's pics.
Wargods of Olympus: This one I only ordered one mini from, to paint up for my wife. Got it, it's a good piece.
Cthulhu Wars: Late, who knows when it'll release?
Monster Hunters International challenge coins: There were small delays, but only about a month. Got my stuff, it's great quality.

Currently backing the caverns Game Tiles from Dwarven Forge, I have reason to expect that to go well.


So, on balance, nearly everything I've backed is late. I haven't gotten the vast majority of stuff I've backed for, at all, yet, and DFG at least went in waves so that I do have quite a bit of what they did. I've got plenty of reason, between the quality and the fact that I've received 2 of 3 shipments, to be satisfied with DFG as one of the top things I've backed.

Mark,

Since your waiting on stuff from WGF to approve and alter, how's progress on the opposing faction going? Have you been able to get work on them done, or is the work on that going to take longer as well? I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but I'd like to hear that at least renders and ideas for the shadowkesh are progressing to so we're not looking two more years until we see them arrive.

 Theophony wrote:
Mark,

Since your waiting on stuff from WGF to approve and alter, how's progress on the opposing faction going? Have you been able to get work on them done, or is the work on that going to take longer as well? I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but I'd like to hear that at least renders and ideas for the shadowkesh are progressing to so we're not looking two more years until we see them arrive.

So far no substantial progress on the Shadokesh. I have been working on Terrain (buildings) a tank and a light walker as time allows.

I have a very talented Zbrush artist I am very keen to work with on the Shadokesh (started negotiations) to deal with the infantry figures while I work on the Shadokesh vehicles. By sharing the load and having two designers playing to their strengths I hope to get the design process clipping along once we have completed the current KS. Modeling for an alien race is something I need my head in 100%, I need to eat breath and sleep the Shadokesh without interference from other designs, it is just how I work best and what I have found works for me.

The KS mini was a pain to put together, but that aspect is easily resolved, I am OK but not blown away by the design. I want to be blown away.... I want these things to scream grace and violence at the same time, they need to be looked at again with fresh eyes and a fresh perspective. I do not imagine sweeping changes as much as 'turning up the volume' on the current design. These are not humans, they do not move like humans we can go far more dynamic without looking out of place.

For the Organics we will have the Shadokesh armored soldiers, the Feral unarmored and the Sokesh, a genetic throwback to their origins (large flying predators). the two latter will not be posable, they will be very dynamic sculptures I would imagine the Ferals will have quite a few as they are more a mob component and the Sokesh will have 3 variant poses. The main Shadokesh will be multipart posable like the Stormtroopers with options for standard and heavy weapon arms. I need someone who can nail fabric modeling as the Shadokesh wear the dress, this is where we have an opportunity to convey grace, through the fluid moment and draping.

Thanks mark

Will the buildings and tank b available before the next kickstarter, or will they basically be wave 1 of the next grouping?

 Theophony wrote:
Thanks mark

Will the buildings and tank b available before the next kickstarter, or will they basically be wave 1 of the next grouping?

As we work through the Shadokesh I need releases in between... so at least two of the kits perhaps many more will see straight to retail.

 NoseGoblin wrote:
So far no substantial progress on the Shadokesh. I have been working on Terrain (buildings) a tank and a light walker as time allows.

I have a very talented Zbrush artist I am very keen to work with on the Shadokesh (started negotiations) to deal with the infantry figures while I work on the Shadokesh vehicles. By sharing the load and having two designers playing to their strengths I hope to get the design process clipping along once we have completed the current KS. Modeling for an alien race is something I need my head in 100%, I need to eat breath and sleep the Shadokesh without interference from other designs, it is just how I work best and what I have found works for me.

The KS mini was a pain to put together, but that aspect is easily resolved, I am OK but not blown away by the design. I want to be blown away.... I want these things to scream grace and violence at the same time, they need to be looked at again with fresh eyes and a fresh perspective. I do not imagine sweeping changes as much as 'turning up the volume' on the current design. These are not humans, they do not move like humans we can go far more dynamic without looking out of place.

For the Organics we will have the Shadokesh armored soldiers, the Feral unarmored and the Sokesh, a genetic throwback to their origins (large flying predators). the two latter will not be posable, they will be very dynamic sculptures I would imagine the Ferals will have quite a few as they are more a mob component and the Sokesh will have 3 variant poses. The main Shadokesh will be multipart posable like the Stormtroopers with options for standard and heavy weapon arms. I need someone who can nail fabric modeling as the Shadokesh wear the dress, this is where we have an opportunity to convey grace, through the fluid moment and draping.

This all sounds fantastic to me, Mark! I agree that vehicles play to your modelling strengths, and that I was impressed but not blown away by the Shadokesh model in this campaign.

Bringing on another designer to help with the infantry of that, and having you focus on making out-of-this-world vehicles for them, sounds like a win all around!

After stage 3 is done here, of course

Thanks for the update Mark - much appreciated. Of course, with you even mentioning Q3, I'm revising my personal estimate to Q4 or even Q1 2015 (after CNY).

yay?

I think we'll hit Q3 personally, Azazel. Gentleman's wager?

im with tides.....q1 2015 would be emotionally crushing

Azazel. If you are right, I am personally sending you a fireteam of Black Widows.

 Azazelx wrote:
Thanks for the update Mark - much appreciated. Of course, with you even mentioning Q3, I'm revising my personal estimate to Q4 or even Q1 2015 (after CNY).

yay?

Lol I cant say I blame you, but I know how far along we are right now and this was a unvarnished truth " I want to be clear on this point; if left unfettered by my change requests, I am quite confident that we would clear the decks before the end of Q2".

 NoseGoblin wrote:
For the Organics we will have the Shadokesh armored soldiers, the Feral unarmored and the Sokesh, a genetic throwback to their origins (large flying predators). the two latter will not be posable, they will be very dynamic sculptures I would imagine the Ferals will have quite a few as they are more a mob component and the Sokesh will have 3 variant poses.

Thanks for all the info Mark! The lack of posability doesn't seem ideal if feedback is being solicited. Part of the awesomeness of your kits so far has been how posable and versatile they are.

 Yonan wrote:

 NoseGoblin wrote:
For the Organics we will have the Shadokesh armored soldiers, the Feral unarmored and the Sokesh, a genetic throwback to their origins (large flying predators). the two latter will not be posable, they will be very dynamic sculptures I would imagine the Ferals will have quite a few as they are more a mob component and the Sokesh will have 3 variant poses.

Thanks for all the info Mark! The lack of posability doesn't seem ideal if feedback is being solicited. Part of the awesomeness of your kits so far has been how posable and versatile they are.

I hear you... but my experience so far is that multi pose present design limitations. the direction of pull is a major issue when doing multi part minis. I think Mr Poots KD Phoenix is a great example, it is simply not possible to get that kind of detail from a posable mini, the engineers become limited by the parting points you provided rather than letting them split the model as needed to preserve the details.

Here is my opinion based on my experience so far with hard tooling:

Posable figure work well for core troops, unclothed mobs are better handled as primarily fixed pose variations... I can go wild with the poses. When I go posable, they tend to be stiff. This works for armored troops, where you can separate the arms, waist head, etc at natural points not ideal for unclothed minis. To get a very dynamic and natural pose in an unarmored mini you really need to fix the pose and allow the engineers to split them up in a manner that makes the most sense for preserving the small details and direction of pull.

If I can provide you 8-10 very dynamic very detailed minis for the Feral and the same kind of multi-pose for the Shadokesh troopers we get the best of both worlds.

Speaking for myself, that would work fine. I'm eagerly anticipating seeing the Shadokesh as a faction come together.

You've done some amazing work for the tabletop gaming hobby. Hopefully the Iron Core game will get on it's feet this year, and we can see things take off in 2015.

How are the 15mm Mortis coming along? Also when can we expect another 28mm scale leviathan?

On a side note I finally have my Morits all finished up with the exception of the upgraded coolers which arrived today = )

bladeiai, see Mark's posted above (spoilered below). The 15mm Mortis, 15mm arms, and APC are complete.

bladeiai wrote:
How are the 15mm Mortis coming along? Also when can we expect another 28mm scale leviathan?

On a side note I finally have my Morits all finished up with the exception of the upgraded coolers which arrived today = )

Have one in front of me, I am verifying the build and the part numbers on the instructions

Other 28mm Leviathans? perhaps...

Reading all of Mark's posts, he has been the most communicative game minis designer! I am happy for decent price and quality and am patient enough to wait for the Hanomags and their variants as well as the Valkyr and Black widows.

I need to track down more IG decals as I am out of the 144 decals for infantry as all my Eisenkerns are labeled 144 so I will use the vehicle scale decals for the hanomags and Crusader.

So far the waiting has been worth it Mark!