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In the Ork codex, the second paragraph of page 37 (weirdboy page) says

If the Weirdboy is in combat, do not apply any results of 1, 2 or 3 - instead the Weirdboy is treated as having a power weapon for the duration of the turn.

As far as i can tell, the FAQ does not cover this, so... What type of PW? What AP? In a game i recently played we just ruled it as a power Staff (since he is running around modeled with a staff). But what is Dakka's ruling on this?

 WarrKing wrote:
In the Ork codex, the second paragraph of page 37 (weirdboy page) says

If the Weirdboy is in combat, do not apply any results of 1, 2 or 3 - instead the Weirdboy is treated as having a power weapon for the duration of the turn.

As far as i can tell, the FAQ does not cover this, so... What type of PW? What AP? In a game i recently played we just ruled it as a power Staff (since he is running around modeled with a staff). But what is Dakka's ruling on this?

generic power weapons are just ap3 if i remember correctly.

Yea power weapons are AP3 unless stated otherwise.
For the record, Power Klaws are not power weapons, thats why theyre AP2 and Unwieldy.

If it just says "Power Weapon" you look at the model to determine the type of power weapon. However, HIWPI, since it is not always a power weapon, I believe it would fall under the category of Unusual Power Weapons and would use the S: User, AP: 3 profile.

Happyjew said:
If it just says "Power Weapon" you look at the model to determine the type of power weapon. However, HIWPI, since it is not always a power weapon, I believe it would fall under the category of Unusual Power Weapons and would use the S: User, AP: 3 profile.

This. The rule book says that many models are modeled with unusual power weapons. This imo would include psychic powers that are treated as power weapons for the sake of close combat.

For a psychic power I would say the player gets to choose what type of power weapon every time the power is cast. Its a manifestation of warp power, so looking at the model might not help.

 Flinty wrote:
For a psychic power I would say the player gets to choose what type of power weapon every time the power is cast. Its a manifestation of warp power, so looking at the model might not help.

"No Further Special Rules" So you may NEVER look at the model. If you may never look at the model, you may never 'CHOOSE' what kind it is as we are never given the ability to choose, simply the ability to look at the model to determine the type. But there is a further special rule...

I call only being a Power weapon on a 1,2,3 when in combat a 'further special rule' which then makes it unusual in all circumstances regardless of what is modeled. No Choosing to be a power axe.

Of course there is a choice. You can choose what weapon to give the model when you build the thing. Once the power has manifested it has no further special rules, unless you can deny the witch against it. In my mind the process is: power is cast, model is now armed with a power weapon that has no further special rules attached, player chooses what weapon type to use.

 Flinty wrote:
Of course there is a choice. You can choose what weapon to give the model when you build the thing. Once the power has manifested it has no further special rules, unless you can deny the witch against it. In my mind the process is: power is cast, model is now armed with a power weapon that has no further special rules attached, player chooses what weapon type to use.

Nope. Wrong.

Here's the RAW process:

"If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon with no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it is." BRB 61

Does the weirdboy have a power weapon in his wargear with no further special rules? No? Then he may never look at the model to determine the type. Ever. If you cannot look at the model, the IMPLIED choice doesn't exist.

"Many models have unusual power weapons that have one or more unique rules. If a power weapon has its own unique close combat rules, treat it as an AP3 Melee weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry." BRB 61

Since this power weapon granted by the psychic power has 'unique rules' IE: in combat, and roll 1/2/3, which means it is not always a power weapon and only happens based uon special rules, then it is unusual.

There is no ability to EVER choose what kind of power weapon, and there are loads of special rules attached which prevent it from being a normal power weapon.

But the power weapon has no unique rules assigned. The method of its generation is non-standard but my understanding is that once generated the weapon itself is not special therefore it must be one of the standard types. As you say you can't tell what it is from the model therefore the player must define the weapon.

 Flinty wrote:
But the power weapon has no unique rules assigned. The method of its generation is non-standard but my understanding is that once generated the weapon itself is not special therefore it must be one of the standard types. As you say you can't tell what it is from the model therefore the player must define the weapon.

BURNA FAQ disagrees with your logic. If method of 'generating the weapon' were not counted as 'special rules' then burnas would be able to be any type of power weapon as well.

They are not, because burna's have 'further special rules' and 'unique special rules' the same way a weirdboy does which means AP3...

And the rules NEVER allow the player to 'define the weapon'. You may only 'look at the model' to determine the type when there are no special rules... Player 'defining' and 'choice' are all implied but not supported by actual rules. (and don't apply due to the weirdboy further special rules)

nkelsch wrote:
"Many models have unusual power weapons that have one or more unique rules. If a power weapon has its own unique close combat rules

Like say being a psychic power? Requiring both a psychic test and rolling 1-3 on the weird boy table? Sounds very unique. I think your problem is that you think the unique bit should be, how can i put this, part of the power weapons rules not part of the rules to use it. The thing is all of the rules are part of the power weapon, Its like a burna ... unless your also saying if you model a burna to be a flame axe.

Unfortunately the rules for the weirdboy powers belong to the powers not the the power weapon. It's like saying that because you bought the weapon due to a special character option (similar to cybork bodies) the power weapon has special rules. The power weapon created does not have special rules the power that created it does.

Gravmyr wrote:
Unfortunately the rules for the weirdboy powers belong to the powers not the the power weapon. It's like saying that because you bought the weapon due to a special character option (similar to cybork bodies) the power weapon has special rules. The power weapon created does not have special rules the power that created it does.

We're not talking about a purchase option, we are talking about a power weapon. It has special rules attached, to its use, so it is a special power weapon and AP3.

If taking a character gave you the option to take power weapons for Xpts, that would be fine as its done before the game so you could choices what to model on. Now if there was an option for a some one to give power weapons to x for free (something along the lines of "one unit in the army may be given power weapons at the start of the game") then that would also be a unique power weapon.

We can clearly see this is how it should work as burnas are power weapons, If modeled as an axe they should be a power axe but the FAQ clearly shows that since it has rules on its use it becomes unique.

You are still incorporating the rules of the power into the power weapon, they are separate. The rules of the weapon created (power weapon), that is it. The rules of the power are the block of text. Source of a weapon is irrelevant. What you look at is what power does the weapon possess. List the powers of the weapon please.

Gravmyr wrote:
You are still incorporating the rules of the power into the power weapon, they are separate. The rules of the weapon created (power weapon), that is it. The rules of the power are the block of text. Source of a weapon is irrelevant. What you look at is what power does the weapon possess. List the powers of the weapon please.

Source of the weapon is irrelevant?
Q: What type of power weapon is a burna in combat? (p45)
A: A burna is an unusual power weapon when used in close
combat, therefore it is AP3.

Burna may be used as a power weapon. A Psychic power which is "treated as having a power weapon" . I fail to see a difference in these unique power weapons.

By source of weapon I mean whether it comes from a power or bought as wargear. All the rules for the Burna are together for the Burna which is what makes the Burna a power weapon with special rules. The CC part of Weirdboy Psychic Power tells you the model is treated as having a power weapon and that is all. There are no special rules for said power weapon so the Weirdboy does not have a unique power weapon just a power weapon. For the Weirdboy to have a unique power weapon the power would have to give special rules for the power weapon.

What are the special rules of the power weapon created by the WPP rule?

Gravmyr wrote:
By source of weapon I mean whether it comes from a power or bought as wargear. All the rules for the Burna are together for the Burna which is what makes the Burna a power weapon with special rules. The CC part of Weirdboy Psychic Power tells you the model is treated as having a power weapon and that is all. There are no special rules for said power weapon so the Weirdboy does not have a unique power weapon just a power weapon. For the Weirdboy to have a unique power weapon the power would have to give special rules for the power weapon.

What are the special rules of the power weapon created by the WPP rule?

.... Yes, ok your ignoring the point that its a generated as part of a psychic power and vanishes at the end of that turn. So lets not beat a dead horse and go backwards and forwards .... The other problem with trying to use its as any power weapon, rather then a unique power weapon, is that it isn't wargear. If a model has a power weapon as wargear we look to the model, the weird boy does not have a power weapon as wargear so we don't look to see how its modeled.

The fact it disappears at the end of the current phase (or whenever it does) is a special rule of the weapon, thus making it an unusual power weapon.

Yeah, it's perhaps worth an faq for clarity, but treating it as a unique power weapon seems the cleanest approach.

Tri there is nothing in the game that differentiates between the source of a weapon. It can come from anywhere the game doesn't care. It is as simple as saying that the power turn the weapon he is wielding into a power weapon as it is to say one is created. It might be the easiest way to do it but in the end we are looking at RAW and that is not what the rules are telling us to do. The power ends at the end of the turn that is not a function of the weapon but of the power. It would be like saying you have a special toaster because when the power is shut off it doesn't work.

The rule is that older codex simply called them all power weapons so it didn't matter but now it does. We have to follow the protocol they set up which says look at the model.

Gravmyr wrote:
Tri there is nothing in the game that differentiates between the source of a weapon. It can come from anywhere the game doesn't care. It is as simple as saying that the power turn the weapon he is wielding into a power weapon as it is to say one is created. It might be the easiest way to do it but in the end we are looking at RAW and that is not what the rules are telling us to do. The power ends at the end of the turn that is not a function of the weapon but of the power. It would be like saying you have a special toaster because when the power is shut off it doesn't work.

The rule is that older codex simply called them all power weapons so it didn't matter but now it does. We have to follow the protocol they set up which says look at the model.

None of this is true, or RAW, and conflicts with other FAQs. The twisted interpretation is not supported by any RAW and you may only 'look at the model' under a very limited capacity which specifies wargear which this situation does not apply.

Looking at the model doesn't help in this situation, since the unit in question doesn't have any weapons...

I would count it as an unusual/unique power weapon and make it AP3, strikes at initiative, but that's me.

The wierdboy carries a staff, but there's nothing saying that that is what got power-weaponed. He could be beating you with a power-weaponized grot or booting you with an armour-ignoring big green foot..

 insaniak wrote:
Looking at the model doesn't help in this situation, since the unit in question doesn't have any weapons...

Hence my assertion that the owning player gets to choose a power weapon type

Why?

 Flinty wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Looking at the model doesn't help in this situation, since the unit in question doesn't have any weapons...

Hence my assertion that the owning player gets to choose a power weapon type

Nowhere in any rule does a player EVER get the ability to choose a power weapon type. Not even for regular power weapons, the player only gets an IMPLIED choice by customizing his model, something the rulebook is mute about. But that means it is NEVER RAW in any capacity. You have to make up rules for that to apply, and ignore rules as we already have a profile for unique CC rules... which this very clearly in all situations is.