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2014/01/07 18:31:47
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Fixture of Dakka
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 -DE- wrote:@Everyone. Yes we are behind the original estimated delivery date. And you are all backers, not customers. Starting fulfillment in march is not likely, as all of February the factories in china will be shut down for Chinese new year. It also takes on the average 6 weeks for a shipment to travel across the sea and clear customs.
Aaand he's lost me as a future customer. Good going.
It also cements my resolution to auction off all of my "pledge rewards" save the resin Phoenix, once they arrive, that is. If I manage to get back what I spent, I'll be happy.
Can I ask why you feel that way?
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Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.
40k- The Kumunga Swarm  (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team  (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow  (less)
Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. |
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2014/01/07 18:43:08
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)
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Weird, the vibe I got was that he placed "backers" higher than "customers". Based on his communication that's the vibe I got too. That he takes very seriously the supporters that got his product off the ground.
But maybe I'm totally oblivious to some context.
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Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) |
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2014/01/07 18:49:46
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Using Object Source Lighting
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It sucks, but, yeah, more than 3 months is hardly criminally slow in the KS world. Was really hoping this one would be close to on time since it's been running smoothly from what it appears, but them's the breaks :/
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2014/01/07 18:57:25
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, TX
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-DE- wrote:@Everyone. Yes we are behind the original estimated delivery date. And you are all backers, not customers. Starting fulfillment in march is not likely, as all of February the factories in china will be shut down for Chinese new year. It also takes on the average 6 weeks for a shipment to travel across the sea and clear customs.
Aaand he's lost me as a future customer. Good going.
It also cements my resolution to auction off all of my "pledge rewards" save the resin Phoenix, once they arrive, that is. If I manage to get back what I spent, I'll be happy.
That part is in reference to another posters comment of "this is not your project your nothing but a customer like all of us". And that comment was aimed at another poster who was reacting with hostility and negativity. There is a significant difference between a customer and a backer, and its worth remembering that.
Sell if you want, you'll no doubt make money off the deal. But at least know the context of the comment. Jeez, what a soundbite culture we've become.
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2014/01/07 19:04:20
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Fresh-Faced New User
Winnipeg, MB
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I'm proud to be a backer and not a customer. I think more people pledging on Kickstarter need to understand the difference. And I think more Creator's need to be like Adam and also recognize the difference. I can only think of a few other companies that continue to provide free stuff to the backers after the campaign is long over.
I'll be happy to receive this game mid-year. I can't even call it a delay, as the original expected delivery date was for a much smaller game.
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2014/01/07 19:05:28
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Fixture of Dakka
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Yep context is key here have a read through the recent comments and you'll see it kicked off between 2 backers Adam's comment is very much in the he values backers as much as if not more than customers sense you are not merely a customer to him as 1 backer put it , quoted on it's own it can be taken completely the opposite way to what he meant.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/07 19:06:07
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2014/01/07 19:09:43
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S
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This is him telling us we're not forgotten, like some companies tend to do when cash is in pocket and the waiting game begins.
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Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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2014/01/07 19:16:14
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Freelance Soldier
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Fair enough. I guess I'm sour after so many campaigns, or should I say company sockpuppets and apologists, whipping out the "you're merely a backer, so shut up" card every time someone demands to be treated with respect, like a customer that he in fact is. It's the number one reason I'll never back any campaign again.
Still, I'll be selling off all the resin I pledged for. If somebody's interested in taking it off my hands for the KS prices, send me a PM and I'll get back to you with a list of what I'm to receive.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/07 19:16:43
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2014/01/07 21:11:33
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Raging Rat Ogre
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I've come to a similar conclusion as -DE-, albeit for different reasons.
I'd like to rid myself of the pledge I put down for Kingdom Death: Monster.
Ideally I'd like to make back what I spent on it. I'll be recieving an all plastic order, Is it possible to somehow transfer a pledge or would it be easier to just wait it out and sell afterward?
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2014/01/07 21:19:22
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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[DCM]
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Selling it afterwards, while it would entail more work for you, will also undoubtedly net you more money as well.
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2014/01/07 23:00:43
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Dakka Veteran
London
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It's a very small gamble, depending on if/when retail hits (although the Kickstarter prices are almost certainly a good discount over that), but selling it off item by item definitely maximises profit if you can be bothered
For example, I'm at the survivor level only. I'd be quite interested in the Lantern Festival expansion, and have my doubts about waiting for retail, and paying the higher price, and VAT on top of that, and postage etc. - I'd be willing to pay a higher than Kickstarter price for it, but don't have a spare extra $250 for all the other expansions.
Transferring a pledge would involve changing your shipping address and a lot of trust from both parties, or re-shipping it once delivered!
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2014/01/07 23:23:58
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Major
In a van down by the river
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-DE- wrote:@Everyone. Yes we are behind the original estimated delivery date. And you are all backers, not customers. Starting fulfillment in march is not likely, as all of February the factories in china will be shut down for Chinese new year. It also takes on the average 6 weeks for a shipment to travel across the sea and clear customs.
Aaand he's lost me as a future customer. Good going.
It also cements my resolution to auction off all of my "pledge rewards" save the resin Phoenix, once they arrive, that is. If I manage to get back what I spent, I'll be happy.
I have a feeling you're misreading Adam's comment here. If you read his updates and other comments, Adam appears to view the KS backers having a much higher esteem for having faith in him sight unseen than a customer who waits until he can hold it in his hand before committing. As an example, KS backers will get the chance to add more things via pledge manager just before fulfillment based on his comments. Customers who got in on the Black Friday packages will not.
Unless that's what bothers you...in which case carry on.
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2014/01/08 00:09:36
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Using Object Source Lighting
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 Krinsath wrote:As an example, KS backers will get the chance to add more things via pledge manager just before fulfillment based on his comments. Customers who got in on the Black Friday packages will not.
Can you cite this? Not questioning, just curious, as I'd like to change some stuff and don't want to get my hopes up for nothing.
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2014/01/08 00:42:03
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Serious Squig Herder
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 spiralingcadaver wrote: Krinsath wrote:As an example, KS backers will get the chance to add more things via pledge manager just before fulfillment based on his comments. Customers who got in on the Black Friday packages will not.
Can you cite this? Not questioning, just curious, as I'd like to change some stuff and don't want to get my hopes up for nothing.
I don't have a link handy or anything. But he posted a comment around the time of the Black Friday buy-in that said there would be one more chance to adjust things via the pledge manager before everything shipped.
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2014/01/08 01:13:59
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Using Object Source Lighting
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Oh, cool, thanks 
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2014/01/08 01:30:21
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Major
In a van down by the river
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Other comments responding to multiple people where he said this, but this one was nice and simple:
We will have a final round of letting people add to their pledge, but it won't be until next year.
The end of this comment also makes Adam's view re:backers a bit clearer (missed comma aside):
I can see where Justin is coming from. Not only does it dilute the purity of what Kickstarter is meant to be a little bit[,] It also shows that we are devoting resources away from the project to handle more on-boarding. That is the major reason why we made it much more restrictive for late backers, they are not added to the pledge manager.
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2014/01/08 03:57:08
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth
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 legoburner wrote:
I've been to the factory in China where these are being made (see this thread) and can say with confidence that the terms that they have together, the skills and niceness of the people in that factory and the sizes of the teams involved, both at the factory and on poot's end give me absolutely no concern about the project delivering. I've spoken to poots on a number of occasions and while things were pretty crazy at the start due to the immensity of the kickstarter, things now look very good and there will certainly be a very high quality product delivered at the end, in line with people's expectations.
That's awesome to hear, lego! I really want WGF to do well, and all those who have been giving them jobs of course.
And that Storm Knight looks incredible. Probably won't be buying any of this myself- too many other projects. But I want it to succeed!
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2014/01/08 06:47:19
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Very interesting thing for me to learn here!
That is, whenever I make a public post ( anywhere ), I should always include any and all context related to the information I am sharing. Soundbytes can be tricky!
So that kickstarter comment should have been unfolded. And read more like this:
@Everyone. Yes we are behind the original estimated delivery date of november 2013. The overfunded project and deliberate choice to pursue hard plastic instead of pvc is the direct cause of this. Everyone here is a backer, which is something I value at a premium compared to a pure company to customer relationship. In the update before the holiday update, I pushed the estimated release date back to Q2. Starting fulfillment in march is not likely, as all of February the factories in china will be shut down for Chinese new year. It also takes on the average 6 weeks for a shipment to travel across the sea and clear customs. However, once everything is finally sea bound, I will have a much more concise date on when fulfillment will begin."
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/08 06:48:09
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2014/01/08 06:53:18
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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I don't care how long it takes as long as there's good communication on when/why and updates of WIP pieces. Communication is important.
Look, things don't always go as planned, that's just the way it goes. People need to stop throwing fits every time there's a stumble.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/08 06:54:50
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2014/01/08 09:37:56
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Soul Token
West Yorkshire, England
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spiralingcadaver wrote:It sucks, but, yeah, more than 3 months is hardly criminally slow in the KS world. Was really hoping this one would be close to on time since it's been running smoothly from what it appears, but them's the breaks :/
And at least this one actually has a good reason for delays (absolutely nobody was expecting it to explode like it did), other than "We're ridiculous optimists and based our deadline on nothing unexpected happening ever."
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"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich." |
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2014/01/08 15:04:15
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Fixture of Dakka
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-DE- wrote:@Everyone. Yes we are behind the original estimated delivery date. And you are all backers, not customers. Starting fulfillment in march is not likely, as all of February the factories in china will be shut down for Chinese new year. It also takes on the average 6 weeks for a shipment to travel across the sea and clear customs.
Aaand he's lost me as a future customer. Good going.
It also cements my resolution to auction off all of my "pledge rewards" save the resin Phoenix, once they arrive, that is. If I manage to get back what I spent, I'll be happy.
Thats a little harsh, don't you think?
He's been nothing but top drawer on the whole project, That blurb there doesn't mean anything at all.
Seeing as the top shelf quality of how I've seen this project go, I'll go on out and say that your misquoting him here.
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At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. |
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2014/01/08 15:55:27
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Freelance Soldier
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Which has already been covered, if you'd care to read further posts. Doesn't change the fact that it applies to plenty of kickstarters and is frankly a disgusting attitude to have towards your clients.
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2014/01/08 15:59:15
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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[DCM]
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Yes, it has already been covered, and answered - and by Adam himself, in this very thread, 3 posts up from the Grotster!
At the end of the day, Adam is probably the best at NOT making his backers feel like second class citizens.
In fact, just the opposite!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/08 16:00:07
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2014/01/08 18:01:36
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Major
In a van down by the river
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Yep. I feel incredibly fortunate to have (so far) selected projects where the creators put forth the effort to make the backers feel valued, even if the timelines or products don't always work out like everyone hoped. There's a certain level of appreciation to be shown by trying to deliver that extra little bit over what "plain" retail gets that makes me more likely to give creators shiny gold rocks in the future.
Having read plenty of horror stories, and dodged a few bullets, I do think we've chosen quite well in that regard with backing KD:M and the time when our packages full of yummy goodness appear will not be soon enough.
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2014/01/09 21:51:51
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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[DCM]
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It is coming...
 Creator Kingdom Death 1 day ago
I am waiting on a particular sample from the factory to make the update. Once I have it in hand, I will assemble, photo and share!
Is he waiting for the Dragon King?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/09 21:52:10
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2014/01/09 22:52:49
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Using Object Source Lighting
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Yeah, that's what I'm expecting.
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2014/01/10 07:43:47
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S
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Same here, that was the one that had to be completely redone and was part of the delay no?
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Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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2014/01/10 08:47:09
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Yes
(if it is the Dragon King of course, you never know with that tricksy Poots)
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2014/01/14 18:46:45
Subject: Re:Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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[DCM]
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Interesting hints on future things:
Creator Kingdom Death 1 day ago
- Living Rules -
We will just have to wait and see! I plan on supporting and nurturing the Kingdom Death community to the fullest extent of our ability. But without the game being released its something thats very hard to predict. It's also very true that until all the shipping starts, all of the internal resources are just too busy to begin laying the proper groundwork for community support. The very loose plan is to just tackle it in a very organic fashion, so that we can grow it to meet the demands of the player base as it goes. I see KD:M's future being all about custom campaigns and I'd love to make future releases that support that notion. That way a gaming group can really decide their customization level before starting a campaign. Some players might enjoy for example, a more in depth survivor generation system that gave them a few personality quirks, while others may just enjoy the pure tactical and very math side of the game and could setup an aggressive timeline filled with nothing but very hard fights in an effort to get their settlement ahead of schedule and have more time to tackle the optional legendary monsters hidden in the game.
I'd also love to publish online rules for playing with a game master. Where an extra player actually controls the monster by drawing a "hand" from its AI deck.
And lastly, we have already started talking about monster on monster combat with a pair of custom AI decks.
The possibilities feel kinda limitless right now! And it's really hard to push everything away and fully focused with the tasks at hand but its a big big must!
All I can say, is that I want to support the life of the game with a slew of super experimental rules ( in addition to expansions ) and if stuff sticks then we can figure out how to roll it into a published version of sorts.
But yeah, one step at a time! hehe
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2014/01/16 11:28:13
Subject: Kingdom Death : Monster - News and Rumors Thread - (Updated Dec 26th)
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Calculating Commissar
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Sounds interesting. It would be nice to be able to get the rules as a tablet app that updates with any optional rules as and when. Unlikely, but I can dream, right? 
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