Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Update #2 is out. It's a little underwhelming. I guess Adam shouldn't have gone to sleep last night...

There are probably a dozen unlocked SGs that he kinda needs to share sooner rather than later.

I do hope one of the stretchgoals is hiring an editor, or at the very least someone to make sure those typos don't return for another round..

Ooh, another one would be PROPER build guides, thank you very much.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Update #2 is out. It's a little underwhelming. I guess Adam shouldn't have gone to sleep last night...

There are probably a dozen unlocked SGs that he kinda needs to share sooner rather than later.

The biggest issue I've had with Adam is the need to put a ton of detail/graphics into updates, rather than a quick message and more detail later. It would be nice if he quickly noted each of the stretch goals hit in an update and then spent the next couple weeks going in depth with each in an update.

Im just waiting to see the Lantern Festival bits available for a Wave 1 shipment date, considering all of it has been tooled and he has had years to work on it.

As for these updates, its classic Poots, dude still doesnt know how a Kickstarter works. He knew this was going to explode and yet again he is woefully unprepared. Thanks for the 3.7mil stretch goal.... how about posting all the stuff WE ALREADY unlocked, explain what comes with the 1.5 update, give more detail on your "random" dice rolling Gambler pledge.

KS 1 felt like it was an endeavor of love and passion for his Idea,
KS 2 feels motivated by not loosing money. I respect he is more honest with his shipping costs and delivery date, but that looks like all he was prepared for.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
Is that Armor kit package still available?

As to the Lantern Festival- I expect that we will see it later in the week or next month. There was a large contention on that one, and they were supposed to address it in this KS. People were going on about it being pushed for a higher price, and there were some sour grapes, but at the end of the day he did give a refund back on it, so it goes to logic that there will probably be more to the add, and we will get info on it when he's got it settled.

In hindsight of the Festival expansion, I think it is going to be one of those larger expansions with a higher pricetag, and I wouldn't be surprised or shocked if it is one of the $110+ packages. The old one had a good amount of additions, and in the change to the P and H from the beginning of KS1, I can see the big issues revolving around packaging, shipping, and weight. My base box was around 5-10 lbs or so with the base game.

People are rightly pissed about the Lantern Festival. He agreed to sell a product for one price, then of his own volition, kept adding stuff to it and priced it out of his initial offering. It's kind of crummy to just say oops, refund the original payment years later (thanks for the no interest loan!), and then immediately offer it for a jacked up rate and saddled with a yet more stuff the previous customer may or may not want.

If we're going to be forced to get a "foot int eh door" type pledge, it would also be nice to get the hunt board reprinted on sturdy cardboard. I've seen stronger cereal boxes.

I can agree that people were disappointed, but that expansion has about 4-5 45.00 expansions in it from last count and counting... Honestly, it is not going to do any good at the end of the day to say- "Hey, gimme!" when you followed the conversation and he gives back the 45.00 and pulls it. I saw it from the outside looking in on exactly how he came to the decision. Do I fault him? Not really, when I have already resolved that the narrative didn't fit the reality, and Having the experience that I have in this sort of thing.

I don't know about others, but he gave me a refund, and I expected, and had already called the decision early, so I was not at all surprised. Did that cushion my blow- I think it did, honestly. I do see how others are rightly P.O.ed at it, though, and I can sympathize with your ire.

These figures are being sold at 45- 100.00 each, why would he add in 4-5 of them in one go, when all through the campaign there were extensive delays, changes, and evolutions to the end-state? He's my pal? He owes me? I'm not trying to argue, but at the end of the day- how many times has KS delivered, honestly?
Kickstarter, at the end of the day- is a gamble. It is exactly a "No interest Loan". KS on numerous occasions have shown that they are not responsible, and creators developed their projects as they see fit. Is it a !@#$ move? yes, but it was not expected when it was on par with the rest of the project.

YMMV, but mine has sucked so bad that I don't even back projects anymore unless I really get a good feeling for it. Even when you throw a Monty Haul at me in the way that this one was, I go in eyes wide open, and don't even expect them to even be completed. This KS was one of those that honestly put me off of KS's. That he in the end dropped that last expansion or two was not only expected, but as I said- I had already called it a couple of years back when we even started hearing the discussion on the change of material from PVC to the hard plastic. Along with that, The more a project throws at you, the more you need to tune up your B.S. Meter. This new one is no exception.

There is no feasible way that you would have or will have ever recieved that Lantern festival for any less then $100.00+. Honestly, I can say that he wrote a check that his Azz couldn't cash and I chalk it up to "Champagne nightmares and caviar dreams".

On the cardstock- I completely agree, and would hope that there was an open way to get a better one, such as paying for P and H, or getting it exchanged for a better one. Hopes to those that get in on the new KS that you get a higher quality one.

I do have to say, the "Gamblers" D100 table element of this KS comes across as one of the most dubious KS ideas ever since that famous KS for "watch me make potato salad"...

Right now, IF I back this, it'll be at Ancient Golden, which is objectively an excellent deal... but the pledges for new content, at least at this moment, will run you more than $900, and will force you into paying for pinups and such, which many of us would never have bought.... whereas at $750 Ancient Gold gets you pure gameplay at 50-60% off msrp, period.

Certain things about the campaign feel a bit...cynical?...this time around?

The pledge amounts, and especially that 1st Pinup Stretch Goal amount.

However, at well over $3.5M in Day One, there are certainly a lot of people quite happy this time around too!

 Alpharius wrote:
Certain things about the campaign feel a bit...cynical?...this time around?

The pledge amounts, and especially that 1st Pinup Stretch Goal amount.

However, at well over $3.5M in Day One, there are certainly a lot of people quite happy this time around too!

Cynical is a polite way to put it. I am honestly doing something wrong, not to be a multimillionaire in a couple of hours.

If anything this is going to be an interesting ride to be on, or watch. What is that old saying about thunder striking twice?

-Caveat Emptor.

 BrookM wrote:
I do hope one of the stretchgoals is hiring an editor, or at the very least someone to make sure those typos don't return for another round..

Ooh, another one would be PROPER build guides, thank you very much.

hell yeah. it is rather minor, but it's the thing that bother me the most abour KD 1. Shows a bit of a lack of respect toward the buyers to not have them after waiting all this time

Im annoyed and frustrated about the first stretch goal. Hopefully we've already unlocked everything he had planned for this. What i want to see now, based on the success of this, is that he hets creative and starts to design BEYOND what was planned for this KS. Show us new player character & monster sketches and take the time later to figure out how they'll play. Now that we're way past every planned SG this should ve like a Mierce KS... regukar updates over the years about sculptors modelibg based off the concept art. I mean, what else should this 2020 delivery date be for?

Im irritated There is no explanation for anything on his KS page, and when I bring it up in the comments im already attacked by his White Knights.

I have every right to ask whats in the $60 upgrade package.. For all we know its a sticky note with scribbled rules corrections on it.. not that it isnt, but for $60 I'd really like to know more detail.

I'd back the Gamblers pledge but like everything else, there is no explanation. Might not even be a 2nd roll... NO ONE KNOWS

 streetsamurai wrote:
really a microcosm of everything that is great and bad with KD. Long delay, bad communication, but incredible theme and mini. Probably will pledge but will wait to see a bit more of the content before doing so.

I'd say that's pretty accurate.

Unfortunately due to my experience of the bad section and some d-bag called "Zak" in customer services over the last two weeks, instead of wading into this KS with a large amount of $$, I'm going to be selling off my substantial collection of game content and plastic models.

Adding my own review/analysis for potential backers: here

 greywulf wrote:
Im annoyed and frustrated about the first stretch goal. Hopefully we've already unlocked everything he had planned for this. What i want to see now, based on the success of this, is that he hets creative and starts to design BEYOND what was planned for this KS. Show us new player character & monster sketches and take the time later to figure out how they'll play. Now that we're way past every planned SG this should ve like a Mierce KS... regukar updates over the years about sculptors modelibg based off the concept art. I mean, what else should this 2020 delivery date be for?

The 2020 date is so he doesn't get slammed when he gets behind schedule.

He's also said that he doesn't expect delivery to actually take that long.

Chopxsticks wrote:
Im irritated There is no explanation for anything on his KS page, and when I bring it up in the comments im already attacked by his White Knights.

I have every right to ask whats in the $60 upgrade package.. For all we know its a sticky note with scribbled rules corrections on it.. not that it isnt, but for $60 I'd really like to know more detail.

I'd back the Gamblers pledge but like everything else, there is no explanation. Might not even be a 2nd roll... NO ONE KNOWS

Scroll to the bottom and see if the answers are in the FAQ.

So this kickstarter is essentially the only way i can get kingdom death right? judging by the almost 4 million in 24 hours im guessing the game is worth the very hefty price tag?

Chopxsticks wrote:
Im irritated There is no explanation for anything on his KS page, and when I bring it up in the comments im already attacked by his White Knights.

I have every right to ask whats in the $60 upgrade package.. For all we know its a sticky note with scribbled rules corrections on it.. not that it isnt, but for $60 I'd really like to know more detail.

I'd back the Gamblers pledge but like everything else, there is no explanation. Might not even be a 2nd roll... NO ONE KNOWS

Honestly- Wait and watch for a few days, the show has only just begun...

Yeah... not super-happy w/ how stuff's been managed. More transparency on what pledge levels actually consist of should have been already in the copy.

Also, the first stretch goal being a pinup rather than a monster seemed like a bit of a cop-out, considering how much the goals got blown out of the water.

 Baragash wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
really a microcosm of everything that is great and bad with KD. Long delay, bad communication, but incredible theme and mini. Probably will pledge but will wait to see a bit more of the content before doing so.

I'd say that's pretty accurate.

Unfortunately due to my experience of the bad section and some d-bag called "Zak" in customer services over the last two weeks, instead of wading into this KS with a large amount of $$, I'm going to be selling off my substantial collection of game content and plastic models.

Care to elaborate?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Adding my own review/analysis for potential backers: here

Absolutely required reading on this one. Great article!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Yeah... not super-happy w/ how stuff's been managed. More transparency on what pledge levels actually consist of should have been already in the copy.

Also, the first stretch goal being a pinup rather than a monster seemed like a bit of a cop-out, considering how much the goals got blown out of the water.

I'm honestly shocked on such a lukewarm KS presentation. The worst thing about it is that it has not really discussed the project, goals and ways and means enough, or the way ahead. With as much as he was pimping the Black Friday project ,"thing", it is completely underwhelming.

For over 4 million, I expect a little something to start with other then thanks.

So it seems like a bad thing that this has gone crazy.

1) The campaign going crazy last time is what lead to Poots going crazy with stretch goals and everything which lead to years' long delivery times/cancellation of the lantern festival.

2) The first "real" stretch goal - a pin up - is now at nearly 4 million dollars. But I'm guessing the campaign has attracted a good 70% of it's potential backers already (I can't believe he got 666 people to give him $1700 already).

Feel like the campaign is already going to be an overwhelming mess again, like the first one.

Maybe he can use the money to buy a plastic tooling machine so everything he makes can be readily available to purchase?

 Grot 6 wrote:
Cynical is a polite way to put it. I am honestly doing something wrong, not to be a multimillionaire in a couple of hours.

Poots is not a millionaire. That isn't his pocket money. He has obligations that are of the same scale as his revenue. At best, he's now a fractional millionaire if he built in a typical 10% net profit, which might partly offset the money that he sunk into delivering the first KS...

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
really a microcosm of everything that is great and bad with KD. Long delay, bad communication, but incredible theme and mini. Probably will pledge but will wait to see a bit more of the content before doing so.

I'd say that's pretty accurate.

Unfortunately due to my experience of the bad section and some d-bag called "Zak" in customer services over the last two weeks, instead of wading into this KS with a large amount of $$, I'm going to be selling off my substantial collection of game content and plastic models.

Care to elaborate?

Sure. I emigrated from the UK to Oz at the start of this week. I bought a couple of things in the Halloween sale, and in the special instructions I asked if they could hold it for a few weeks until I had a permanent address they could send to.

Personally I think it was a reasonable request, and both Mierce (and for whatever Rob's historic faults, he bends over backwards to help his Darklands customers) and Mantic have had no problem at all with a similar request for much, much bigger orders.

Zak said "no", no biggie, the address I used is my parents address. Where it went awry was after saying they couldn't hold it he asked if the original address was ok. Then in less than 24 hours without giving me a chance to reply (which I didn't have because I was busy moving house and emptying our rental flat of all our possessions) he just cancelled the order and basically said "screw you" by saying you can purchase these things in a future sale.

Well I might be able to get the Pin-up Wet Nurse in the future, but I'm not sure the Trick or Treat bag will be back ever, so it may not even be true.

Rather than respond to Zak, I e-mailed Adam directly about it nearly 2 weeks ago, no response. Now, before any one points out how busy he must have been leading up to the Kickstarter, for 4 years (funnily enough during the first KS fulfilment) my wife ran a business with my support, whilst getting pregnant and giving birth, with accounting and legal support from me whilst I was still working a full time (and regularly more than 9-5) job (and also working on two Mantic Rules Committees), so I have a very, very good idea of what it's like - if customers are important to you, these things get dealt with.

Anyway, up to now I've managed to buy all the game content and all the plastic models even if there was no game content. As a collector, not being able to collect things through terrible customer service has soured the whole experience for me and I'm not going to keep throwing money at someone in this situation.

On top of that, I've now missed out on the Black Friday Ninja because I was reluctant to buy with this unresolved.

Now I have the fun of opening a credit card dispute over the exchange rate loss I took on the unreasonable refund if he doesn't respond to my last attempt to deal with the situation (all have been polite I might add).

 Breotan wrote:
The 2020 date is so he doesn't get slammed when he gets behind schedule.

He's also said that he doesn't expect delivery to actually take that long.

One can only hope...
____

Hbbyaddict wrote:
So this kickstarter is essentially the only way i can get kingdom death right? judging by the almost 4 million in 24 hours im guessing the game is worth the very hefty price tag?

If you don't back, here, you can pay a LOT more on eBay or later, assuming it's available... Just looking at the quantity and quality of the minis and what they would cost anywhere else, and the base game is definitely worth $200. That it has a game with neat artwork is a huge bonus.

But really, most of us are backing on hope. The 1.5 upgrade is roughly worth $40-50 bucks. The Gambler's stuff is up in the air, and needs to backfill value into the $150-ish pledge amount. If not, this KS will collapse nearly as fast as it shot up. But we have 40+ days to make that decision.

I really wish he would show all that has been unlocked instead of drawing it out...

Is anyone actually surprised that the KS is a bit of a cluster***? The final product is great, but it's not like there wasn't poor communication and piles of delays on the first one.

Last time he fell victim to (100% self-inflicted) feature creep so he put a much longer delivery frame to compensate. But he didn't think two steps ahead to the fact this one might be madness from minute 0 instead of only at the end like the first one.

Hbbyaddict wrote:
So this kickstarter is essentially the only way i can get kingdom death right? judging by the almost 4 million in 24 hours im guessing the game is worth the very hefty price tag?

You can wait for eBay, but someone wants $480 for the core.

Read the reviews on BGG to see if you would like the game. It's definitely a niche game, so those who like it REALLY like it, but you might not be part of this niche. The miniatures are pretty high end, of course.

Grot 6, thanks, and yes, agreed with you and Schmapdi, it's kinda' weird how little info it's providing and that it might be a problem that it exploded out of the gate.


Nostro, yeah, whether it's intentional or not, step 1 I learned from KS'ing stuff is to have basically prepared copy for most of your stretch goals well ahead of time.Whether he thought it would take a week or a day, I'm a bit disappointed that he hadn't nailed down all the info for the first $1m. I expect some of it's pacing out the info, but it seems like a paucity of info considering the activity...

ecurtz wrote:
Is anyone actually surprised that the KS is a bit of a cluster***? The final product is great, but it's not like there wasn't poor communication and piles of delays on the first one.

Last time he fell victim to (100% self-inflicted) feature creep so he put a much longer delivery frame to compensate. But he didn't think two steps ahead to the fact this one might be madness from minute 0 instead of only at the end like the first one.

I'm not surprised at all. It's not like Adam had meticulous planning for the previous KS, scope management, editing, or delivery timeframes. That's not how he is. To expect him to run and deliver a KS like an accountant is completely unrealistic, especially given our previous experience. That said, he has an unwavering commitment to quality and doing the right thing. So going in eyes wide open, it's not an issue.

Nice to see he's retroactively releasing the stretch goals we've already unlocked.... Oh wait, no he isn't.

Looks like we'll end up with half the goals locked as I imagine 80% of this campaign's funding has already been hit and he'll stick them up at stupid money levels.

Wow, so we get an update a day... I wish I could call him a F*ing liar on the KS thread but all his White Knights would drown out any constructive criticism. Its baffling that it could be weeks to see what was unlocked today. I just want to know whats in the 1.5 upgrade pack....