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1/ Dont ressurect threads please...

2/ Even with Iron Arm, Skarbrand will still eat Swarmy

 IHateNids wrote:
1/ Dont ressurect threads please...

2/ Even with Iron Arm, Skarbrand will still eat Swarmy

Nah, with Iron Arm the swarmlord will probably kill skarbrand, Skar would need to kill him in the charge otherwise there is a big chance that he dies.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
1/ Dont ressurect threads please...

2/ Even with Iron Arm, Skarbrand will still eat Swarmy

Nah, with Iron Arm the swarmlord will probably kill skarbrand, Skar would need to kill him in the charge otherwise there is a big chance that he dies.

does skarbrand inflict ID. I thought he just had fleshbane.

 Exergy wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
1/ Dont ressurect threads please...

2/ Even with Iron Arm, Skarbrand will still eat Swarmy

Nah, with Iron Arm the swarmlord will probably kill skarbrand, Skar would need to kill him in the charge otherwise there is a big chance that he dies.

does skarbrand inflict ID. I thought he just had fleshbane.

Fleshbane and Instant Death. Swarmy's in trouble if he doesn't get Iron Arm.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
1/ Dont ressurect threads please...

2/ Even with Iron Arm, Skarbrand will still eat Swarmy

Nah, with Iron Arm the swarmlord will probably kill skarbrand, Skar would need to kill him in the charge otherwise there is a big chance that he dies.

does skarbrand inflict ID. I thought he just had fleshbane.

Fleshbane and Instant Death. Swarmy's in trouble if he doesn't get Iron Arm.

Yup, if he get its thou, he can take 2-3 wounds and them make a few wounds back to skarbrand and instakillhim

 labmouse42 wrote:
What I found fascinating by this excercise was how bad the imperial ICs compared to the xenos ones. I would not have guessed it, but it seems xenos/chaos have the better ICs.

I would say thats only true if you are looking specifically at challenges.

From a tactical stand point of best army support and synergy the Imperium has some nice ICs.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
1/ Dont ressurect threads please...

2/ Even with Iron Arm, Skarbrand will still eat Swarmy

Nah, with Iron Arm the swarmlord will probably kill skarbrand, Skar would need to kill him in the charge otherwise there is a big chance that he dies.

does skarbrand inflict ID. I thought he just had fleshbane.

Fleshbane and Instant Death. Swarmy's in trouble if he doesn't get Iron Arm.

Yup, if he get its thou, he can take 2-3 wounds and them make a few wounds back to skarbrand and instakillhim

How can the Swarmlord take 2-3 wounds if each wound caused causes Instant Death? Skarbrand has a great chance at killing the Swarmlord if he gets the charged, a slightly smaller chance if he gets charged, and if he doesn't kill the Swarmlord then the swarmlord will kill him.

 McNinja wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
1/ Dont ressurect threads please...

2/ Even with Iron Arm, Skarbrand will still eat Swarmy

Nah, with Iron Arm the swarmlord will probably kill skarbrand, Skar would need to kill him in the charge otherwise there is a big chance that he dies.

does skarbrand inflict ID. I thought he just had fleshbane.

Fleshbane and Instant Death. Swarmy's in trouble if he doesn't get Iron Arm.

Yup, if he get its thou, he can take 2-3 wounds and them make a few wounds back to skarbrand and instakillhim

How can the Swarmlord take 2-3 wounds if each wound caused causes Instant Death? Skarbrand has a great chance at killing the Swarmlord if he gets the charged, a slightly smaller chance if he gets charged, and if he doesn't kill the Swarmlord then the swarmlord will kill him.

He meant if the Swarmlord gets Ironarm, which is a pretty decent possibility with him having 4 powers.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
1/ Dont ressurect threads please...

2/ Even with Iron Arm, Skarbrand will still eat Swarmy

Nah, with Iron Arm the swarmlord will probably kill skarbrand, Skar would need to kill him in the charge otherwise there is a big chance that he dies.

does skarbrand inflict ID. I thought he just had fleshbane.

Fleshbane and Instant Death. Swarmy's in trouble if he doesn't get Iron Arm.

Yup, if he get its thou, he can take 2-3 wounds and them make a few wounds back to skarbrand and instakillhim

How can the Swarmlord take 2-3 wounds if each wound caused causes Instant Death? Skarbrand has a great chance at killing the Swarmlord if he gets the charged, a slightly smaller chance if he gets charged, and if he doesn't kill the Swarmlord then the swarmlord will kill him.

He meant if the Swarmlord gets Ironarm, which is a pretty decent possibility with him having 4 powers.

Totally thought it was Endurance that granted EW. My bad lol.

Skarbrand will beat the out of them all
I10 hitting on 3s wounding on 2s insta-killing no- one stands a chance
Sadly getting him in combat is a problem

isn't Skarbrand a FDP?

C'mon. Another topic where people argue about Skarbrand vs Swarmlord. They're not ICs OP was talking about. Skarbrand would loose due to cheesy iron arm and fact that some bloodletter with cloak is eternal warrior while one of toughest BTs isn't.

hiveof_chimera wrote:
Skarbrand will beat the out of them all
I10 hitting on 3s wounding on 2s insta-killing no- one stands a chance
Sadly getting him in combat is a problem

Mayhaps you should actually read the thread prior to necroing it.

Seriously....this was a great thread, but lets start a new one.

Wow, major thread necromancy.

But, I need to disagree with your conclusion that Abbadon takes Typhus's Lunch Money.

Abbadon either hits on 3s, wounds on 4s vs 5++ FNP
or hitson 3s, wounds on 2s with rerolls vs 2+ FNP.

So ~.15 of Abby's attacks actually deal a wound with Drachnyn, its worse with the Talon of Horus.

Typhus hits on 4s, wounds on 3s vs a 4++ so ~.17 of his attacks deal a wound.

Abbadon only has two extra attacks vs Typhus. Typhus also denies Abbadon's Charge bonus.

Slight edge to Abbadon, but Typhus has a 2/3 chance of getting Gift of Contagion which turns the tables and makes the fight in Typhus' advantage.

Still a slight, and I mean slight edge to Abbandon, far from taking Typhus' lunch money.

As for Skarbrand, doesn't he only have Instant Death if he's the Warlord?

Zagman wrote:
Abbadon only has two extra attacks vs Typhus. Typhus also denies Abbadon's Charge bonus.

Remember the daemon weapon. Abbadon has between 2 and 8 more attacks than Typhus.

Typhus could be a real contender if he had EW and more attacks. Other than that he has a lot of the desireable traits.
In this case, its the lack of attacks that is his downfall. Typhus has 3 attacks. That means Abbadon has up to 366% more attacks than Typhus. That's why Typhus falls short.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Zagman wrote:
Abbadon only has two extra attacks vs Typhus. Typhus also denies Abbadon's Charge bonus.

Remember the daemon weapon. Abbadon has between 2 and 8 more attacks than Typhus.

Typhus could be a real contender if he had EW and more attacks. Other than that he has a lot of the desireable traits.
In this case, its the lack of attacks that is his downfall. Typhus has 3 attacks. That means Abbadon has up to 366% more attacks than Typhus. That's why Typhus falls short.

Manreaper is a Daemon weapon as well...

Although you're dead on about Typhus needing EW.

Since this thread was started - a new eldar codex dropped. Its been awhile

What about Asurmen now?

WS7, 2+/4++ save, eternal warrior, I7 and the chance to kill abaddon before he swings as his S5 sword forces a leadership test that removes from abby from play.
He also gets d3 warlord traits, although I don't think most will be useful.
Theres a lot of variables. My gut feeling still says abby, although I'd be very interested in the possible outcomes.

anonymou5 wrote:
Manreaper is a Daemon weapon as well...

Although you're dead on about Typhus needing EW.

Yea...your right. Oh well, ignore my last post

 labmouse42 wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:
Manreaper is a Daemon weapon as well...

Although you're dead on about Typhus needing EW.

Yea...your right. Oh well, ignore my last post

Heheh. Although to get even more off topic on how much lunch money Abbadon is collecting, Typhus not having EW is a good example of how the smash rules seem poorly constructed. Typhus can't step to a Riptide, because it can easily ID him. How silly is that? I mean normally, he'll have a zombie/friend TDA/etc to die for him, it's still silly that a melee focused character cannot fight a ranged focused MC that costs less than he does.

I know he isn't a IC but you've done him before, he just needs updating. I'm talking about the Avatar of Khaine with his all new stat line and Powers! The obvious new one is Disarming Strike, which will remove the Claw 2/3 times because of higher WS so that means Abbadon would be wounding on 5's most of the time. Second choice would be either Crushing Blow to wound on 2's or Battle Fortune for a 4++. 5 Wounds at T6 is hard to get through if you take away that Claw, while WS and I 10 with high base attacks makes him deadly. Whats the thoughts?

Karandras (s8 I7) and Jain Zar (Abbadon has WS 2 vs her) have a slim chance.

Asurmen can ID Abbadon (Direswords are "remove from play") and with the right warlord trait (re-roll saves of 1) he can go toe-to-toe

Asurmen will go first with only 3 attacks, but at s5 and ap2, he has a pretty good chance. 4++ invul (essentially 3++ with the right save) and EW - he has a decent shot.

Other dudes:
Bjorn
Lukas the trickster
Stern (zone of banishment)
Wraithlord/Knight (super-high toughness)

A fool's hope:
Ironclad Dread
Jaws/Warp Rift
Inquisitor Valeria/Any Necron wtih maze/MSS
Ghazkull+waaghh

hiveof_chimera wrote:
Skarbrand will beat the out of them all
I10 hitting on 3s wounding on 2s insta-killing no- one stands a chance
Sadly getting him in combat is a problem

As I pointed out way back when this thread was started, a necron overlord with MSS, phase shifter, Warscythe, and res orb can take out anything more than 50% of the time.

Vs skarbrand, he must pass the 3d6 leadership test or he hits himself. With Ld10, that's a 50% chance to fail the test on 3d6.

The 50% of the time skarbrand passes his test, he still has to hit, wound, and after all that the overlord has a 3++ save and even if you kill him he has a 50% chance to just stand back up...

Overlord is king.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Zagman wrote:
Abbadon only has two extra attacks vs Typhus. Typhus also denies Abbadon's Charge bonus.

Remember the daemon weapon. Abbadon has between 2 and 8 more attacks than Typhus.

Typhus could be a real contender if he had EW and more attacks. Other than that he has a lot of the desireable traits.
In this case, its the lack of attacks that is his downfall. Typhus has 3 attacks. That means Abbadon has up to 366% more attacks than Typhus. That's why Typhus falls short.

Typhus has a daemon weapon which evens out the discrepancy in their attacks slightly, and too boot hurts himself less!

Typhus doesn't need EW to take Abby.

Zagman wrote:
Wow, major thread necromancy.

But, I need to disagree with your conclusion that Abbadon takes Typhus's Lunch Money.

Abbadon either hits on 3s, wounds on 4s vs 5++ FNP
or hitson 3s, wounds on 2s with rerolls vs 2+ FNP.

So ~.15 of Abby's attacks actually deal a wound with Drachnyn, its worse with the Talon of Horus.

Typhus hits on 4s, wounds on 3s vs a 4++ so ~.17 of his attacks deal a wound.

Abbadon only has two extra attacks vs Typhus. Typhus also denies Abbadon's Charge bonus.

Slight edge to Abbadon, but Typhus has a 2/3 chance of getting Gift of Contagion which turns the tables and makes the fight in Typhus' advantage.

Still a slight, and I mean slight edge to Abbandon, far from taking Typhus' lunch money.

abby also has 33% more wounds

abby will also be striking first, so will always get 1 extra round of combat to kill typhus before typhus gets to strike.
it's close, but Typhus is gonna lose his money more often than not

 Exergy wrote:

Zagman wrote:
Wow, major thread necromancy.

But, I need to disagree with your conclusion that Abbadon takes Typhus's Lunch Money.

Abbadon either hits on 3s, wounds on 4s vs 5++ FNP
or hitson 3s, wounds on 2s with rerolls vs 2+ FNP.

So ~.15 of Abby's attacks actually deal a wound with Drachnyn, its worse with the Talon of Horus.

Typhus hits on 4s, wounds on 3s vs a 4++ so ~.17 of his attacks deal a wound.

Abbadon only has two extra attacks vs Typhus. Typhus also denies Abbadon's Charge bonus.

Slight edge to Abbadon, but Typhus has a 2/3 chance of getting Gift of Contagion which turns the tables and makes the fight in Typhus' advantage.

Still a slight, and I mean slight edge to Abbandon, far from taking Typhus' lunch money.

abby also has 33% more wounds

abby will also be striking first, so will always get 1 extra round of combat to kill typhus before typhus gets to strike.
it's close, but Typhus is gonna lose his money more often than not

Or.... they have the same number of wound...

Zagman wrote:

 Exergy wrote:


abby also has 33% more wounds

abby will also be striking first, so will always get 1 extra round of combat to kill typhus before typhus gets to strike.
it's close, but Typhus is gonna lose his money more often than not

Or.... they have the same number of wound...

they both have 4 wounds?

I really thought typhus had 3

big mek with shokk attack gun
kill all of the S chars with one shott while they fight
if hes stays near them if its 11 it also works


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

hiveof_chimera wrote:
Skarbrand will beat the out of them all
I10 hitting on 3s wounding on 2s insta-killing no- one stands a chance
Sadly getting him in combat is a problem

Mayhaps you should actually read the thread prior to necroing it.

no i just didnt see the new posts so i was attempting to remake it as people might not want a new one

Orbital bombartment in turn one? Str 10 ap1? Now you just need luck to not scatter XD

Don know if abby is an eternal warrior... which he might as well be..