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 More Dakka wrote:
Oh, my bad I guess that was just carryover from 5th where you could since he was just infantry.

No,IC's couldn't join him even in 5e. That "IC cannot join unit that only ever consist of single model" limitation was already in place in 5e, so if you played it that way you were breaking rules.

I'd still say Mephiston is the best beatstick character you can find outside 6e codexes (or C:Necrons), because every other SC was basically hit just as badly by the changes. It's really only in C:Necrons we start to see AP2 (well, AP1) weapons hitting at Initiative. At least if we're talking about marine codexes, not 100% sure if Eldar/DE have still some "ignores armour save" on their SC.

Martel732 wrote:
It's all good. GW is known for arcane rule placing.

True. Blaming GW for a lack of basic reading comprehension is silly, though.

Luide wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
Oh, my bad I guess that was just carryover from 5th where you could since he was just infantry.

No,IC's couldn't join him even in 5e. That "IC cannot join unit that only ever consist of single model" limitation was already in place in 5e, so if you played it that way you were breaking rules.

I'd still say Mephiston is the best beatstick character you can find outside 6e codexes (or C:Necrons), because every other SC was basically hit just as badly by the changes. It's really only in C:Necrons we start to see AP2 (well, AP1) weapons hitting at Initiative. At least if we're talking about marine codexes, not 100% sure if Eldar/DE have still some "ignores armour save" on their SC.

DE have plenty of high init AP2 weapons but they will likely be unnable to wound Mephy. A regular shadowfielded archon would need to roll a 6 to wound. If he did though mephy would be dead no save. Drazhar wouldnt get PE against him but could probably take him being str6 would do it. The duke might have no trouble hitting and wounding(rending posion), especially with reroll to wound. Still DE in 6th dont really do combat, so they would likely shoot him. And they can shoot him pretty well.

 More Dakka wrote:
Oh, my bad I guess that was just carryover from 5th where you could since he was just infantry.

FYI, the rule was the same in 5th.

You can always have a priest near him as he should never be far away from the rest of your army in the first place. I like feasty, and will continue to play him with his flaws. You just have to use him for different purposes now.

You can't send him after just anything, you have to select your targets wisely just like you do with everything else. Yeah he's expensive, but you get a powerhouse that can wipe troop picks off of the board.

Every time I field him I'm only worried about taking a perils, choose your picks wisely or deal with anything that in route to deal with him before it gets there and your golden. With his 12 movement, he can out run mostly anything. But he shouldn't have to. Give him a FnP bubble and go on about it, thats the best we can do for him.

And don't forget, that FnP bubble can give him a chance to save a perils wound or two

No saves of any kind are allowed against perils. Core rule book.

Good thing FNP isn't a save, eh?

Wrongo. FAQ stated a while back that it can resist perils.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Largely because Feel No Pain can be taken against stuff that isn't explicitly Instant Death, and thankfully, that includes Perils.

EDIT: didn't see that rigeld2 beat me to the punch. But yeah, FAQ, lookit up, friends.

So you can FNP perils, but not use a storm shield? That makes no sense, but whatever.

Martel732 wrote:
So you can FNP perils, but not use a storm shield? That makes no sense, but whatever.

That totally makes sense!

"My head is about to explode, let me block it with my shield"

"My head is about to explode, but it's ok, I don't feel pain because I'm too hard"

 Griddlelol wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
So you can FNP perils, but not use a storm shield? That makes no sense, but whatever.

That totally makes sense!

"My head is about to explode, let me block it with my shield"

"My head is about to explode, but it's ok, I don't feel pain because I'm too hard"

Yeah, that's essentially what I was thinking of trying to get across there. It's a bit of a stretch but more credible than being able to also block it with a shield.

The same way a storm shield would save you from dying from a crashing stormraven? Yet, you can't FNP that wound unless you are T6.

In that case there's a number of wreckage coming at you that you can raise the shield against, and feeling no pain, so to speak, won't protect you from getting utterly and unforgivably pulverized.

I think we're also deconstructing too much

I agree. I'm still not sure giving him a 5++ vs perils really improves the situation much.

It's handy, I don't personally use Mephy this edition as I'm actually more into force multipliers than beatsticks, but it has saved my arse a number of times for the fluffy character I made for the army.

So I mean, I don't take advantage of Mephiston's ability to possibly save himself from perils if he is near a Priest but there are good applications that can help and shouldn't necessarily be taken for granted.

Anything to keep the beat stick beating.

Fair enough. Perhaps some Tau for him to munch on? lol

You know, except broadsides, damn 2+ saves. Killable, but a pain in the ass now.

 Carnage43 wrote:

2+ save opponents aren't the issue, as Meph is 2+ as well. The issue is 2+ save opponents with AP2 weapons, and who is that exactly?

Thunderwolf lords with runic armor and a powerfist/thunder-hammer - Wolf claws are more common
Lysander - Rare
Calgar - Almost non-existent
Beliel w/T-hammer/SS - Not super common
Edit: Forgot Ghazghull! - Common in 5th...not sure about 6th though with WAAAGH being nerfed.
...I can't think of anything else off-hand

Eldar -
The one to watch out for is Karandras. 2+ save and 6 attacks base with a powerfist. If someone cast fortune on him, he won't even take a wound in the combat.

PredaKhaine wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:

2+ save opponents aren't the issue, as Meph is 2+ as well. The issue is 2+ save opponents with AP2 weapons, and who is that exactly?

Thunderwolf lords with runic armor and a powerfist/thunder-hammer - Wolf claws are more common
Lysander - Rare
Calgar - Almost non-existent
Beliel w/T-hammer/SS - Not super common
Edit: Forgot Ghazghull! - Common in 5th...not sure about 6th though with WAAAGH being nerfed.
...I can't think of anything else off-hand

Eldar -
The one to watch out for is Karandras. 2+ save and 6 attacks base with a powerfist. If someone cast fortune on him, he won't even take a wound in the combat.

But even then Karandras still needs 4s to wound and if mephy gets iron arm from biomancy then its going to be 5s or 6s for him to wound...

Martel732 wrote:
The same way a storm shield would save you from dying from a crashing stormraven? Yet, you can't FNP that wound unless you are T6.

You're supposed to be using the shield as a skateboard and surfing down with the debris, Legolas-style.

Kandrass needs 2's to wound Mephy, He is str 4 base. So Ironarm will at most mean wounding on 5's, and getting through your armour. So kandrass hits on 3's (4 hits) and wounds on 2's normally, so thats mephy dead in one turn. Im not to familiare it him, but does he have over 4 wounds to spare?

 Carnage43 wrote:

2+ save opponents aren't the issue, as Meph is 2+ as well. The issue is 2+ save opponents with AP2 weapons, and who is that exactly?
Thunderwolf lords with runic armor and a powerfist/thunder-hammer - Wolf claws are more common
Lysander - Rare
Calgar - Almost non-existent
Beliel w/T-hammer/SS - Not super common
Edit: Forgot Ghazghull! - Common in 5th...not sure about 6th though with WAAAGH being nerfed.
...I can't think of anything else off-hand

I think we are going to start seeing more of Beliel with TH/SS

also:
Abbadon
Typhus
Fugien
Drazhar
Warpsmith
Techmarine/MotF with servo harness
any chump now running around in 2+ armor with powerfist+lightning claw(very popular)

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Kandrass needs 2's to wound Mephy, He is str 4 base. So Ironarm will at most mean wounding on 5's, and getting through your armour. So kandrass hits on 3's (4 hits) and wounds on 2's normally, so thats mephy dead in one turn. Im not to familiare it him, but does he have over 4 wounds to spare?

Meph has 5 wounds and WS 7. Is that Eldar WS 8? I haven't looked at the Eldar book in years.

 Exergy wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:

2+ save opponents aren't the issue, as Meph is 2+ as well. The issue is 2+ save opponents with AP2 weapons, and who is that exactly?
Thunderwolf lords with runic armor and a powerfist/thunder-hammer - Wolf claws are more common
Lysander - Rare
Calgar - Almost non-existent
Beliel w/T-hammer/SS - Not super common
Edit: Forgot Ghazghull! - Common in 5th...not sure about 6th though with WAAAGH being nerfed.
...I can't think of anything else off-hand

I think we are going to start seeing more of Beliel with TH/SS

also:
Abbadon
Typhus
Fugien
Drazhar
Warpsmith
Techmarine/MotF with servo harness
any chump now running around in 2+ armor with powerfist+lightning claw(very popular)

Also a Terminator Khorne Lord with the Axe.
And a Shadow Field/Huskblade Archon. Sure, it's tough for him to get it, but it is doable.
Finally, any 2+ save Monstrous Creature.

EDIT: And Jain Zar and Maugan Ra at S6.

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 Brotherjanus wrote:

ALEXisAWESOME 504363 5300952 39192ee63415Zarc3648f30e5e2c1c0971e.jpg wrote:Kandrass needs 2's to wound Mephy, He is str 4 base. So Ironarm will at most mean wounding on 5's, and getting through your armour. So kandrass hits on 3's (4 hits) and wounds on 2's normally, so thats mephy dead in one turn. Im not to familiare it him, but does he have over 4 wounds to spare?

Meph has 5 wounds and WS 7. Is that Eldar WS 8? I haven't looked at the Eldar book in years.

Pheonix Lords are WS 7.

Mephiston is a total chump now for what you pay for him. He no longer provides effective psychic defense, and there are too many other ICs that can give him fits. And he can't be used as a super divination monkey, either. It sucks that he sucks, but he does.