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I ran a wagon list against necrons at 1750pts yesterday and he took a Doomsday Ark (72inch range, str10 ap1 large blast BS4).
That thing single-handedly crippled my army because it shot over my wagons via scatter and took out my trukks that were hiding (i literally rolled 1s every coversave on my vehicles...fml) and destroyed the bigshootas on my wagons w/ deffrollas, immobilized the Tankbusta wagon, and i never even reached it.

I should have taken a pic of the board, but he was sitting in the corner and there were only 2 things on the board that hid me completely, one was a ruined Bastion the other was just a large 13by13 block of foam we use for a cheap mountain. Think of the typical assaulting/defending terrain setup, however we fought on the sides so both deployments were identical.

Was i wrong in going straight at that thing to try and take it out asap, or should i have ran the other side of the table and sat behind that large block of foam?

This was my list: I was intending to see if i could use it to viably use Tankbustas, im not sure if it was my list, my tactic, or that damn ark that stunted my list.


I wasnt intending to win, as i was testing this idea to actually USE tankbustas. Im just trying to figure out if it was my list, my charging that ark instead of hiding on the other side of the map where it couldnt see me (but half his army was also at), or if that ark is just anti-wagon list and really nothin i can do against it with this list.

The best defense against doomsday arks are fast, alpha units that can threaten it. If it moves, it loses almost all of it's effectiveness.

Deffkoptas work wonders for this.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I ran a wagon list against necrons at 1750pts yesterday and he took a Doomsday Ark (72inch range, str10 ap1 large blast BS4).
That thing single-handedly crippled my army because it shot over my wagons via scatter and took out my trukks that were hiding (i literally rolled 1s every coversave on my vehicles...fml) and destroyed the bigshootas on my wagons w/ deffrollas, immobilized the Tankbusta wagon, and i never even reached it.

I should have taken a pic of the board, but he was sitting in the corner and there were only 2 things on the board that hid me completely, one was a ruined Bastion the other was just a large 13by13 block of foam we use for a cheap mountain. Think of the typical assaulting/defending terrain setup, however we fought on the sides so both deployments were identical.

Was i wrong in going straight at that thing to try and take it out asap, or should i have ran the other side of the table and sat behind that large block of foam?

This was my list: I was intending to see if i could use it to viably use Tankbustas, im not sure if it was my list, my tactic, or that damn ark that stunted my list.

Spoiler:

HQ:
KFF Mek w/ CB and PK

Elites:
15 Tankbustas w/ 3 Squigs (no hammers)

Troops:
2x 20 Shoota Boyz w/ 2 Bigshootas, Nob w/ Klaw/BP
2x 12 Shoota Boyz w/ Bigshoota, Nob w/ Klaw/BP - Dedicated Trukk w/ Ram for both

FA:
3x Dakkajets w/ Supa Shoota

Heavy:
2x Battlewagons w/ 1 Bigshoota, Deffrolla
Battlwagon w/ 4 Rokkits, Kannon, Ram

Total: 1749pts

I wasnt intending to win, as i was testing this idea to actually USE tankbustas. Im just trying to figure out if it was my list, my charging that ark instead of hiding on the other side of the map where it couldnt see me (but half his army was also at), or if that ark is just anti-wagon list and really nothin i can do against it with this list.

it is worth noting that it's Str9 AP1, makes a big difference vs AV14.

On top of that if he moves it fires at the weaker profile.

Deffkoptas, dakkajets and lootas for pure ork lists, or russes, vendettas, or broadsides if you want to include allies.

Dakkajets cant hurt the ark its 13 13 11 armor.

Point for point, i think it would have been better to have lootas and deffkoptas rather than dakkajets and tankbustas. Less rokkits, but faster, tougher, and more likely to hit and lootas > dakkajets

Further making me believe tankbustas have no place in the ork lineup. They just always compete with Lootas for the targets/rides/elite slots, or dont do much.

Also don't forget if you pen it even once it becomes AV11 which can be in turn delt with by lootas.

The more I play 6th the more useful a guard platoon loaded up with Lascannons seems for Orks. They can camp out behind the Agies with the Lootas and provide the Long Range Anti-Tank that orks lack.

Hmm, well a buddy of mine has like 40k+ of IG (not...joking...) i could try it out since hes cool with us using his stuff thats in the room.

TBH this is starting to piss me off about 6th Edition. Everyone is taking IG as allies since they stupidly under costed and have many OP units to fill in gaps in there Codexs.

@ OP - You just had bad luck. Crons have very few, I.E 3 long range guns, so changing your list to counter a rarity is a bit silly.

Storm Boyz, outflanking boyz and anything that can get up close and personal will wreak Necrons. They have Av11 on the rear so be sure to bring the Power Clawz.

Just watch out if he brings a couple of Pulseteks and Zahndrekh. Pulseteks keep the lights out for 2 rounds while Zahn gives the ark Night Vision.

30 lootas should be able to glance it to death.

Two squads of MANZ in two truuks will cause all kinds of pain as well.

It should average 27 Lootas firing, or 16 Deffkopta or Rokkit buggy shots to kill it assuming no wrecked or exposes results. Or you could get lucky and pen it right away and it would take less Loota shots. Of course that assumes no cover!

Yeah, that's a tough one. With my bikers he'd get 1-2 turns to fire at maxed spaced out bikes, possibly killing 2 a turn depending on cover saves.

I use Wazz and stick him in a unit of Deffkoptas. Scout plus TB gets him close and he still gets to fire his 4 shots.

Oh and pray to Gork and Mork!

I'd say a five man stormboy unit with zagstruk in reserve should take care of it.

Im a big fan of Biker Warbosses leading Nob Bikers. Kuddos for using a not-so-commonly seen Ork unit. At 1750, it may be wiser to take 5 Deffkoptas (big shootas and 2 BuzzSawz). I like the big shootas for the number of shots and extra range. It will help against Manticores (I see these more than I do Doomsday Arks).

I wanted to use tankbustas because looking at their stats theyre freakin nasty. Its 225pts worth of insanely powerful anti-vehicle or anti-3+ armor units. Rokkits are awesome, its just getting enough of them in a viable list is the problem.

I could do a Zagstrukk attack, even if there isnt a doomsday ark theres probably something else i'd like to have shut up on turn 2 and ol' Zaggy charges with an Init4 powerklaw so even if its not a vehicle i could still lay down the hurt. Expensive, but if it takes out that long-range shotsniping my vehicles im cool with that.

This guy in particular likes wraiths, im not exactly afraid of them since im based on an insane mass of shots which a 3+ invul wont last long to. He only got them in range because i was more worried about that ark than anything else, which i was already gimped by the ark by the time the wraiths got in range anyway.

I'm actually having a hard time in 6th choosing between Lootas, Tank Bustas and Burna Boys for my Elite slots all of the units can bring something good to the table.

The best way I'm finding to deal with Crappy back field things like Ghost Arks ect. is an Allied Manticore. Then once the D3 Strength 10 pie plates take off the Quantum Shielding the Lascannons can pop it. IG are are fantastic army if you need to de-mech someone of give the enemy a good Alpha Stike. Then the Orks can get in and take care of the Infantry. Orks are one of the best Anti-Infantry Armys out there so use there speed and get up hard and fast and smash some stuff.

Snikrot with some kommandos may be your answer as well. The nob with pk and a couple of rockits or even burnas. Of course they would have to survive one turn when they cant charge. Depending on where he is at you may even be able to use the ark as cover, forcing him to move it.

the surviving one turn is the issue with kommandos. Theres almost never viable cover close enough to whatever you want to kill to hide in for that turn of uselessness.
I have been tossing the idea around to include a meganob boss in there though, i'd literally be sending two issues up my opponents butt rather than 1 since thats a situation i'd take Ghazzy over a meganob and Ghazzy himself is freakin nasty with his waagh.

Somethin else you might try would be a big mek with a SAG. Sure it's random str, but its ord. type weapon, so it gets re-rolls on its pen, and The other bonus is that 60" range that can be used to reach out and punch him in the jaw right back. Stick him with some gretchin, even a unit of 10, and he comes prepackaged with a meatshield and he's magically scoring. Drop that in some cover, or on an objective, or on an objective in cover, and you have a winning formula to play the counter-pieplate game. A blitza-bomma might work too, but if it is camped out at the edge of the board, it might be hard to get an an angle off on the ark from which you can drop the bomb and then not run your own ass off the table

Wait wait wait, reroll pen cause its ordnance? ive never seen that rule.

Im not much of a SAG fan unless im camping out because its soooo unreliable and if im charging up the line i need my 2 HQs for something more reliable.

Ah, I just like the SAG because anything that can go horribly right/wrong at any given moment is just so wonderfully orky that the risk is well worth the reward. Plus, i once double 6'd Draigo and his paladin posse, then the next turn the gun blew up in my face and took out half my lootas. I thought that too hilarious to NOT put in my army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Wait wait wait, reroll pen cause its ordnance? ive never seen that rule..

Yup, 6th ed rulebook.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Wait wait wait, reroll pen cause its ordnance? ive never seen that rule.

Im not much of a SAG fan unless im camping out because its soooo unreliable and if im charging up the line i need my 2 HQs for something more reliable.

Yeah, Ord rolls 2d6 take highest on pen IIRC. Makes looted wagons worth looking at too.

.....i dont think ANYONE in my group has been doing that....lol

Ive tried looted wagons i run into the same issue as the SAG - cant hit the broadside of a barn.

 Lobukia wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Wait wait wait, reroll pen cause its ordnance? ive never seen that rule.

Im not much of a SAG fan unless im camping out because its soooo unreliable and if im charging up the line i need my 2 HQs for something more reliable.

Yeah, Ord rolls 2d6 take highest on pen IIRC. Makes looted wagons worth looking at too.

Same thing in 4th and 5th Edition. It's just so odd to see an ordance weapon not on a vehicle or artillery.

That is what makes the Manticore so scary. D3 Strength 10 Pie Plates that can hit you no matter where your hiding on the table.

It worth taking Allied Guard just to get one and a few Lascannons as well. Its pretty much all the Ork Codex is missing.

I find a distraction unit, usually a small unit of nob bikers or deffkoptas outflanking, draws enough fire to give you 1 more turn to get into krumpin range. If you're not in combat with something or close enough to his own units for scatter to threaten them as well by turn 2 you're doing it wrong. Think of them as your pawns and your battlewagons and trukks as bishops and knights. The fact that your Queen (a mega armored warboss) is riding inside your knight or bishop is just plain fun.

i always forget that deffkoptas have outflank. Usually dont need it but sometimes i could, like in this game since that ark was sitting ~50inches from where i deployed.

Out flanking Wazdakka with a biggish squad of deffkoptas has worked for me in my bike army. They roll in shoot the crappa out of some back field camping unit then next turn I split them up and wazzy on anti vehicle duties and the koptas can do whatever. Its a good way to score linebreaker and contest some back field objectives late game.

i could see giving them rokkits in that situation since Wazzy already fires a Str8 weapon. The reason you use bigshootas with a warboss is because Str5 and Str8 dont wanna fire at the same things.

9x S8 Shots with 5 being twin-linked will usually bring down or disable that annoying back field tank even at BS2. Unless it is a Land Raider which will take a bit more of a commitment

Only issue is Outflank has a chance to appear on the wrong side of the board lol. Which i find stupid, if theyre being sent to tactically swoop around something why would they come up the wrong direction?

Deploying on short ends it wouldnt be as bad, 12inch zip should still get you in 24inch range of whatever you wanted dead, playing long-side would kinda ruin that tactic lol.