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I have recently thought of starting a Tomb Kings army, as I have always wanted to play one. I am curious though, how viable are the within 8th edition? How well can they fare against other armies? And what are some of the best tactics and ways to use the army?

Any information and advice would be grand!

I'm no expert but I think they are pretty solid. Their monsters are pretty reasonable and the casket of souls is cool.

You really need magic and they do very well at it with a lot of ways to generate power dice. Having multiple priests will ensure you can use as much PD as possible as you don't want to leave any on the table.

Tomb Guard are good. The vultures and scorpion are pretty good. Buffed by spells their hordes of skeletons can be a pain. Especially when you add a prince/king and make their WS not sucky.

Don't everspend on constructs I think because your means of healing them aren't that great and they don't have a ton of defenses.

Hmm yeah I have seen good things for the Magic, as well as the Tomb Guard and Ushabti.

I don;t know much about tomb kings but I know that virtually all of the older miniwargamming.com fantasy battle reports had tomb kings in them.

I would suggest watching them to try and get a feel for what they are like.

Yeah I have seen a few of those. However they all used different styles, which of course is a good thing, the armies were run different ways. But I am looking into a more solid style with effective units amd strong magic.

All I know about TKs is that the one time I played them they curb stomped me with lots of units of 5 horse archers or 10 archers, then a lvl 4 with some really awesome gear that completely dominated the magic phase.

From what you are describing you want a list that runs princes and/or necrotects in units of tomb guards. These will make up the front with a unit of archers or skeletons behind to be a buncher for one or more mages. Casket is madatory.

Lords:
Lich High priest: A very cheap spellcaster that is very good. Only a couple of other armies can beat us here, usualy as we do not need another lord for leadership. Go big. If you feel like I do go with two level 4'rs to enshure good choises in the magic Phace.

Heroes:
Lich priest: Scrool caddie, not so important.
Tomb Prience: Very good. A complete bargain. TK is all about using things like these to make shure you winn. Very Cheap.
Necrotect: Amasing hatred. Works fine with the prince. Cheap.

Core:
Skeletons: Very cheap for what they do!
Skeletons Archers: Very good vs expensive elves, as a mage bunker and they fight as "decent" as skeletons. No stand and shoot but a good option to rmeove redirectors.
Chariots: Very dangerush and good unit. Can be fielded in a unit of 3, 4, 6, 7 and posible 8. They have no rank bonuses but they are a very good core choise by any book standard. Works fine with Tomb Guard.
Skeleton Horse Archers: Very good redirecters and are anoying.

Special:
Here is your armes bread and butter: You have you choise of one of these 4. The other things here are also cool, but they will not make or break your list:
Necropolis Knights, thet hit like a train! No rank bonus, a tad expsensive and hard to resurect. They are a beast.
Tomb Guards: Wow these are supricingly good. Backed up by magic/prince/necrtotect they will winn the second turn of combat. I cannot recomend them enough and they are exatly what you want in your army from what I have read in your coments.
War Sphinks: Cool, no rank bonus. I dont nderstand how to use them but others have great suckes. (My oponent alwasy have some easy way to kill all of them.)
Ushapti: They cost to mutch but I could supose 4x2 would get any job done. They compete with Tomb Guards.

Rare:
Necrosphix: War Sphinx odd cusin. Can fly witch is nice. Does not breate flames and do not have the killing blow attacks.
Casket: I consider this mandatory. Get it. You will not always cast it's spell but the magic dice are good.
SSC: A nice incentive for your oponent to come to you. A very cheap flaming and magical attack unit.
Magic statue: Can give you even better "big magic phaces".

As for putting your list together make shure you know if you are going to have your oponent a) come to you (with ranged weapons in your list) b) Use magic to go to him (so you can "march") c) Have units with enough movement you do not need magic to march. (Snakes, Chariots, Horses)

While I cannot pin down exatly why it works, tomb kings are awsome when done right.

My sample list is something like:

1 level 4 hierophant
1 level 4 death or light

1 prince
1 necrotect

3 units of 40 archers
2 units of horse archers
1 unit of 6 snake rider
1 unit of tomb guard

1 or 2 ssc
1 casket of souls

Although I have not played fantasy in a while and some of the points are "off". My last project before 6th 40K edition came was getting more TG.

My mages usualy has the "Nehareal scroll if incatation" (TK item) and a worn powerstone (2 ekstra dice) This would give one important magic phase turn 2 or 3 up to 6 ekstra power dice + the casket. Your oponent usualy has enough dispell dice for you to get one or two spell though. With that sett up you can have 3-5 spells depending on what spells you have, what you rolled in the magic phace and what you need that turn. More mages also gives you more options as you want a lott of unit boosts in a turn you are righting a lott and something else in other turns. If you are running 2 units of TG (I recomend this) then light is better then death.

Also, TG winn the second turn of combat but they need backup. Magical resurection work great. The best spells you can get is smite and cursed blades since these can resurect in combat and are cheap (blades especialy can be used as a heal buble when cast in the big version.) The light spells speak for themself. The spells that reduce your oponent though/streangh (necharahl and death) are exelent for you as TG are S/T 4. Do not go overboard on the prince. At 3 wounds and T5 your oponent usualy ignore them since they asume they are loaded up with ward saves. Give him a great weapon or a cheap magical gamblers armour and shield and go to town.

My advice on TK is as follows:

Archers are amazing. Necroknights are the best melee troops in the book. Use them.

I played against a list which was 18 necroknights, a level 4 on light with the earthing rod, the mandatory hierophant, two catapults, a hierotitan, and all the archers the guy could fit in.

It plays quite trickily as if you focus too much on getting one unit of knights there, it won't make it. And if you focus too much on getting them all there, you won't have enough buffs.
But if one unit gets there and the buff goes off, It shreds most things.

Well damn! Thanks for all the advice!

So, seems to me like a high level Liche is best, along with Necropolis knights and some Tomb Guard. As well as of course plenty of archers. I like the sound of all these things!

Now, are regular Skeleton Warriors worth taking? Or rather, just take Archers and fill up the close combat end up with the tough stuff, like the Necropolis Knights and Temple Guard?

Also, I have seen that the Casket of Souls is very good, how worth is it to take? As well as the Ushabti? I love their lore and models, and have seen them be quite effective in some cases.

Mountain-Breaker wrote:


Now, are regular Skeleton Warriors worth taking? Or rather, just take Archers and fill up the close combat end up with the tough stuff, like the Necropolis Knights and Temple Guard?

If you really feel like you need a big block for an anvil then go ahead and take a unit of warriors. If you dont, then get more archers!

Warriors are rubbish...but you use them to get more pressence on the table and dictating the battle more.

Archers are less rubbish, but that they always hit on 5+ and have 24 range can soften up some units (marauders, elvish archers etc.)

Casket is mandatory for the magic dice.

I have 6 of the bow ushapti and I am not impressed. I have heard that 2x4 of the great weapon once are good but I would go with tomb guards instead.

Knights and tempel guards are sweet, but all warmachines are gonne target your knights.

Alright then. So Archers, Tomb Guard, Necropolis Knights, a level 4 Liche and Casket of Soules! Sounds damn fine!

I also wondered about taking Lords for close combat. And I have seen to avoid Chariots and Horsemen? Or just constructs all together.

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
And I have seen to avoid Chariots and Horsemen? Or just constructs all together.

Horsemen yes, they are never good

Chariots can be tricky. A tricked out prince or even a king with a unit can put on the hurt but is also really tasty for cannons. And a full unit with at least 2 ranks will cost a lot, much more that 3-4 knights

Hmm alright then. Well I will stick with Temple Guard and Necropolis Knights and Ushabti with the GW. And fill up on Skeleton Archers for core.

Any advice on ways to buff the Temple Guard, and the speckal units overall, with the Liche?

Not sure I can add much that others haven't already, but...

TK is very synergistic. Each piece of the army adds something to another piece, or the whole army. TK is very reliant on magic for movement and survival, but luckily you don't have to choose because buffing our units regenerates.

Necroknights are awesome, and like has been said, if you take 2 units, you know only one is gonna make it. Since the latest FAQ the odds have increased, but not much.

I do not like Ushabiti

Chariots are not a total avoidance, but they're not as versatile or cheap as necroknights. I love them in groups of 8 or so to smash hordes in the face. Hard.

Archers are hilarious fun. Give 'em an extra shot and let the lulz commence.

I've never used tomb guard. But I use my warriors a lot. HW/Sh or spear/shield with a cheap prince and it's a tarpit that stands a chance of killing things.

I like sword and board warriors with a prince. and necotect, in horde.

I also run death lvl 2 in the same unit. for LD9 spirit leech, and with a lvl 4 nehek I have good odds on getting a -s/t spell so I usually get my full saves on the warriors and the kb spell works awesomely.

So the Skeleton Warriors horde tactic can work, it just seems like its more fragile. Though I have been looking into making a horde style army commanded with a Tomb King and Liche, putting the King with the Tomb Guard.

I don't find it fragile, but don't take on mournfang without them hexed or the 5++ ward. it's about putting the right target into the right stuff.

Mountain-Breaker wrote:Alright then. So Archers, Tomb Guard, Necropolis Knights, a level 4 Liche and Casket of Soules! Sounds damn fine!

I also wondered about taking Lords for close combat. And I have seen to avoid Chariots and Horsemen? Or just constructs all together.

Chariots are fine. Good stats on the charioters. Good many impact hits. Reasanoable costed for 3 chariots or 4 chariors, or 7 chariots (that is 4 in the front rank and 3 behind making it 4d6 impackt hit at S5!)

S5 is the magical number in warhammer fantasy. S4 is OK, S3 is crap. S5 really is the sweetspot.

The "problem" with chariots is that they can easaly be re-directed, the impact hits does not break steadfast and yiou can easaly be surounded. Also they need the charge, but with a +1 in speed standar you will be charging 3d6 (pick the higest) +9 witch is one behind a flying unit so chanches are good you will get the charge. They are best in the flank where they can charge in a 90 degre and eat your oponents army up one by one.

On one side they have the same problem as necro knights: Hit like trucks, little staying power, exspensive, wants the charge, does not like warmachines and no rank bonus. However chariots are core (good!) and they are easier to resurect (very good).

Horses are so and so...I wanne make a list where they work but so far I have not come up with one. They are S4 on the charge and can have a 4+ save and the horse attacks. Easy to resurect. I just belive nobody have had the balls to try them out propperly.

Horse archers are versatile redirecters. They are good.

As for using a lord as a fighter there is very little the king ads that the prince does not already have. An ekstra wound, better weaponskill on "my will be done", better attack and streangh amd a better curse when he does. However he is twice the cost of a prince! And you could also take a prince and a necrotect. Just mean! Some people can make the king work. I am not one of them. I like the magic!

Zygrot24 wrote:
Necroknights are awesome, and like has been said, if you take 2 units, you know only one is gonna make it. Since the latest FAQ the odds have increased, but not much.

What is new since the latest FAQ?

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
So the Skeleton Warriors horde tactic can work, it just seems like its more fragile. Though I have been looking into making a horde style army commanded with a Tomb King and Liche, putting the King with the Tomb Guard.

Skeletal hordes are great vs monsters like the giant etc. Also for tarpitting. However vs other big blocks they are not that good. I once ran 70 skeletons with a king (I had my training wheels on) vs a beastmen and he got in 36 hits with S4 and I lost combat by 20. I had some 10 skeletons left along with the king. Skeletons die easy.

King with tombguard though: I am all for that.

Hmm I see. So it seems that a horde can be good. I know they die left and right but I find a a massive horde of Skeletons to be awesome and the way it should be.

However it seems to me that it would still be good to take the archers everywhere approach, then take Necro Knights and Tomb Guard with a Prince.

I have also been looking into chariots, though they may nlt be quite as good as Necropolis Knights, like has been said, they are good in their own way. And I would love to take a Chariot army to war, though it seems that it can be sort of a hit or miss. Like, if they were to charge a unit and not cause enough damage that it could backfire. Though, I cant see 5-7 Chariots not doing enough, especially with buffs and rules and the like..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I definitely agree that it is about putting the right things in the right spot, though it may be like that with all armies, it seems even more so with Tomb Kings and alike armies.

 Niiai wrote:
What is new since the latest FAQ?

You can choose -not- to Entomb things beneath the sands. It wasn't explicitly stated before that I know of.

Zygrot24, it was the sempulca stalkers that had to start entombed beneth the sand, not the necropolis knights. You could buy the upgrade but nobody ever did. Snakes kicked ass from before.

Mountain breaker the chariots will do plenty of damadge the turn they charge. That is not the thing that will backfire. The problem is that as long as they are steadfast (have more then 2 complete ranks) you will not break them. They will become redundant after turn 1. What other armies use chariots for is to get impact hits and have enough bodies to win combat and break steadfast.

Just remember that Tomb Kings cannot march, so maximum fly move is a maximum 10 inches.... which makes the necrosphinx much weaker than he first appears.

Just fly 10" and then land next to the hierophant and you can fly another 10". The necrosphinx is cool to watch how your oponents react to it. ^_^ Heroic killingblow ftw!

I do not reccomend Ushabti. They are woefully overpriced and underpowered. They lack the killing power that MI normally bring while being too expensive and fragile.

Take Snakes instead.

I read through this entire list, and I have to wonder...how has nobody recommended Sepulchral Stalkers? They're practically a must. Here's why: Dwarves, Lizardmen, Warriors of Chaos Hellcannons & trolls, Orcs and Undead. What do they have in common? Low initiative. Stalkers can pop up behind and obliterate low initiative models. They aren't perfect for every game, but they deal with low initiative guys VERY well. They are also S4 with halberds and T4, so they can handle artillery and small units with ease too. The fact that they can be entombed means you'll get near your target quickly.

And I totally agree about the Necro Knights-another must. They hit hard and when used correctly break things. Badly.

Tomb guard are great, especially with the Necrotech special character and a King (WS6? Yes please)

Skeleton warriors are also great-less than 5ppm with a Prince thrown in? They cost less than a 3rd of a chaos warrior, before a prince, and when that guy gets added, they have equal WS to a chaos warrior. Awesome.

And at least 1 unit of chariots, preferably with a flame banner, should be on the field, going after a big, regenerating gribbly. Abombs, trolls, and other obnoxious regeners will (should) run in fear of these guys.

Lastly, stay away from the Sphinxes: they look cool, but are slow, point heavy, and you have better options. Hope this helps.

Guess I misunderstood the implications of that addition to the FaQ.

I'm tempted to try stalkers now, actually. I tend to see a lot of goblins, dwarves and WoC.

Stalkers are OK. In my experience they are better on paper then in realaty. Good for popping up and killing a unit, but they will not win you the game.

Sphinxes are very good. Especialy the battlekitty who comes with attacks, thunderstomp, fire breath and 4 dudes with killingblow on top. Those dudes are S5 on the charge. The problem being that they will attrackt a lott of warmachine fire. Also, most armies have some way to deal with his thoughnes.

I find the warsphinx's to be very effective as well, they combinded with a chariot charge to the flank is a lot of fun.

 Niiai wrote:
Stalkers are OK. In my experience they are better on paper then in realaty. Good for popping up and killing a unit, but they will not win you the game.

I...um...what? No. Ow. My brain.


Nothing in the army will win you the game by itself. But they will ruin the day of a low initiative army/unit. Pick your targets.

 Niiai wrote:
Sphinxes are very good. Especialy the battlekitty who comes with attacks, thunderstomp, fire breath and 4 dudes with killingblow on top. Those dudes are S5 on the charge. The problem being that they will attrackt a lott of warmachine fire. Also, most armies have some way to deal with his thoughnes.

And the Sphinxes are bad-slow as crap, your opponent should be able to out-maneuver them with any cavalry. Only thing they have going for them is the T8.