Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

heartslove wrote:
I feild typhus with terminators and it dose very well taking out squads of space marines before they go down, so i recomend typhus and he makes cultists zombies, i know they werent in your list but it could come in handy if you get them. I think you should drop the spawn ive never seen them do much so i think they are a waste of points.

Chaos Spawn are great this edition, Nurgle Spawn even more so because they move like Bikes and can't be Instant Death'd by anything that doesn't specifically have the Instant Death USR.

heartslove wrote:
I feild typhus with terminators and it dose very well taking out squads of space marines before they go down, so i recomend typhus and he makes cultists zombies, i know they werent in your list but it could come in handy if you get them. I think you should drop the spawn ive never seen them do much so i think they are a waste of points.

I agree that Typhus and Plague Zombies are pretty awesome. The only problem I had with them is that they very much left me feeling like I was lacking firepower due to not being able to carry guns. Very durable but not very agressive. They are a good unit but for sure don't fit my play style.

As for the Spawn you must be thinking of 5th edition. In 5th they were by far the worst and most useless unit in the codex.
In 6th however they are one of the top units in the codex. They move fast (beasts), they have 3 wounds, S5/T5 out of the box, MON bumps them to T6. On the charge they get D6+2 attacks so in a unit of 5 we are talking 15-40 S5 swings. You can't tell me that's not scary! Sure they don't have an armor save all the time but @ T6 and W3 they are still not easy to put down!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SkinCarver wrote:

heartslove wrote:
I feild typhus with terminators and it dose very well taking out squads of space marines before they go down, so i recomend typhus and he makes cultists zombies, i know they werent in your list but it could come in handy if you get them. I think you should drop the spawn ive never seen them do much so i think they are a waste of points.

Chaos Spawn are great this edition, Nurgle Spawn even more so because they move like Bikes and can't be Instant Death'd by anything that doesn't specifically have the Instant Death USR.

or right and this

if 21 troop power armor footslogging army can hold any troop beyond 3rd turn, I'm absolutely amazed what has competitive play turn'd in to.

What I'm saying it's just impossible to win any proper list with this in any scenario expect it may have slim chances in Purge the alien. At least in my meta, my friend would laugh at my face and empty his 20 missiles and tons of other shooting to my army or other friend with 30 lootas and 130 horde of orks.. heck I wouldn't even play that game. You don't have guns either bodies to fight proper game in 1850 points which is really some kind of competitive.

It's a fun list, but word competitive made my brains click off.

Ranumo wrote:
if 21 troop power armor footslogging army can hold any troop beyond 3rd turn, I'm absolutely amazed what has competitive play turn'd in to.

What I'm saying it's just impossible to win any proper list with this in any scenario expect it may have slim chances in Purge the alien. At least in my meta, my friend would laugh at my face and empty his 20 missiles and tons of other shooting to my army or other friend with 30 lootas and 130 horde of orks.. heck I wouldn't even play that game. You don't have guns either bodies to fight proper game in 1850 points which is really some kind of competitive.

It's a fun list, but word competitive made my brains click off.

I've played simmilar lists to this against both of those options and done well. Yes I realize that it suffers a little im mobility but it's not just 21 power armour troops, it's 21 T5 FNP troops that you probably wont be shooting at because if you do you are going to have 2 groups of Spawn and lords in your face turn 2. Just sayin.

If you have a better idea for a competetive CSM list by all means post it up, i willing to try anything. I own every chaos model there is and have tried 25-30 completely different builds in 6th.
Nurgle footslog is by far the most competetive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ranumo wrote:

At least in my meta, my friend would laugh at my face and empty his 20 missiles.

P.S. 20 Krak missles do an ave of 4.63 wounds/ turn against a unit of PM's

I came up with these two lists i really like the huron infiltrate one gives a lot of options and tactical flexibility.

2000 points:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/498742.page

1750 points:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/503323.page

I think both lists are well balanced and will put a lot of pressure on the enemy.

Eager to know what your opinion is.

I don't understand the 10 cultists, I guess as a cheap objective holder but they lack speed and will die if so much as Tac squad breaths in their direction.

 Spartan089 wrote:
I don't understand the 10 cultists, I guess as a cheap objective holder but they lack speed and will die if so much as Tac squad breaths in their direction.

They do 1 of 2 things. get ignored and hold an objective or tie up a unit that is worth on average 3-5 time their cost while being disposed of.

So either useful as a place holder or as misdirection


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Demic25 wrote:
I came up with these two lists i really like the huron infiltrate one gives a lot of options and tactical flexibility.

2000 points:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/498742.page

1750 points:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/503323.page

I think both lists are well balanced and will put a lot of pressure on the enemy.

Eager to know what your opinion is.

Both these lists look pretty decent. Good composition and variety.
They HQ % of your army is a little heavy points wise and you may end up suffering for that against well optimized opponents.

I'm not sure what the stats are now but in 5th 90% of all GT winning lists had 50-54% troops in their composition.

Flyers may also end up being a big problem for you but I really don;t have any great ideas there.

I would also split your zombies into 2 equal groups. 30/10 makes them far less versatile and doesn't force your opponent to make a choice of which unit to go after


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I tried something else out for fun, How does this look?

1850pts

Lord - PF, LC, MON, SOC, Bike, Blight Grenades

Lord - Burning brand, PF, MON, SOC, Bike, Blight Grenades

Plague Marines x6(7) 2x PG, Champ /w Melta Bombs

Plague Marines x6(7) 2x PG, Champ /w Melta Bombs

Plague Marines x6(7) 2x melta, Champ /w Melta Bombs

Heldrake, Baleflamer

Chaos Spawn x5, MON

Chaos Spawn x5, MON

Havoc x6 champ, 4xAutocannon

Havoc x6 champ, 4xAutocannon

Aegis defense line, Quad Gun

gets rid of the cultists and adds a lot more shots. The havocs are unfortunately quite a bit more squishy than Oblitz

Thoughts?

Competitive is a word that can mean different things to different players.

As with the internet and any public domain you will get advice from players of various experience, some clearly do not know what they are talking about and some just seem to post for the hell of it.

One thing to remember as that a list should never be static. It should always look to incoporate change depending on the local meta and changes to it over time.
If something doesn't work, change it and try something new.

An additional thing to remember is that any list will always have hard matchups while still remaining competitive.

Concerning your list, for a staright Nurgle PM list, this is pretty much as competitive as it gets.
Its not rock solid but its hard to shift and your fast slots will cause more problems than most see/feel. I do believe most have yet to experience thr true ability of Nurgle spawn.

So advice is all very much based on experience and you can generally tell from someones post as to whether there advice should be taken on board or not.

I think its time for more games, play those hard matchups, can you eeek out a win? Test, test and test again and make changes to suit.

Very very true.

I almost bought a necron scythe army yesterday just to play against it

If you could suggest a more competetive list by all means please do.
It doesn't have to be nurgle, but I am very interested to see what peoples innovations in 6th are!

The Chaos Dex is awesome.
Most don't see it but the amount of options allow you to build a list to suit any change in meta to be competivie no matter which way things swing. To me that is a good dex.

This is what I'm currently testing:

Tyhpus
Zombies x31
Zombies x31
Zombies x31

3 Helldrake/Baleflamer

3 Oblit MoN (Typhus here).

Aegis/Coms Relay

Allies
CCS, Meltax3
10 Vets
x2 Vendetta

Do I think this is competiive?
Yes, although it will have hard matchups like wraith spam and daemons although you could expect it to walk over most lists.
Do I think its the best build out there?
No, I think its one of the better ones and I think to be competivie 3 helldrakes is a good way to go.
Although there are other options with other allies which are just as powerful or more so.

Do I need Tyohus and Zombies, the same results could be achieved with a Big Mek with KFF and lots of shooty boys would probably be a better way to go.
For that I lose the Detta's and the defence i wanted to ensure my drakes stick around for as long as possible.
I'm still in a testing phase, after all the Dex is still relativley new.

Your new list looks very solid.

As usual, there are a few counters that it has to deal with, but 40k, has turned into a game of rock-sissors-paper-lizard-spock. Sometimes you just meet the army that will tear it up.

Can we see a Bat Rep for this list? This list seems solid and I'd really be interesting to see how it does? Please

 L0rdF1end wrote:
The Chaos Dex is awesome.
Most don't see it but the amount of options allow you to build a list to suit any change in meta to be competivie no matter which way things swing. To me that is a good dex.

Agreed.

The Chaos Dex is extremely good. Its got some very fun and very decent builds there.

Agreed labmouse.

Daemons and Wraith spam is hard to deal with, as is a good Ork list.

I do wish I had more time to playtest, my reliance is based on the playtesting i've had time to do so far and more going forward.
I like to play strong players so I can learn from my mistakes and adapt list to suit.
Otherwise I listen to a few podcasts which help me to understand the developing meta as I do not have the time to attend multiple tournaments a year.

I never expect myself to be within the top tables but it's nice to feel you could come close to the top. I need to be realistic considering the amount of time I make/have available to test and play.

When it comes to the actual game I tend to make many mistakes based on inexperince even with a strong list.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
The Chaos Dex is awesome.
Most don't see it but the amount of options allow you to build a list to suit any change in meta to be competivie no matter which way things swing. To me that is a good dex.

This is what I'm currently testing:

Tyhpus
Zombies x31
Zombies x31
Zombies x31

3 Helldrake/Baleflamer

3 Oblit MoN (Typhus here).

Aegis/Coms Relay

Allies
CCS, Meltax3
10 Vets
x2 Vendetta

Do I think this is competiive?
Yes, although it will have hard matchups like wraith spam and daemons although you could expect it to walk over most lists.
Do I think its the best build out there?
No, I think its one of the better ones and I think to be competivie 3 helldrakes is a good way to go.
Although there are other options with other allies which are just as powerful or more so.

Do I need Tyohus and Zombies, the same results could be achieved with a Big Mek with KFF and lots of shooty boys would probably be a better way to go.
For that I lose the Detta's and the defence i wanted to ensure my drakes stick around for as long as possible.
I'm still in a testing phase, after all the Dex is still relativley new.

I really like this list and will have to ry it after I try my Nurgle Footslog. It looks far more like the high end competetive meta and I even own all of the allied models

We've def had a great discussion here and some Bat reps will have to follow it up for sure! I will be play testing this week when I am back home from work.

"and some Bat reps will have to follow it up for sure! I will be play testing this week when I am back home from work."

Good!

 L0rdF1end wrote:
I like to play strong players so I can learn from my mistakes and adapt list to suit.

I found that I've been very "lucky" in the past two years. I moved to an area of New England where the skillset of the local players is insanely high. I have people like Alex Fennel and Mannahnin attending my local events. These are extremely skilled players who play on the national/international circuit who happen to be based out of this area.

I use quotes around the "lucky" because I used to clean house at the local tourneys. I thought of myself as a good player. Now I find myself in the middle of the pack at my FLGS. Sure, I can show up on a Friday night and beat the tar out of someone, but on tourney days I get my arse handed to me often. On the plus side, since moving to New England the quality of my game has increased by leaps and bounds.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Otherwise I listen to a few podcasts which help me to understand the developing meta as I do not have the time to attend multiple tournaments a year.

I listen to the 11th company. I've met Neil and played him (listen to his BFS 2012 podcast, he talked about our game), and hes a great guy.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
When it comes to the actual game I tend to make many mistakes based on inexperince even with a strong list.

I'm always learning. Every time I lose I think about how I could have won, and what I did wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is the list I'm planning on trying out this weekend.

Abbadon

10 Chosen 2 flamers, 2 PGs, 1 autocannon, MoN, rhino
10 Chosen 2 flamers, 2 PGs, 1 autocannon, MoN, rhino
10 Chosen 2 flamers, 1 PG, 1 MG, 1 autocannon, MoN, rhino
15 Chaos Cultists

HellDrake
HellDrake

Predator AC/LC sponsons
Predator AC/LC sponsons

Aegis line w/CommRelay

My current plan is to take advantage of the fact that chosen can bring 4 special weapons + 1 heavy weapon to a squad.

I'm going to try using them as well geared TAC marines. My plan is to give them a weapons compliment that makes them versatile while still being affordable. This is what I am looking at for each squad, and why...

PGs : These are extremely good near Abbadon -- and in a meta of high MEQ they are extremely useful.
MG : This can be useful for when someone drops in a dread or other heavy armor target. Less critical today
Flamers : Cheap at 5 points, and help with anti-hoard, as well as provide a little extra overwatch.
Autocannon : Cheap at 10 points. Easy way to add some anti-infantry to the squad.
MoN : Increase the squads RPP to bolters by 30% while decreasing vs PGs/ACs by 15%. Worth the trade.
Rhino : Increased mobility to get to where they need to go.

Using this format, I plan on using them as objective campers going for mid-board control. The idea is to keep one model from each squad with 12" of Abbadon + cultists to give them the perferred enemy. That should give me about a 3" radius I can exibit control.

The helldrakes + predators are there to do the heavy lifting. The predators job is to crack open the candy-coated shells, and the helldrakes are to eat the contents.

"Old Man Abbadon" is there to say 'Get off my lawn!" His job is to be a counter-assault element for the army. When a squad of MANZ + warboss comes into my face, or a squad of wolf calvary rush at me, Abbadon's job is to lay the smack down and make them get out of my zone of control.

haha yes, time is very short in my corner aswell because I work away from home a lot!

Talking to Mannahnin on a regular basis on this forum has been invaluble to me as far as understandign the overall meta! But that's what this is supposed to be all about right?

I typically don;t have the patiernce for podcasts by gamers because their quality varies immensly but if you guys could suggest a good one please, by all means let me know!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is the list I'm planning on trying out this weekend.

Abbadon

10 Chosen 2 flamers, 2 PGs, 1 autocannon, MoN, rhino
10 Chosen 2 flamers, 2 PGs, 1 autocannon, MoN, rhino
10 Chosen 2 flamers, 1 PG, 1 MG, 1 autocannon, MoN, rhino
15 Chaos Cultists

HellDrake
HellDrake

Predator AC/LC sponsons
Predator AC/LC sponsons

Aegis line w/CommRelay


I'm a little torn over this list.
I have tried simillar lists several times and have typically found that I suffer from having too few wounds on the table.

How i find it usually plays out is this:

1st turn, I loose 2 rhino's and take some hull points on either the 3rd rhino or one of the preds.
This leaves me with 2 squads footslogging and vulnerable.

Turn 2, with a comms relay at least 1 of the Heldrakes is almost guaranteed to come in. time to get a foot up on things.
more than likely th 3rd rhino will go down this turn as well and depending on what they have for artillery either one of the preds or one of your squads is going to see some heavy fire.

Turn 3, 1 of 2 things will happen depending on how your and your opponents second turn went.
1, they will substantially wipe out 2/3 of your squads leaving Abby to run through the field with a big pitchfork (which he is of course great at but he never lasts forever)

Usually at this point in the game I'm either far behind or ready to throw in the towel.
The comms relay may very well be the saving grace but I feel figuring out a few more wounds to put in the table could be very benificial.

 logg_frogg wrote:
Talking to Mannahnin on a regular basis on this forum has been invaluble to me as far as understandign the overall meta! But that's what this is supposed to be all about right?

Hes a great guy to hang out with in person as well.

 logg_frogg wrote:
I typically don;t have the patiernce for podcasts by gamers because their quality varies immensly but if you guys could suggest a good one please, by all means let me know!

http://www.tangtwo.com/11thcompany/

These guys are awesome for getting you in touch with the current game situation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 logg_frogg wrote:
Usually at this point in the game I'm either far behind or ready to throw in the towel.
The comms relay may very well be the saving grace but I feel figuring out a few more wounds to put in the table could be very benificial.

You don't just need more wounds. You need Resilience-Per-Point!.

A good way to balance the durability of a unit is to compare its ability to absorb on a point-by-point basis. This is called resilience-per-point.
In other words, if 20 bolter shots will kill 1 plague marine, but kill 6.6 orks. A total of 24 points of PM will die, yet 39.6 points of orks will die from the same firepower. This means the resilience per point of the plague marines are actually much higher than orks when taking bolter fire.

I talked about this on my blog here...
http://www.simhammer.com

The key takeaway here is this. Parking 10 PMs onto an objective is just as durable to bolters as parking 32 grey hunters! Their nearly invulnerable to bolter fire.
MoN does close to the same thing.

My problem is that in my local meta I'm facing guys with lists that include the following
* 18 Wraiths
* Eldar/Dark Eldar Beast Pack of Cheese
* Ghaz + Warboss + 8 MANZ
* Wolf lords on thunderwolves
So if I don't have a model that can say "Get off my lawn!", I have been getting curb stomped. I need something that can give me the edge. That's what started the whole "Abbadon will take your lunch money thread". I was looking at what makes an IC do that job well.
http://www.simhammer.com/node/6

In my experience and mathhammering, this breaks down to two CSM ICs. Abbadon or Typhus. Both have the tools required. Typhus risks ID and has a very lame warlord trait. Abbadon is awesome but I'm having a hard time fitting him into PMs. That's why I'm trying Chosen for a week or two. If I can't get them to work Ill go back to PMs.

I second the 11th company. One of the best podcasts out there.

I also listen to 40kuk as the meta can be different based on tournament style. In the UK we tend to play more closer to the book missions other than relic with some slight tweaking.

Where as, as much as I can make out the U.S tends to lean more towards a Nova table quarters style but that seems to vary also.

 logg_frogg wrote:
1st turn, I loose 2 rhino's and take some hull points on either the 3rd rhino or one of the preds.
This leaves me with 2 squads footslogging and vulnerable.

Are you putting the rhinos behind the aegis? You know they get a 4++ cover save there, right?
What kind of armies are you usually facing? Where I am playing, I almost never run across the armies that can shoot down 2.5 rhinos + predator when they are getting a 4++ save. To do that takes a tremendous amount of firepower.

It sounds like your seeing a lot of leafblower lists where your at. Are you seeing IG lists with triple manticores and triple vendettas?

 labmouse42 wrote:


You don't just need more wounds. You need Resilience-Per-Point!.

A good way to balance the durability of a unit is to compare its ability to absorb on a point-by-point basis. This is called resilience-per-point.
In other words, if 20 bolter shots will kill 1 plague marine, but kill 6.6 orks. A total of 24 points of PM will die, yet 39.6 points of orks will die from the same firepower. This means the resilience per point of the plague marines are actually much higher than orks when taking bolter fire.

I talked about this on my blog here...
http://www.simhammer.com

The key takeaway here is this. Parking 10 PMs onto an objective is just as durable to bolters as parking 32 grey hunters! Their nearly invulnerable to bolter fire.
MoN does close to the same thing.

My problem is that in my local meta I'm facing guys with lists that include the following
* 18 Wraiths
* Eldar/Dark Eldar Beast Pack of Cheese
* Ghaz + Warboss + 8 MANZ
* Wolf lords on thunderwolves
So if I don't have a model that can say "Get off my lawn!", I have been getting curb stomped. I need something that can give me the edge. That's what started the whole "Abbadon will take your lunch money thread". I was looking at what makes an IC do that job well.
http://www.simhammer.com/node/6

In my experience and mathhammering, this breaks down to two CSM ICs. Abbadon or Typhus. Both have the tools required. Typhus risks ID and has a very lame warlord trait. Abbadon is awesome but I'm having a hard time fitting him into PMs. That's why I'm trying Chosen for a week or two. If I can't get them to work Ill go back to PMs.

I copletely understand the concept of Resilience Per-point but have never known what to call it when explaining it to people

I guess what I meant to say was " I believe that even with the MON your resilience per point is a little low without having FNP like PM's"
I am however interested to se ehow this works out regardless as I have drawn up a couple very simmilar lists but have not played them

I agree 100% that nothing really says "get right the heck off my lawn* Like parking Abby out there. With the new Power Weapon Mechanics being AP3 he is a huuuuge force that is seldom reconed with.
I have been hugely successful with him but have found that his heavy points cost and lack of mobility outside of deepstriking have made his uses a littl emore limited.
I will have to try and fit him into a list again for sure.

I ran one list a while back with Abby and Typhus at 1850 and tabled my opponent in 4 turns. It did however have some pretty big holes that needed filling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 labmouse42 wrote:

 logg_frogg wrote:
1st turn, I loose 2 rhino's and take some hull points on either the 3rd rhino or one of the preds.
This leaves me with 2 squads footslogging and vulnerable.

Are you putting the rhinos behind the aegis? You know they get a 4++ cover save there, right?
What kind of armies are you usually facing? Where I am playing, I almost never run across the armies that can shoot down 2.5 rhinos + predator when they are getting a 4++ save. To do that takes a tremendous amount of firepower.

It sounds like your seeing a lot of leafblower lists where your at. Are you seeing IG lists with triple manticores and triple vendettas?

One of my most common opponents is my Brother. He plays a few very tight Ork lists that consist of some combination of the following:

Thrakka /w nobz/Painboy in BW
Warboss /w nobz/painboy in BW
Shoota boys /w Pain boy in BW
15 lootas behind aegis def
full squad of grots manning a Quad gun behind the aegis
and then whatever fills in the gap.

He has beaten me the last 13 games in a row to varying degrees.
Mind you I have been trying all sorts of silly thinsg to see what works and what doesn't but I have playe d afew games where I have felt completely outclassed



Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, There is a lot of leafblower in my meta

 logg_frogg wrote:
I copletely understand the concept of Resilience Per-point but have never known what to call it when explaining it to people

I'm planning on writing up articles on Firepower-per-point and Assault-per-point as well. I just need to figure out forumla's that properly define the results. Eventually I plan on having a list of numbers to assign to each unit, so you can simply look and see if that unit matches up.

 logg_frogg wrote:
Thrakka /w nobz/Painboy in BW
Warboss /w nobz/painboy in BW
Shoota boys /w Pain boy in BW
15 lootas behind aegis def
full squad of grots manning a Quad gun behind the aegis
and then whatever fills in the gap.

My friend plays a list kind of like this. I beat him about 50% of the time with my PMs, sometimes its missions dependent.
At least your brother is not fielding 10 man lootas. Those things can go to ground, unlike the fearless lootas for a 2+ cover save. Snap firing does not hurt orks as badly.
I normally face Ghaz + 4 MANZ in a truuk, and a warboss with 4 more MANZ in another truuk. He parks the tucks behind LOS terrain for one turn, then rushes them into your face on turn 2. That sucks badly because its hard to 'stun' the units inside. Usually the truuck wrecks and rolls on the ramshackle table, which means the models just get out and get ready to assault you.

Ghaz is a beast. Abbadon can take him, but you need to have burned one round of his Waaaagh. Otherwise, its a question of how many squads a turn can Ghaz eat through?

What are his nobs equipped with? I ask because normally orks just bounce off PMs. Even nobs have a hard time cracking that nut unless their loaded down with PKs.
How is he getting a pain boy in with normal shoota boys? That's not possible.

If you want to see your brother cry, bring Epdiemius and 5 plague bearers. Deep strike him behind a unit so he cant be seen. Run him into a bastion on the following turn, or just hide him in LOS blocking ruins. I don't play that against my ork friend any more. Simply put, the orks give up to many wounds letting the tally increase. When the tally hits 20, a squad of PMs will eat Ghaz for breakfast. Once your plague knives start ignoring armor, its GG on the orks. When your having a 3++ FNP, normal nobs PKs bounce too....

 labmouse42 wrote:

 logg_frogg wrote:
I copletely understand the concept of Resilience Per-point but have never known what to call it when explaining it to people

I'm planning on writing up articles on Firepower-per-point and Assault-per-point as well. I just need to figure out forumla's that properly define the results. Eventually I plan on having a list of numbers to assign to each unit, so you can simply look and see if that unit matches up.

 logg_frogg wrote:
Thrakka /w nobz/Painboy in BW
Warboss /w nobz/painboy in BW
Shoota boys /w Pain boy in BW
15 lootas behind aegis def
full squad of grots manning a Quad gun behind the aegis
and then whatever fills in the gap.

My friend plays a list kind of like this. I beat him about 50% of the time with my PMs, sometimes its missions dependent.
At least your brother is not fielding 10 man lootas. Those things can go to ground, unlike the fearless lootas for a 2+ cover save. Snap firing does not hurt orks as badly.
I normally face Ghaz + 4 MANZ in a truuk, and a warboss with 4 more MANZ in another truuk. He parks the tucks behind LOS terrain for one turn, then rushes them into your face on turn 2. That sucks badly because its hard to 'stun' the units inside. Usually the truuck wrecks and rolls on the ramshackle table, which means the models just get out and get ready to assault you.

Ghaz is a beast. Abbadon can take him, but you need to have burned one round of his Waaaagh. Otherwise, its a question of how many squads a turn can Ghaz eat through?

What are his nobs equipped with? I ask because normally orks just bounce off PMs. Even nobs have a hard time cracking that nut unless their loaded down with PKs.
How is he getting a pain boy in with normal shoota boys? That's not possible.

If you want to see your brother cry, bring Epdiemius and 5 plague bearers. Deep strike him behind a unit so he cant be seen. Run him into a bastion on the following turn, or just hide him in LOS blocking ruins. I don't play that against my ork friend any more. Simply put, the orks give up to many wounds letting the tally increase. When the tally hits 20, a squad of PMs will eat Ghaz for breakfast. Once your plague knives start ignoring armor, its GG on the orks. When your having a 3++ FNP, normal nobs PKs bounce too....

My bad on the Painboy/w the boy's I questioned that when I typed it >.<

He field Nobz mixed. Usually squads in the 8-10 range. combo of choppas, big choppas, usually 3-4 PK's and sometimes some burna mixed in. I'd have to grab one of his lists to see exactly what the mix is.
He has spent quite a while getting the balance right so that they can deal with pretty much anything.

A huge group of Shoota Boys in a BW is extreamly hard to deal with. 14 FA and open top = rape >.<

Trukk's are far less uselful in 6th than they were in 5th