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Man people saying to other people to not back it...

This really is turning into GoA, with actual miniatures

And a successful funding

It really doesn't matter what you think, excluding a country of origin from a stretch goal perk no matter how much they have invested is not a smart idea. Personally if I was running a project I would offer near enough worldwide free shipping and cost that into the kick starter pledges games and gear brushes have managed it to brilliant effect for such a small project. Excluding nations Will Piss people off, I was a huge fan of mc past and present until today when I quite politely pointed out the potential discrimination and was politely told by prodos to fxxk off lol. He felt a little differently when I was defending the project to warboss and others and check my previous posts. Think. I was even described as a sock puppet lol.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
It's a neurolash, a torture device and weapon favoured by the Order of Fear, one of the Templar orders of Bauhaus. It actually ignores armour (according to the RPG) and attacks the nervous system directly. Nasty little piece of work.

Ah thanks. I think it might be a good idea to include a variant hand option that is a little less dom similar to how the IG Cadian command squad can be built with or without a pimp cane. Nice model otherwise though.

You are correct, it was not a smart idea, for exactly this reason. There are obviously no bad intentions behind it (and I think you are reading too much "f!ck off" where I see none btw), but they should have seen this coming regardless. Backer animosity is not preferrable in a kickstarter, methinks.

If I am allowed in all 3 mentions of the 50k stretch goal, it never says free figure is part of it, when they say in the update 7 "our small compensation fro P&P" I can hardly believe anybody believed non P&P paying customers would be involved to it.

I think Razide level pledge people that pay P&P should be more concerned than you.

phil751 wrote:
Ronin please no offense but giive me one example where that is the case. What US based company has given a freebie to their international customers at the exclusion of their domestic customers. Come on that just does not happen .

Ogre 6th Edition gave out a freebie Pocket Ogre to anyone spending $150 or more on the project. The basic box, for Americans, was $100. Shipping to Canada was set to an additional $50. Under the Kickstarter, I qualified for the freebie, but an American would have to up their pledge another $50 to grab it for free (or pop it on as an add-on). So because I spent money on shipping, I got a "freebie" compared to an American pledger. It slightly subsidized the massive cost of shipping (because Pocket Ogre is tiny) but getting it, on its own, as an add-on was considerably less than $50 (I can't even recall if it was an add-on actually, but it is not a limited run and will probably be dirt cheap when it drops).

So, umm, that's one. May want to hedge your bet an append "often" to the end of your post.

So, can anyone explain to me why Warzone died?
Also, why have I never heard about it, not even once, while growing up and getting into GW games in the mid 90s? I still hadn't heard about it up until a few days ago, when this campaign started.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't living under a rock. I played every sci-fi pc/nintendo game I could as well. Were there some mediocre or crappy games on other consoles?

I'm not saying don't back it I'm simply trying to put pressure on prodos and co to not start messing about adding geographical stretch goals . You can't have the rest of the world getting something that for the want of a better phrase the home country is excluded from. Shipping costs are swings and roundabouts. Factor them in to your costings if necessary but do not exclude one country over another unless they are ridiculously remote with a small return revenue which I'm 99 percent certain is not the case with the UK. My opinion is give them until 12.00 midnight GMT 24.2.2013 and then if nothing has changed and you feel the same as I do you pull your pledge until this particular. Issue is resolved to the satisfaction of the community that feels that the current system of perks is not fair. I realise there are many of you don't give a hoot about the UK and believe free postage is all that we should be entitled to .i blame this on the collapse of the empire 200 years ago things would have been very different (joke , just in case ) . But for those of us who share the same land mass (well actually haven't discussed this offline) but am confident they will feel the same and take up the chant global freebies not exclusive freebies. Please someone come up with something catchier than that .nano nano

greywulf wrote:
I played every sci-fi pc/nintendo game I could as well.

Looks like you failed on that!

 kenshin620 wrote:

greywulf wrote:
I played every sci-fi pc/nintendo game I could as well.

Looks like you failed on that!

A huge flop of course, but IMO its actually one of the better Contra clones out there. Hard as hell though. I still play it from time to time.

@ronin

Lol ill give you that one but if you don't mind me saying its pretty obscure I never professed to be expert . But seriously I think most people (certainly not all ) will see the flaw in this marketing .

 kenshin620 wrote:

greywulf wrote:
I played every sci-fi pc/nintendo game I could as well.

Looks like you failed on that!

I read Nintendo Power sporadically and never saw this. It never appeared in any video store in my area either (admittedly rural). I'm watching a youtube video of it and I'm pretty sure I could have enjoyed it for a single weekend. Not much more though. It does look like a flop.

greywulf wrote:
So, can anyone explain to me why Warzone died?
Also, why have I never heard about it, not even once, while growing up and getting into GW games in the mid 90s? I still hadn't heard about it up until a few days ago, when this campaign started.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't living under a rock. I played every sci-fi pc/nintendo game I could as well. Were there some mediocre or crappy games on other consoles?

Target's demise is convoluted and hard to source exact bits on because it happened in the late 90's and wasn't as well recorded as, say, FASA vs. HG. But from what I can tell from a few Swedish players it was actually an oddity of Sweden's bankruptcy law that killed Target and Heartbreaker the first go around. Target Games parent company was on of those big, multi-faceted corporations that had a hand in a little bit of everything. At some point in time, the parent company began to list and declared bankruptcy. This caused all of the smaller bits to follow suit. Target Games/Heartbreaker was just going through a lot of expansion, and when their well dried up, they couldn't remain solvent and both folded. The only arm of the parent company that survived was their electronic gaming division, Paradox Interactive. Paradox bought up the Warzone/Mutant Chronicles and Chronopia licenses and sort of sat on them for a few years. They became known for their historical simulation games (from their branch known as Paradox Interactive).

Now before folding Target/Heartbreaker were in a great position (as a poster stated earlier, the release of the 2nd Edition Warzone starter box was responsible for the only price reduction GW ever issued), but when their parent company forced a multi-division bankruptcy, they simply couldn't stay alive (they are still a minis-gaming and RPG company after all. What is successful for a tabletop company is laughable to a large corporation).

Eventually one guy got a hold of both Chronopia and Warzone licenses. He founded Excelsior Entertainment and was responsible for Chronopia 2nd Edition and Ultimate Warzone. Unfortunately, being one dude with a bit of fan/community support meant that it was slow going and very little new stuff was produced while they held the license. Around the same time another company (COG?) picked up the Mutant Chronicles license (you see, Mutant Chronicles and Warzone licensing is a tiny bit convoluted with the RPG and wargame being two completely different properties, despite Warzone ostensibly being part of the Mutant Chronicles universe). Where Excelsior was fairly reverent with the license (save for them creating loads of unit profiles to represent every, single miniature ever produced by Heartbreaker... and a few Forge World ones), well COG was not. The guys doing the RPG basically came at it thinking "we like Mutant Chronicles... except for a lot of its background!" and did things like setting the game centuries later and destroying the Cybertronic megacorp (one reason they are in the starting batch methinks).

After a few years of slow, sporadic releases, Paradox didn't allow Excelsior to renew the license and Warzone died again. It would be another several years of delays and lack of progress before COG would also lose the license (which I am very thankful for). With the death of Excelsior, though, a lot of things in the background were also scrapped by Paradox (a movie and an MMO).

But a few more years rolled on and FFG swooped in and picked up the license for Warzone (though they called it Mutant Chronicles). It was a 54mm board game with pre-painted minis (and was almost a CMG as well, but massive backlash killed that plan). The fans of Warzone felt well and truly alienated and there was a lot of bad blood left in the community (which explains a lot of the, erm, heated-nature of this Kickstarter). It also didn't help that FFG's attempt actually sucked as well (it was a terrible, terrible game on its own merits). It had almost nothing in common with MC/WZ and drastically changed the aesthetics (and usually not for the better, which is saying something for Mutant Chronicles in some cases). It died out fairly quickly and FFG dropped it.

At some point in time (I think while the 54mm game was around) the movie was pushed through and, again, bore no resemblance to Mutant Chronicles (outside of character names... the casting for the film was actually pretty good). It was a direct to DVD release and barely registered (save for making a lot of MC/WZ fans angrier).

And so for close to a decade, the one very popular franchise has sat, unloved. Until now!

As for not hearing about it, wasn't that difficult. GW was still the big dog and outside of Warzone, they had very little other competition. So if you LGS was a store that only really stocked GW stuff, then you would never know about it. I was lucky, back in those days my city had three game stores. One was GW-only (but not a GW store), one had a good chunk of FASA and Ral Partha and the last one stocked a lot of Target (still has some of it saddly, along with some of the FFG stuff, I doubt he'll give it a third try).

But despite spotty distribution to some places it managed to be at least equal (though probably greater, considering the market in the late 90's) to Privateer Press in the industry today. So don't feel too bad about not knowing about it. It had more to do with the structure of the industry back then (and the internet not being super-huge yet).

Disclaimer: As I said, a lot of my knowledge of Target's demise is spotty, since I had intermitent net access back then and rarely did the "visiting wargaming sites" and unfortunately, trying to dig the info up today gets you a lot of generalization and conjecture (unlike bigger profile cases like FASA and Harmony Gold). Then again if one is Swedish the information is probably easier to find.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

phil751 wrote:
@ronin

Lol ill give you that one but if you don't mind me saying its pretty obscure I never professed to be expert . But seriously I think most people (certainly not all ) will see the flaw in this marketing .

Obscure? It is one of the biggest board game Kickstarters of all time (can't remember if has finally been kicked out of the top three by the numerous other super-successful ones in 2012). It made nearly $1mil.

I'm trying to understand something with your example, Ronin. Correct me if I am wrong.

Canadians had to pay 50$ of shipping on an order of 100$, thus paying 150$ and got an add-on that was below 50$ in worth. Thus American backers could add that pocket Ogre and, as long as it cost under 50.01$ were still coming out ahead. And that is a bad thing.

I think it comes down to perception, really.

The way I see it is thus, and again feel free to correct me:

I see product X being offered. It will cost [this] to ship

Some people get free shipping (Discrimination by Geography, I tell you!!!)

The people that do not get free shipping, get an add-on for free. The people who get free shipping can still get it, they just have to pay for it.

All in all, the free shipping people still get a better deal in this instance, because the add-on is less costly than shipping.

Now if the resentment of so many KS being based in the USA charged shipping to UK backers and they are bitter about it is an assumption made in previous arguments, then I'd just like to have it stated outright.

@ronin boardgame , not skirmish not medium scale or large scale , just boardgame different animal altogether. As was zombicie, rivet wars etc etc

phil751 wrote:It really doesn't matter what you think, excluding a country of origin from a stretch goal perk no matter how much they have invested is not a smart idea. Personally if I was running a project I would offer near enough worldwide free shipping and cost that into the kick starter pledges games and gear brushes have managed it to brilliant effect for such a small project. Excluding nations Will Piss people off, I was a huge fan of mc past and present until today when I quite politely pointed out the potential discrimination and was politely told by prodos to fxxk off lol. He felt a little differently when I was defending the project to warboss and others and check my previous posts. Think. I was even described as a sock puppet lol.

phil751 wrote:I'm not saying don't back it I'm simply trying to put pressure on prodos and co to not start messing about adding geographical stretch goals . You can't have the rest of the world getting something that for the want of a better phrase the home country is excluded from. Shipping costs are swings and roundabouts. Factor them in to your costings if necessary but do not exclude one country over another unless they are ridiculously remote with a small return revenue which I'm 99 percent certain is not the case with the UK. My opinion is give them until 12.00 midnight GMT 24.2.2013 and then if nothing has changed and you feel the same as I do you pull your pledge until this particular. Issue is resolved to the satisfaction of the community that feels that the current system of perks is not fair. I realise there are many of you don't give a hoot about the UK and believe free postage is all that we should be entitled to .i blame this on the collapse of the empire 200 years ago things would have been very different (joke , just in case ) . But for those of us who share the same land mass (well actually haven't discussed this offline) but am confident they will feel the same and take up the chant global freebies not exclusive freebies. Please someone come up with something catchier than that .nano nano

Games & Gears are selling and shipping brushes not multiple box sets of miniatures and rule books, it isn't a fair or balanced comparison. Suggesting that they cost free shipping for everyone is insane, it would be difficult enough for a project of this size and nature to estimate shipping costs,(Prodos don't know how many boxes of minis they are going to ship out or to where) let alone actually cover those costs without increasing the amount between stretch goals/reducing stretch rewards which would of course lead to more storms in tea cups and whining.

It's such a ridiculous thing to complain about. You haven't lost out or missed anything and you can still get all the exact same stuff for pledging but for cheaper than an international backer because you are in the UK.

But that isn't good enough, it has to be "free".

Even though it costs more ...

EDIT:

In fact I just realized that since you are pledging Brotherhood level if you "paid" the extra £15 that it would cost to ship that pledge level internationally you could get an additional 2 characters and still have a quid left. So lets pretend that £15 is UK shipping and all UK backers get 2 "free" miniatures! HURRAH! Everyone is happy!

No? ... ok then

@Matthieu resentment maybe part of it on my side but I think. It's more to do with parity with the global community. Giving a free model to the whole world apart from the UK just is not cricket (baseball/ice hockey). Etc anywhere rules are observed in effect. Subsidise shipping by a stretch goal by all means but don't give a free mini to one nation and not another.

Over and out

phil

Wow Ronin. Thanks.

I got into minis through friends and a GW store. It was pretty much all I was exposed to. Glad the market has opened up in recent years.

Yeah that's a legitimately interesting post Ronin.

I had wondered why I never heard of Warzone before, especially since I just picked up and finished reading the 2nd ED rule book (anticipation for Resurrection) and it's really quite good, definitely looks like something I'd have liked to give a spin and a better looking game than it's troubled history would have you assume.

It also amused me that a number of things in Warzone have since been added to or are present in other newer games, the parabolic fire rules and diagrams for example are almost exactly the same as the ones in the Infinity rules even though IIRC 10 years passed between them being published.

Hell, well fxxk it then if you really think its ok to discriminate on stretch goals to a geographic region more power to you, not really seeing how that will be beneficial to buyers in the long run though. Good luck with it though because its not an almost certain path to a withering death. I've not always been so peeved at this project if you check earlier pages I was quite disparaging towards people with negative comments on this project which were not at all constructive. So as not to be a bigger hypocrite than I already am, please please do not penalise backers models wise on Where they might be located in the world. over much at least..

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I'm trying to understand something with your example, Ronin. Correct me if I am wrong.

Canadians had to pay 50$ of shipping on an order of 100$, thus paying 150$ and got an add-on that was below 50$ in worth. Thus American backers could add that pocket Ogre and, as long as it cost under 50.01$ were still coming out ahead. And that is a bad thing.

I think it comes down to perception, really.

The way I see it is thus, and again feel free to correct me:

I see product X being offered. It will cost [this] to ship

Some people get free shipping (Discrimination by Geography, I tell you!!!)

The people that do not get free shipping, get an add-on for free. The people who get free shipping can still get it, they just have to pay for it.

All in all, the free shipping people still get a better deal in this instance, because the add-on is less costly than shipping.

Now if the resentment of so many KS being based in the USA charged shipping to UK backers and they are bitter about it is an assumption made in previous arguments, then I'd just like to have it stated outright.

Actually, looking the project over, I can't even find the cost of Pocket Ogre as an add-on. So it was for $150 pledges only. But I agree, either way you slice it, better deal for the backers in the same country. Because for the same cost as an international backer you will still be getting more. In the case of Ogre a US backer at $150 had loads of add-on counter sheets and extra (just like a UK backer will have a whole spare unit box compared to the same level of an international backer). But as a backer at Razide-level who isn't getting a freebie and is still paying £12 for shipping, I am not even slightly peeved by this. Some rewards require minimum backing levels.

That said, as an international backer, this has made me look at my pledge and the value added by upping it to Dark Legion, and I think they managed to just grab an extra £1 out of me when I get home.

I'm currently paying £84+£12+£24 (Razide, shipping and two V-Ranger boxes), so £120. Now that you can swap out starters for an equal amount of add-ons (will have to double check the exact limits of this) I can instead drop £109+£12 = £121 and get:

- Swap the starter for £30 worth of add-ons (so two V-Ranger boxes, and an extra £6 left over)
- An extra character.

Now, a UK player pumping the same amount in is still getting more. But Prodos giving me an option to convert starters to equal amounts of add-ons (good for everyone) and convert part of my shipping in to an actual mini means that they just got a little bit of extra money out of me (and with that extra £6 hanging I might just use that to subsidize a larger purchase that I wouldn't have gone for originally). Honestly, I think that any current Razide-level international backer who has two or more £12 unit boxes as add-ons would be silly not to immediately upgrade to Dark Legion, even if it does cost £1 more than you are likely spending. So I think Prodos actually did a great thing for international backers here.

I'm not a backer at this stage and aren't sure if I will be, so I have no especially strong feelings either way on the "free" miniature. I also don't live in the UK, so in the end it won't effect me at all - outside of how much of a WZ community there might be in a year's time. I do think it would be worth the small production cost for Prodos to keep UK backers onside by including them with the "free" figure. Especially when we're talking about people paying over 100UKP in each instance...

 Ronin_eX wrote:


After a few years of slow, sporadic releases, Paradox didn't allow Excelsior to renew the license and Warzone died again. It would be another several years of delays and lack of progress before COG would also lose the license (which I am very thankful for). With the death of Excelsior, though, a lot of things in the background were also scrapped by Paradox (a movie and an MMO).

But a few more years rolled on and FFG swooped in and picked up the license for Warzone (though they called it Mutant Chronicles). It was a 54mm board game with pre-painted minis (and was almost a CMG as well, but massive backlash killed that plan). The fans of Warzone felt well and truly alienated and there was a lot of bad blood left in the community (which explains a lot of the, erm, heated-nature of this Kickstarter). It also didn't help that FFG's attempt actually sucked as well (it was a terrible, terrible game on its own merits). It had almost nothing in common with MC/WZ and drastically changed the aesthetics (and usually not for the better, which is saying something for Mutant Chronicles in some cases). It died out fairly quickly and FFG dropped it.

As an avid player of the Excelsior version back when they lost the license, the announcement of the FFG version came out either at the same time or actually right before the license was yanked. And while FFG denied that their license had anything to do with Exclesior's (originally it was pitched as a CMG) I have long suspected on the back end that they helped cause the demise of Excelsior.

Ah well I have moved on and had forgiven them for killing my favorite game (& Warzone too!), and now Prodos is giving me something to be excited about. Time to dust off my old MWrealms avatar.

 Azazelx wrote:
I'm not a backer at this stage and aren't sure if I will be, so I have no especially strong feelings either way on the "free" miniature. I also don't live in the UK, so in the end it won't effect me at all - outside of how much of a WZ community there might be in a year's time. I do think it would be worth the small production cost for Prodos to keep UK backers onside by including them with the "free" figure. Especially when we're talking about people paying over 100UKP in each instance...

But then you have international backers complaining about getting less bang for their buck again (you know, the complaints other people were raising about being international backers throughout the last several pages). I don't give a flip one way or the other, people will complain regardless of what Prodos do, I just think some people are being really bloody hyperbolic about the whole thing and need to calm the hell down.

You have people acting (and saying) that this is an affront as great as Prodos on their heads. But either way you split it Prodos are in a bad situation.

People were complaining that international backers were getting charged pretty hard for backing the project (compared to a UK player who could buy a new unit for the cost a high-level international backer pays in shipping). And this is before even getting in to things like whether or not these prices include VAT. Now, personally, as an international backer myself, I was fine subsidizing the project with my shipping contribution. But I'm sure a lot of international backers at the higher level appreciated the nod to their greater expenditure for less products than a UK backer.

Now that they have done something nice for international backers they are weathering complaints (though honestly, it kind of seems like the one guy with a few people saying it isn't great but not equating it to Prodos dropping a deuce on their noggin').

So honestly, I'm glad they are taking a stand. UK players aren't losing out on anything (compared to the same expenditure of money, they are still getting more stuff) and high-level international backers are getting a subsidized shipping cost for pumping as much as they did in to the project when it would have been cheaper for them to wait for release and grab it from online discounters or from their LGS.

Either way, I think it is important to remember this:

A UK backer at DL-level with character added on is paying £116
An international backer at DL-level with the "free" character is paying £121

Who is getting the better deal (in terms of ratio of stuff:cost)?

[slightlyfacetioustongueincheekpisstakeargument]
If people want all backers to be treated equally then why haven't the UK players stepped up to pay postage? It certainly isn't free to ship their packages either (probably cheap, but it all adds up and can still eat in to their funding) but Prodos will eat those costs. Meanwhile it may well cost a bit less than £12 to ship some of the international packages (could also cost more to some locations). This "bonus" is basically Prodos saying "hey, you guys are pumping a good chunk of cash in to this project, perhaps even more than you would need to buying the game through a retail store or online retailer after release. So have a bit of subsidized shipping.
[/slightlyfacetioustongueincheekpisstakeargument]



In the end, I will agree, it isn't 100% ideal for UK backers but then, shipping costs aren't 100% ideal for international backers and those were complained about just as much, if not more than, this issue.

But I really don't care either way. I was pumping £120 (likely more now) in to this project regardless of freebies and bonuses and felt I was getting my money's worth. As a Razide level backer I didn't feel hard done by that my shipping wasn't subsidized (and I haven't seen many people throw a hissy over that either). I just don't see why anyone would complain SO FREAKING HARD about this one little thing. It, just, doesn't, compute! This is a bad hill to die on if I ever saw one.

phil751 wrote:
@Matthieu resentment maybe part of it on my side but I think. It's more to do with parity with the global community. Giving a free model to the whole world apart from the UK just is not cricket (baseball/ice hockey). Etc anywhere rules are observed in effect. Subsidise shipping by a stretch goal by all means but don't give a free mini to one nation and not another.

Over and out

phil

Alright. See, I just wanted to make sure we were all talking with cards on the table. And I am not saying you're wrong about being resentful. Sometimes a situation really is unfair.

As a follow-up, and everyone can chip in on this one:

Would it have seemed better to have them just state flat out that everyone was being charged shipping, which is fair and equitable, and then offer all Dark Legion pledgers a free mini that other backers can purchase?

Would the perception of fairness be better. Regardless of the fact that more KS are coming from the US and that the rest of the world has to pay shipping (not on all of them, I might add. Blackwater Gulch offered free shipping to many different countries).
I'm sure Dakka members from Poland or Japan can chime in and attest to that.

I just don't like the negative vibe the last few pages have had, but I know it can be a bummer to feel cheated. Maybe we can just step aside for a moment and assume a neutral standpoint. Heck, I pay shipping for most of my stuff from KS.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I just don't like the negative vibe the last few pages have had, but I know it can be a bummer to feel cheated. Maybe we can just step aside for a moment and assume a neutral standpoint. Heck, I pay shipping for most of my stuff from KS.

I've got to agree on all points. I'd much rather discuss Warzone and all the awesome stuff than get in to another OT debate about not Warzone. I also agree on shipping, I back a lot of Kickstarters and as a Canadian, the only time I don't pay shipping is when I am going all-digital. Even if there was a 100% Canuck project, they would charge shipping. Damn our country being huge and sparsley populated! So it is kind of nice that at least one KS I back gives me a little something to alleviate always having to figure an extra $20+ of non-product in all of my orders.

But in either case Etoile Mortant! Praetorian Stalkers! Machinators (that don't suck!)! Sacred... erm DOODS!!!

Let's talk about that instead.

When it comes to the Etoile Mortant and their exclusivity I am torn. The all-female ones have been kind of ingrained in to the games collective unconscious, but I do think the 1st Edition fluff is better (seems odd to only train half of your art-capable population). I just have a feeling that if they show up as a co-ed unit then some people will scream bloody murder. Because Warzone/Mutant Chronicles has a variable background that changed quite a bit and everyone has their own favourite. So far they seem to be hewing close to my favourite (MC RPG+1st Edition) with most of their stuff, but it is obvious that 2nd Edition is on the table as well (Vulcan). Either way, I'll be interested to see what they go with and I don't think I will begrudge them either way. If the unit ends up hewing close to the original Mutant Chronicles fluff and it is co-ed, then that is awesome (and should give us lots of conversion bits for females in other squads). If they are all female, then I hope they are all as awesome as Angelika. Either way, I know Prodos will do an awesome job.

Also, I am loving the new machinators and may have to add them on to my pledge if/when £60k hits. Nice to see they are back to being AI/robots again. I'll be interested to see what the AI rules are this time around (I always enjoyed that about Cybertronic and the Syntha). And it also appears they will be a little larger than average as well, if that 3-man squad is anything to go by.

And with the Brotherhood getting a predominantly assault-oriented squad, I have to pray that they have found a way to solve the HtH issues of 2nd Edition and UWZ. Because Warzone is one of those games where smacking someone with a sword should be a workable option. A lot of Mishima (and the Etoile for that matter) will hinge on how they treat assault in this edition.

And only a few more days until the beta rules release! It will be nice to pull my Warzone stuff out of the drawer they're in and have a game or eighty-thousand (approximately) to give them a test.

I am just sticking with MC/WZ-Reboot 2.0

 Ronin_eX wrote:

People were complaining that international backers were getting charged pretty hard for backing the project (compared to a UK player who could buy a new unit for the cost a high-level international backer pays in shipping). And this is before even getting in to things like whether or not these prices include VAT. Now, personally, as an international backer myself, I was fine subsidizing the project with my shipping contribution. But I'm sure a lot of international backers at the higher level appreciated the nod to their greater expenditure for less products than a UK backer.

Yeah, I'm probably closer to one of those. Unfortunately, giving me one 7UKP model to partially offset 12UKP shipping on orders of 110UKP+ for a non-covered pre-order still doesn't beat 10% off RRP and free postage on items in stock and ready to ship. It's a nice enough gesture, but oddly, given all the things about Kickstarters that manage to piss me off, this isn't one of them.

I dunno. I think offsetting the shipping costs with a cheap-to-produce freebie is actually quite a good idea, though I think it would be well done at a lower level, and more universally (ie UK backers as well - keep them happy!) Figures don't cost the same as their RRP to produce after all, so it's a good way to get some good feelings going and get more people onboard...

All this arguing over a free model for those outside the US pledging at the Dark Legion level strikes me as completely pointless.

The way I see it is this. £12 shipping is rather pricy and has been putting some potential backers off (see previous arguments in this very thread) adding a free character to sweeten the deal for those who pledge a significant amount of money is in my opinion a good move. The end result is still that a non UK backer pays more for what they receive but they effectively only pay £5 shipping rather than £12 which seems a lot more reasonable. For a UK backer who wants the same amount of stuff they end up paying £5 less than anyone else.

Lets break it down showing what non UK and UK backers get for their money shall we?

UK backer:
Dark Legion pledge (3 starter boxes + ltd ed rulebook) £109
1 additional character £7
Shipping Free

Total: £116

Non UK backer:
Dark Legion pledge (3 starter boxes + ltd ed rulebook) £109
1 additional character Free
Shipping £12

Total: £121

To me it looks like both get good value for money and it's still cheaper for UK backers!!!!! (five exclamation marks I must be making a serious point )

Anyway enough of this silly bickering over a simple offer to attract more non UK backers. The units at the £60k stretch goal look awesome and have again made my choice of 2nd starter box more difficult. May have to throw yet more money at this to get another couple of units.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
@Count Zero: In the fluff it makes sense that it's only women. They are only recruited because they cannot bear children (social commentary aside) and thus devote their lives to actively defending their Megacorp. It's super regressive and doesn't show the value of women in the workplace... but it is fluffy.

I don't believe I said anything about any all female unit but if you are talking about Étoiles it depends on which fluff you are reading. But I don't fancy "one genderd" units in general since it normally means most grunts will be male except for one unit where everyone is female... I'd like to see more female minis in every unit, but that's a different discussion which you'll have to pm me about if you want to continue it, there is already enough of distracting rants in this thread


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I really hope HMV vill continue to do the rest of the bauhaus! I really like the new look and would like the design to be consistent. And given how awesome Angelika turned out my guess is that the Étoiles would be just as awesome, all female or not!