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 PsychoticStorm wrote:
To be honest I am more relaxed about kickstarters, they have too many moving parts in too much quantity for things to go wrong.

What matters for me is when and how they fix things.

Yes, communication might have been better two weeks ago, but what can you communicate? you must first have a clear picture.

Instead of being passive and wait until the last minute to see if God is going to fix your mess for you at the first evidence of a growing problem with the distribution you start tracking the pledges and see who is going to be left out. And then you mail them that there is a problem with their order. You don't leave them out of the loop wondering what the hell happened and grow angry. You take action first!

And mind you currently I'm out of 300€ but in the long run I can laugh at the loss while PRODOS can't because they pissed the guy (and as far as I know I'm the only one) that was going to promote the fething game in the regions of Kansai and Chubu among his friends for free to the point that he is not interested in playing WZ and probably will used the miniatures as proxies for 40K. Well done PRODOS!

The root of this problem from my PoV is that PRODOS is not big enough to deal with two successful KS and apparently did not bring some part timers, friends, gf or whatever to help moving things along. And instead of going full damage control we have the FB page full with people asking where is my stuff and precious few answers from the company other than the KS update above that can be summed up as "yeah, working on it". Yes, what I said involves having time to do that and a host of other tasks at the same time but again bring people to help for God's shake

I considered jumping in the AvP KS, now I'm real glad that I didn't.

M.

Im with Miguelson. This is BS, and why is there no book and only PDFs? This project only used KS as an additional revenue stream and was not the main financial force behind it, at least according to their initial KS notes so using KS as an excuse doesn't cut it. The book should have been the first thing finished. I cant view the PDF from work and I have no printer at home, now I am supposed to go buy a printer just to play a game I ordered the book for? The more I think of it, the more the add on figure ticks me off, they are adding a fig that likely isn't one of the factions I can use thus is a useless figure. Maybe if its a limited release I can sell it on Ebay. Hell at least give us the option on which figure we want, I would take the one of the Blood Beret characters for when that faction comes out(not holding my breath). Sorry for the rant but I invested a fair bit of money in this and they are treating us like crap. They could easily have used the resources for their silly Aliens game and used them to get this project off the ground before switching directions.

 Miguelsan wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
To be honest I am more relaxed about kickstarters, they have too many moving parts in too much quantity for things to go wrong.

What matters for me is when and how they fix things.

Yes, communication might have been better two weeks ago, but what can you communicate? you must first have a clear picture.

Instead of being passive and wait until the last minute to see if God is going to fix your mess for you at the first evidence of a growing problem with the distribution you start tracking the pledges and see who is going to be left out. And then you mail them that there is a problem with their order. You don't leave them out of the loop wondering what the hell happened and grow angry. You take action first!

Exactly!

Exalted!

It really is not that hard to send out and e-mail/Kickstarter Update.

Obviously no one like handing out bad news, but some communication is better than none.

This does not bode well for their AvP KS...

I completely agree with you Miguelsan. There should have been more communication. From the sounds of things, they didn't even alert people when their orders actually shipped.

It's still pretty annoying that I have yet to receive my stuff. There's absolutely no reason why there's been such a delay on my order. Mine should have been sent out with the initial batch back in, when was that? Late November? I have absolutely nothing in my order that should have delayed it. I had no vehicles or superheavies or anything of that sort. All I had were the two Doom Troopers, the Cybertroic Starter, the Bauhaus Starter, and two Capitol troop sets. I know there were issues getting Bauhaus done in time, but they've been done for a while.

I really hope that they actually increase their communication a bit more with those of us who are still waiting. Shipping notifications and tracking numbers would be nice.

I can understand the frustration, I just feel the reaction is a bit, extreme?

How would you feel if we were at an airport waiting for a company to solve our overbooking problems and then realised that me, that screamed a lot, threatened the poor guys at the counter and stuff like that got my boarding pass and an upgrade to 1st class to boot and you, that trusted the counter guys when they told you to be pacient and took the relaxed path are told that you'll be lucky if you get a seat tomorrow, my shift is over and good luck securing a hotel room?

My reaction is not extreme, so far I've only complained loudly and demanded answers from PRODOS. Feel free to call me extremist when I try to get the European Consumer Centre involved, perhaps PRODOS will find some answers for them then.

M.

PD: We were told that the PDF with the armies would be ready yesterday... I fail to see the update. I know that probably it's because they are in full panic mode but if you say something either deliver it or don't say anything at all.

To be honest I was in this situation this summer and frankly I got a seat, without screaming, without demanding.

If you feel that you must scream loud to get your point across, I feel you are on the spoiled part of the world, don't worry you are in the majority.

Now to be frustrated as I said I understand, to demand communication I understand, I did the same on RH's but to add the threats you did, I would say its a bit extreme.

I'm glad you were lucky. Me on the other hand have been repeatedly at the wrong side of a problem where speaking clamly and politely to the staff got me exactly nothing while the screamers got it if only because the staff wanted to get rid of them. So call me spoiled if you want but I no longer think that using politeness is worthy in a system that rewards demanding in harsh tones over asking.

I would threaten if I really cared about doing extra bussiness with them. Now I want or my miniatures as promised or my full money back and if PRODOS continues refusing to comunicate with me, I'll take it to the people that they might not want to ignore.

M.

Faction PDFs are up on Kickstarter and the public Facebook group. They've also managed to track down about 50% of the packages lost by the sub-contractor. So those will be getting sent back, re-checked and sent off again (with tracking info sent to the folks they are destined for). Here's hoping they can find the other 40 in the next few days and expedite the process instead of having to re-do all of it. A few more folks have already received tracking numbers it seems.

That said, I am at least slightly puzzled by the calls for blood at this point. I mean, 90% of fulfilment has passed, inside the next week or so another 5% will go. Depending on the last 40 packages we may well see fulfilment end early next month. Waiting can be frustrating, but it is weird to act like Prodos aren't doing anything. It isn't like they could handle a shipping snafu while they were off on vacation (and despite what some may think, they are more than allowed to; running a KS isn't a pledge to work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and every single day of the year). They could have told us about the snafu the second they found out, but then it would have been an update without a plan to fix it. They had already set an initial deadline for the 15th, so it makes sense to update us on the situation at that point when they have had time to figure out a general solution.

Because telling folks about a problem prior to a solution being forthcoming tends to make them more pissed off, because then you also look unprepared.

Either way, comparing being stranded in a city due to a flight snafu to not getting a shipment of miniatures exactly when you thought you would get it is a wee bit hyperbolic. Shipping issues are not magically unique to the Warzone KS and they are not the end of the world. Folk over in the Deadzone crowd are still waiting on packages due to various customs issues, for example (and many of us had mispacks that will take months to sort out this time of year). There will always be issues when it comes to quickly trying to work out how to do hundreds of international orders right around the holidays. Even local shipping options become tricky then.

In the end, I don't see why they have reason to lie about a shipping snafu. At least they are giving us reasons for things getting delayed. This isn't Raging Heroes or Robotech where folks receive vague platitudes about the artistic process and the the complexity of the project. If something is behind because the 3D printer went down, Prodos tell us that. If things are behind because there was a flood at their original print shop, Prodos tell us that. If there was an issue with the engineering of a mini and they need to go back to the drawing board, Prodos tell us that. Getting angry at them and accusing them of actually giving us reasons for hold-ups is a sure fire way to tell other KS Creators to just be vague and lie about it in the future lest they be accused of giving "dog ate my homework" excuses. Complex projects come with risks. Equipment can and will go down, sub-contractors can get delays (and will, often), and there will be shipping issues no matter what you do. When something went wrong, they told us why instead of just telling us there would be delays, for reasons. The only other KS I feel I have gotten that kind of forthright information from was the latter half of the Ogre KS (the initial half was kind of low on communication prior to them announcing they were a whole year off the mark).

So they had a shipping problem. You can either believe they're lying and that this is some conspiracy to piss off the last 10% of the backers (which doesn't make any sense). Or you can go with all the preceding evidence that they are being straight with us and believe that there was a shipping issue that has a non-trivial solution.

At this point, I honestly do hope you get your stuff soon. But it may be a good idea to take a step back and calm down a bit. They have been straight with us throughout the rest of the KS. They have always given reasons for delays and made sure to adjust the time line as things happened. They have never shirked from the fact that their initial time line was way too tight and didn't chalk delays up to "their unique non-linear revolutionary project management system that no you can't see" (they even had non-truncated spread sheets!). But in the end, they started getting stuff out, and have continued doing so. I just don't see a reason to believe that they will suddenly stop doing that and I'm glad that when there is an issue they tell us, re-adjust the project time line and offer solutions if it is a problem that has immediate ones.

Best of luck to you, I can commiserate with your frustration, even if I feel it is a bit overblown in regards to the circumstances. Hopefully things work out for you, one way or the other.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
That said, I am at least slightly puzzled by the calls for blood at this point. I mean, 90% of fulfilment has passed, inside the next week or so another 5% will go.

Because we 10% were not part of that 90% fulfillment? Everyone else getting their stuff does not equal fulfillment on our part or make us even remotely happy. This stuff was supposed to be shipped a very long time ago. That and the book is only in PDF and apparently not in book form yet is a further annoyance since I have no printer nor can I use the printers at work since the PDF is blocked. The rules and publications should have been finished a long time ago as well as they are by far the easiest to do. This project was according to early notices not funded by KS but augmented, so once again, using KS as an excuse is a non-starter. Plus those of us who haven't gotten our stuff know that they are wasting resources on the Aliens game which some of us have zero interest and that is taking resources away from the project we are interested. They should never have started a new project when the old project hadn't even gotten out the door.

In addition Warzone has had a very rough run of it. I don't know a single shop that was in existence back in the original Warzone days that will even take a risk on this new version, which means all sales at this point will be to a company with a proven bad shipping record. I had one store tell me he didn't even want to see it in his store after he got burned so bad the last time. Now I know what happened to 1st and 3rd editions of the game and know it was beyond the companies' control as to why they went down. The newest edition is already getting off to a very rough start and doesn't bode well for the future.

Anyone have a direct link to the rules/faction PDFs for download?

http://warzonegame.com/images/wzrv1_1rules.pdf
http://warzonegame.com/images/bauhaus_download.pdf
http://warzonegame.com/images/brotherhood_download.pdf
http://warzonegame.com/images/capitol_download.pdf
http://warzonegame.com/images/cybertronic_download.pdf
http://warzonegame.com/images/legion_download.pdf
http://warzonegame.com/images/mishima%20_download.pdf

Thank you for much for that, RatBot!

Col. Dash wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
That said, I am at least slightly puzzled by the calls for blood at this point. I mean, 90% of fulfilment has passed, inside the next week or so another 5% will go.

Because we 10% were not part of that 90% fulfillment? Everyone else getting their stuff does not equal fulfillment on our part or make us even remotely happy. This stuff was supposed to be shipped a very long time ago. That and the book is only in PDF and apparently not in book form yet is a further annoyance since I have no printer nor can I use the printers at work since the PDF is blocked.

The rule book has been printed, and (presumably, I didn't pledge for one) received by those who have got their pledges,

you can see one out in the wild at the link below

http://gmortschaotica.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/mutant-chronicles-warzone-resurrection.html

It's not fun being one of the last to get your KS shipment (I was with Dreadball), even less so when there are problems (where they'd run out of a good chunk of the minis I was due, and had, unasked, replaced a bunch more with metal) but they really aren't trying to upset you

They want repeat custom, they want positive buzz, it's not in their interest to deliberately mess thing up

Soo, what's the status of the big kits? I'm still short an Eradicator and the release date for that kit is November 2013 on the official site.

They seem to be focusing on getting all the wave one stuff out the door, so updates have been sparse on the super-heavies. Last update on them was in a video in Update #136 (no sound at work, so I can't double check it).

Part of me wants to say they would be done with 'em late January or early February. Though who knows if the shipping situation threw that target off. I'm sure once they get past this crisis and back on track we'll get more non-shipping info.

That said, they should probably update the online store since those dates appear to be the planned second wave date before they had to re-engineer the kits.

Can't wait to see how they've changed though, though I was rather taken with their first EDD concept, so hopefully they didn't have to fiddle with it too much.

And hallelujah for PDF army lists. Now I can save my book from massive wear and tear while list building.

Though it does appear that the main rules are missing the resource table on page 22. Shouldn't be too big a fix (may have accidentally shifted to a lower layer since there is still space in the layout for it). But it should be the same as it was in the beta unless I'm mistaken (3 resources for Ranged and Close Combat, 4 for Tech and Psychic). The rest of it looks largely identical to the printed book (save for skipping the fluff section). Having a free PDF should definitely help me grow this in my group.

First of I am all with Durandal on the shipping issue, it sucks to be last but they are trying to solve it.

Secondly the heavies will get here when they get here, most of us have loads to paint anyway.

Thirdly has anyone noticed the extended resources for advanced game table lists the close combat warlord at 8 resources but the tech warlord at only 7?

All I ordered was the book, the cards, and a bag of Legion objective markers. So far I've gotten the book, the markers, and an IOU on the cards.

I know I wouldn't mind seeing a PDF of the various card decks, but I don't remember seeing those. Has that been mentioned?

 Alpharius wrote:
Thank you for much for that, RatBot!

No problem. Game looks pretty fun, looking forward to whenever they get it into wider distribution for sure.

Pending my full rules review I can say that the game looks very solid, the mechanics are much less convoluted than in say GW's games, which make it much smoother to run which is necessary since you act with every model as an individual rather than on a squad basis.

All in all I can't believe that war-gaming didn't move to a d20 system long ago.

The cards also keep both you and your opponent reacting to the unknown which is very nice. Though with between 6 and 8 resources for only the warlord + 4 for troops (10-12 depending on warlord) in a standard advanced game that mechanic may get a little to powerful.

Anyone who hasn't received their order- what's been the turnaround time on emails you've sent since Wednesday? I sent an email Wednesday afternoon and still haven't received a reply. Is this normal?

I mailed them perhaps thursday about some issues with the content of my order (see my review for details) and got a response in less than 24h.

So I guess I should be worried, then. Wonder if my emails are getting caught in a spam filter, which is weird for gmail.

 jacobus wrote:
So I guess I should be worried, then. Wonder if my emails are getting caught in a spam filter, which is weird for gmail.

It is possible. They were quick responding to me as well, but perhaps your issue isn't a simple 'whoops, sorry, we'll have that rectified in a jiff' type issue.

I usually give five business days before worrying.

For those that have their models.

Are you finding a lot of issues?

So far my purple sharks don't line up when assembled leaving huge gaps.

Sea Lions were mold slipped.. Looked atrocious both bodies and legs.

Free Marines do not fit together leaving big gaps between the legs and torsos.

I sent pics to Prodos but I am a but flustered just wondering if I got a bad batch or if it is standard.

 primalexile wrote:
For those that have their models.

Are you finding a lot of issues?

So far my purple sharks don't line up when assembled leaving huge gaps.

Sea Lions were mold slipped.. Looked atrocious both bodies and legs.

Free Marines do not fit together leaving big gaps between the legs and torsos.

I sent pics to Prodos but I am a but flustered just wondering if I got a bad batch or if it is standard.

You don't seem to be the only one with purple shark problems judging from this thread...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/574868.page#6463781

Hope that helps.

edit: Nevermind.. you've posted in that thread!

Hopefully they fix this before they get around to shipping mine. Will be doubly annoyed if the stuff I waited forever on is all screwed up and I have to wait for replacements.

 primalexile wrote:
For those that have their models.

Are you finding a lot of issues?

So far my purple sharks don't line up when assembled leaving huge gaps.

Sea Lions were mold slipped.. Looked atrocious both bodies and legs.

Free Marines do not fit together leaving big gaps between the legs and torsos.

I sent pics to Prodos but I am a but flustered just wondering if I got a bad batch or if it is standard.

Sounds like that may be a thing with some of the Purple Sharks in some cases. Not sure if it is universal or just a common issue with some of the kits.

My stuff has all been excellent so far, though. Outside of the large amounts of flash I've had little to no mould slip and most everything has lined up well.

Don't worry, they'll sort you out, probably just got some bad eggs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Recently spotted over on Facebook:





They look to be the re-engineered super-heavy tanks. I'm liking the overall updates quite a bit. Part of me will miss the crow's nest on the Grizzly, but seeing as this one isn't the old monstrous one, it makes more sense without.

The details and edges also look a lot harder. An improvement overall to the original 1:1 down-scaled version we were getting before. Should fit better with the aesthetic of the Vorreiter and Vulkan for folks that were worried about that.

I hope that means we'll be seeing an update soon.

The first tank looks like a rip-off of the Akuyaku No. 1 "Bad Guy" tank by Miyazaki, which is also released in kit form by Asuka.

Though it wouldn't be the first time this was done to that model.

Its the other way around if you think there's a similarity- the first Grizzly tank was released in '96 by forgeworld, and is similar to the CAD design (though less detailed)
The MC:Bauhaus cover art (that you see in Ronins sig and profile) are from '95 for the English edition.

Still i would chalk it up more to them both going to the same well for inspiration, taking an old retro WW1ish tank, blowing it up and slapping as many guns as possible on it.