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3k of unrelenting smash mouth:

Archaon- dorghar

Throgg
Exalted Hero- BSB, MoK, Juggernaut

20 Chaos Trolls- AHW

4 Dragon Ogres- Halberds
4 Dragon Ogres- Halberds

8 Skullcrushers- Ensorcelled Weapons, Full Command

3003 points

Archaon and bsb in juggers, throgg in trolls. It's clobbering time.

Thoughts?

Shadow magic would ruin your day. One well placed mindrazor and that will be one of your main blocks gone.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Shadow magic would ruin your day. One well placed mindrazor and that will be one of your main blocks gone.

The same is true of any army with large blocks. In fact Id argue this army is one of thru least susceptible as one block has regen and the other has Archaon and good initiative.

The issues for me are no dispell scroll. Also not convinced on great weapons on the dragon ogres. What do you need S7 against that isn't low initiative? Against mournfang, dwarves and the like Id like to be going at initiative. But either option is good.

Also Id want a shield on the BsB to get him a 1+ save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What lore on Archaon?

8 Skullcrushers in one unit seems over kill to me, especially with uber characters, I'd split them to 2 units.

The idea for the size of the units is to make sure i break units in one round of combat.

i did think about spltting the crushers into 2 unit with a character in each but then neither unit breaks hordes in one turn. even with archaon a unit of 4 will not remove a hordes stubborn in 1 combat round, the supporting attacks and second character will. this means the enemy never rarely get the chance to tie my units down for more than a turn.

Agreed on the Dragon Ogres, at first i saw the I2 and thought power over this little speed, but against lizardmen and dwarfs and ogres this could prove important. Will switch to halberds. BSB should be safe in unit with archaon hanging around.

With Archaon i was thinking lore of nurgle, especially with the stackable regen buff. Chaos trolls and throgg with 3+ regen sounds down right nasty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another point guys, as i read it Archaon allows rerolls for break tests to units within 12", effectively making him a BSB. Am i reading this right?

If so, i was thinking of dropping the BSB in favour of a sorcerer on mount to lend more magic offense and to take a dispel scroll.

Thoughts?

Archaon can only take death, fire, metal, shadow or Tzeentch. Tzeentch could be good. Though shadow bouncing Archaon around could be hilarious.

Shadow could be good, what about ditching the bsb for a l2 sorcerer on mount, shadow also?

Coz as I read it archaon acts as a bsb allowing rerolls on break tests, meaning I could afford to have a wizard with scroll.

Also will they benefit from los on daemonic mounts as book classes them as monsterous beasts, not monsterous cav?

Archaon is not quite a BSB, which allows you to re-roll all leadership test, not just break.
Another caster would be good though.

As for what lore on Archaon, I'd probably go with Shadow, always useful in almost all situations

 FlingitNow wrote:

The same is true of any army with large blocks. In fact Id argue this army is one of thru least susceptible as one block has regen and the other has Archaon and good initiative.

Against Archaon's block, He has to challenge. I would feed him one character and demolish the unit and miasma can drop your initiative. As for regen, the flaming banner is far to common to rely on it.

Yes the flaming banner is common but the unit in question has 64 wounds including throgg at T4 or better.

Realistically in most cases i will still be getting the best part of 40 str 5 attacks back, more if they don't have flaming attacks.

Yes archaon is only for break tests, but i reality:

Turn 1- archaon is providing a Ld 10 bubble to whole army.

Turn 2- things should be close to or in combat, where the reroll for break tests takes over.

I really am leaning towards ditching the BSB. also looking at making the dragon ogres 2 units of 3. saving another 136 points.

This gives me a total of 333 points for a level 2 shadow, kitted out with a daemonic mount to join the skullcrushers.

Any points left over could maybe be put towards a couple of cheap warhound units for annoyance/redirecting/warmachine hunting.

Thoughts?

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

The same is true of any army with large blocks. In fact Id argue this army is one of thru least susceptible as one block has regen and the other has Archaon and good initiative.

Against Archaon's block, He has to challenge. I would feed him one character and demolish the unit and miasma can drop your initiative. As for regen, the flaming banner is far to common to rely on it.

Firstly Archaon doesn't need to challenge he's in a unit with 2 other CoC who could challenge instead. Im also aware of flaming banners and miasma I don't see how that makes a difference? Name me a big unit that is not hurt my okams? Yes Okams kills big units we all know this. A big unit with regen and/or high initiative is going to do better against Okams than a unit without.

Have you anything helpful to add?

Ok quick revision of the list:

Archaon- Dorghar, Lore of Shadow- 650

Exalted Hero- MoK, Shield, BSB, Juggernaut- 203
Throgg- 195

20 Trolls- AHW- 760

3 Dragon Ogres- Halberds- 204
3 Dragon Ogres- Halberds- 204

7 Skulcrushers- Ensorcelled Weapons, FC- 576

Total- 2792

leaves 208 for a mounted sorcerer. worth the punt or stick with extra crusher and dragon ogres?

Yeah get a cheap sorcerer with dispell scroll. Either MoN and goes with Dragon Ogres or unmarked to go with Skullcrushers. If going with DOs best to make them 1 unit so he gets LoS.

Ok final try at this:

Archaon- Dorghar (shadow)

Exalted Hero- Shield, MoK, BSB, Juggernaut
Sorcerer- Level 2 (shadow), Dispel Scroll, Daemonic Mount
Throgg

20 Trolls- AHW

3 Dragon Ogres- Halberds
3 Dragon Ogres- Halberds

7 Skullcrushers- FC, Ensorcelled Weapons

Total= 2997

Smash Mouth acheived me thinks. What does everyone think?

 mixer86 wrote:
Chaos trolls and throgg with 3+ regen sounds down right nasty.

Where does it say that? I thought trolls had 4+ regen?

BAN wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:
Chaos trolls and throgg with 3+ regen sounds down right nasty.

Where does it say that? I thought trolls had 4+ regen?

Lore of Nurgle has a spell that grants regen or increase the save by one if you already have it till the next magic phase.

I think the list is pretty solid, I will say however if you can get a warshrine in just to constantly buff all your special characters....daemon prince archaon=game over lol

Cheers
Mike

I did think about a shrine but they got nerfed to only effect characters and frankly archaon doesn't need it throgg gets it by passing saves, archaon is protecting the bsb and the sorcerer is meh.

Plus i'm not sure what to drop to take one.

Thoughts?

You coulddrop a couple trolls if you wanted, or the other thing is Archaon is gross expensive but if you are dead set on him the the shrine would just be extra

Alas, i cannot drop ANY trolls as the unit meets minimum Core for 3k by only 10 points so no wiggle room there.

Archaon for me is fantastic for his points. Sound strange? let me expalin my theory:

650 base, including dorghar, for that you get:

-An uber killy lord capable of smashing challengers and units alike.
-Is -1 to hit in combat, can only be wounding on 3+, not 2+, a 1+ armour save and 3+ ward.
-up to 10 attacks from archaon and 3 from dorghar. All are magical to boot.
-A level 2 Wizard.
-A secondary BSB (kind of)
-All four marks of chaos

A kitted out Chaos Lord (who will have nowhere near the killing power of archaon) is around 350 ish with a mark and mount. Then you would have to purchase a wizard with level 2 upgrade, thats another 150 ish. The (kind of) BSB is only applicable for break tests but in fairness thats where the reroll usually matters, to take a BSB is another 135 minimum, more if you want a mount like archaon.

So thats at least 635 points spent on replacing archaon with similar stuff, which in reality isn't as good as him.

So when you break it down with what archaon actually brings to the party, he is 6 kinds of awesome.

Being a bit simple here, getting back into fantasy and this is a list i was sort of toying with, however you have trolls as troops, what models are these as if its chaos trolls they are £13 a time!!

Is there a different troll model available or am i missing something?

cheers for humoring a 30 year old asking noob question

You can use a number of plastic kits to make your trolls. Mixing pieces from river trolls and minotaurs for example or just flat using the rivertroll kit. Or just using the chaos troll models. This isn't a particularly expensive 3k list.

I saw the plastoc river trolls set, but even then thats 6 boxes to get 20 trolls so still hitting about £170 for one unit!

Which is fun!

I was just wondering if i had made an error and there was a core sort of troll box unit with like 5 or 10 in and i wasnt seeing it was all

But if doing maths right, this army is about £460 all in? sound about right?

That sounds about right. Which is about the cost of any 3000 point army.

Yeah thats what i had thought, was more just for the models incase i had missed something.

Its that or look at knights or more warriors, will be discussing with my mate later and i had mentioned a monster list earlier. though mine had a DP and shaggoth in so was a bit diff.

Thanks though

I'm actually planning on buying the ogre yhetees. 3 for 30.

They are modelled with 2 hand weapons anyway, resin so won't need arms of steel to carry the army around and with some chaos bitz and green stuff can certainly look chaos enough.

Plus I then have more models to add to my other fantasy army, ogres.

Yes its £210 for troops but thats 3k lists for u.

I use minotaurs, i love the models and I found that the wealth of left over bits from building the box means that I can buy bodies and bases from bitz box or something like it and really cheaply put together more. I built 12 with 2 minotaur boxes and buying 6 bodies from bitzbox I think I did it for about £100

I prefer the look of yhetees. The original chaos trolls are not bloated or muscle bound, yhetees are similar stature.

The yhetees are very nice models, the minotaurs just happen to fit the look of my army.

Thats cool, variety is one thing chaos monsters allow, just needs the right colour scheme.

I like the yhetees because the fur coats imho fits the theme of chaos coming from the frozen north.