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So recently I have been doing research on many different armies and I have recently been looking at Empire. I have always liked The Empire, the lore, the style, the units, and the idea that men prevail against such terribles evils the befall the Empire.

One thing I have seen much of, is people saying that Empire is the strongest all around army, and are not the easiest army to master, but when done, is one of the best armies in the current edition. So I am wondering what others think, how good is Empire when in the right hands? And how good are they against other armies of 8th Edition, as well as whether or not they are worth playing.

Any comments and advice would be great!

Where I live, Empire armies have won tournaments many a time. Against other armies, they seem to match up well. Except when I'm commanding them!

Yeah, Empire's alright. I've never heard anybody call them the best, though. Nor even top-tier, really.

Empire always ends up pretty middle of the road. Not saying they don't have a couple strong builds and a couple of interesting ones but still. They're not as numerous as Skaven or O&G, not as strong as WoC, not as fast as Elves etc. etc. Classic Jack of all Trades.

I personally haven't had much luck with Empire. Perhaps when I'm grown up and smart I'm going to give them another try but when that will be is anyone's guess! ;-)

Empire has the tools to deal with everything.
If you picked the right tools from what your facing, they do very well.
If you took a well balanced army, you can expect a good match.
If you took an extreme build, you can expect it to be hit and miss.

-Matt

If I can get set on a colour scheme/theme I think it will be my next army. They are sweet.

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Empire has the tools to deal with everything.
If you picked the right tools from what your facing, they do very well.
If you took a well balanced army, you can expect a good match.
If you took an extreme build, you can expect it to be hit and miss.

-Matt

QFT.

I do this all the time. They're the best all around army imo because they can do all things decently. They do everything well, but excell at nothing.

Alright so then what a would one of these, ballanced all comers, lists look like?

I have seen most have a cannon or two, a Wizard, Captain, Warrior Priest set up of some kind, as the soldiers recieve a lot of good buffs and such from the Heros and Lords.

Then some solid blocks of Greatswords and 4-5 Demigryph Knights.

The thing is, these balanced lists could come a variety of different ways.

My personal favorite is: 2x Wizards. Captain BSB. 2x Warrior Priests. 1x Horde Halberdiers (Warrior Priest+ BSB). 1x Knights w/ GW (Warrior Priest). 1x unit of handgunners for wizards. Cannons, Mortar, Hellblaster, Steamtank for tarpit.

Basically, just like any army, you need the following things. Hammer, Anvil/Tarpit. Magic, and shooting.

Multiple units could be your hammer (Knights, Greatswords, Demigryphs). Multiple Units can tarpit (Swordsmen, Flagellants, Steamtanks). Shooting is the same way with cannons, handgunners, etc.

Really, what I find to be the best part of the empire is that I could have 3-4 balanced, all comers lists, that don't look similar to eachother (besides cannons, they're pretty much a staple), and still work well.

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Empire has the tools to deal with everything.
If you picked the right tools from what your facing, they do very well.

Except you cannot pick the tools from what you're facing. I know that is quite probably not what you meant to say but it's just one of these statements that get thrown around and skirt the details, which, as we all know, is where the devil hides.

Furthermore, you're essentially saying Empire does well when it's tailored. That may well be true but it goes for anyone, and I hazard that some factions can tailor better to deal with Empire than vice versa.

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
Alright so then what a would one of these, ballanced all comers, lists look like?

I have seen most have a cannon or two, a Wizard, Captain, Warrior Priest set up of some kind, as the soldiers recieve a lot of good buffs and such from the Heros and Lords.

Then some solid blocks of Greatswords and 4-5 Demigryph Knights.

"Some" solid blocks of Greatswords, two cannon and DGK...hmm, that's already adding up. You don't have any chaff yet, no General, detachments, no HBVG or STank...of course you do not need everything but still.

Contrary to Stoupe, I did not find so many builds to work well. The problem with a list like his is the severe lack of units. He's got three in what looks like 2,400 or so points, and he himself says that at least two of them need to work together. Perhaps it's just my meta but from Vamps over Dark Elves to Skaven, HE and WoC everyone would have more units than that, and quite probably better ones. Even assuming some archers on top, I don't see how one could hold up three units for long enough, get a 2:1 and then repeat the procedure all over against anyone who knows what he does.

Having said that, I'm well aware that it might just be me and my tactical ineptitude.

 Mike der Ritter wrote:

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
Alright so then what a would one of these, ballanced all comers, lists look like?

I have seen most have a cannon or two, a Wizard, Captain, Warrior Priest set up of some kind, as the soldiers recieve a lot of good buffs and such from the Heros and Lords.

Then some solid blocks of Greatswords and 4-5 Demigryph Knights.

"Some" solid blocks of Greatswords, two cannon and DGK...hmm, that's already adding up. You don't have any chaff yet, no General, detachments, no HBVG or STank...of course you do not need everything but still.

Contrary to Stoupe, I did not find so many builds to work well. The problem with a list like his is the severe lack of units. He's got three in what looks like 2,400 or so points, and he himself says that at least two of them need to work together. Perhaps it's just my meta but from Vamps over Dark Elves to Skaven, HE and WoC everyone would have more units than that, and quite probably better ones. Even assuming some archers on top, I don't see how one could hold up three units for long enough, get a 2:1 and then repeat the procedure all over against anyone who knows what he does.

Having said that, I'm well aware that it might just be me and my tactical ineptitude.

Well I never put greatswords and DGK in the same list. They both perform the same purpose. I also play with people who aren't very competitive so theres none of the cheese you see around much. I'm playing empire in a doubles tournament (with demons) and that should be nasty (especially since I pretty much ignored the core, and just brought wizards/captain/cannons). Its usually either DGK with halberdiers as core... or Greatswords with knights w/ GW as core.

Yes, there's armies that have better all-comer lists. Usually its just one build though. DE, Skaven, Lizardmen come to mind. (Teclis is banned, so HE doesn't do well around here.) But just because 2-3 armies do cheese better doesn't mean that empire isn't the best all around army. The fact that there's only 1 hero choice, 1 core choice, and 1-2 special choices that aren't worthwhile is a testament to how good the book is. Its not over powered no. But its extremely well rounded.

There are some really filthy builds that i have seen people master, i play WOC and have never beaten my mates empire.

The Empire can build a tremendous range of lists, and be written up to produce really solid lists in all of them except, weirdly enough, gunline.

It just doesn't have one of the really powerful builds that Lizardmen and Dark Elves can produce.

Yeah, I am looking for a good all comers list. Something that can take on Lizardmen and Dark Elves of possible.

Empire have the ability to build to any opponent and fight a great fight but will struggle in tourneys because they cannot build for all opponents.

In our local tourney meta with 4-5 regular players most end up in the middle of the pack, with an extreme build popping up every now and then to a place.