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 Blackmoor wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Grand Strategy can make them always scoring if Alan rolls high enough.

 jy2 wrote:
For Grand Strategy, he makes his paladins scoring.

I could if I could roll above a 2, but I can't.

Wouldn't really matter. Who needs scoring dreads when you want a scoring paladinstar to get the Relic anyways.

 sudojoe wrote:

 Valek wrote:

 Nakor The BlueRider wrote:
I am looking forward to the this BR, it should be one hell of game.

As to who will win, i think the bugs will have the advantage if they get the right Psychic powers, Endurance and Enfeeble. The elite nature of GK could be its down fall if Blackmoor has a round of bad dice, he will have to make the most of Turn 1.

I dunno about that, just keep in mind that casting on the palladins or any unit in 12' of the dreads will drop the psyker's leadership by 4 and that the unit that is joined by Coteaz will DTW on a 4+ so good chance things will go wrong there to.

I am more thinking how much iron arms wil be rolled, that will be the key and how much kills Doctor Doom will do when he comes down...

not always a 4+ DTW as a lv 2 psyker will make you deny on 5's again as you are equal. Only 4+ if you are rolling against a lv 1 casting on you. If you are like a lv 3 liby though, you'll get the 4+ vs a lv2

Really looking forwards to this one Jy2 and blackmoore.

Also, blackmoore, do you have any critiques or additions you'd like to make to the giant GK thread on the tactics page? I'm always interested in hearing from other people's perspectives.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/460371.page

Don't forget the GKGM and the paladins are psykers as well. I believe he would get a Deny on a 3+ or maybe even 2+ (would have to check on the BRB which I don't have with me currently).

But more importantly, my Enfeebles are also on the units with Iron Arm. Guess which one I cast every turn?

nonono, you get 6+, 5+ if you have a psyker and 4+ if the psyker is of higher lvl, and to my knowledge only the Swarmlord is a lvl2

 Valek wrote:
nonono, you get 6+, 5+ if you have a psyker and 4+ if the psyker is of higher lvl, and to my knowledge only the Swarmlord is a lvl2

Is it "per" psyker or just "a" psyker?

 jy2 wrote:

 Valek wrote:
nonono, you get 6+, 5+ if you have a psyker and 4+ if the psyker is of higher lvl, and to my knowledge only the Swarmlord is a lvl2

Is it "per" psyker or just "a" psyker?

Just a psyker

Ok, my bad then. Carry on....

Add a perfidous of the unforgiven with DA libby and you can get a 3 plus DTW....

 jy2 wrote:
(From bottom of turn 2) And I do exactly that, charging my T8 flyrant in first to absorb the Overwatch. Hitting on 6's and wounding on 6's (the stormbolters can't hurt it), the paladins fail to even scratch it.

That was when I rolled all of those 6s that I have not been getting on the Tervigons. On overwatch with 6s to hit (with a re-roll due to prescience) I ended up with about 8 hits, and of those 3 rended. That is why my Grandmaster was able to kill the iron-armed Hive Tyrant with only one wound (who needed a 6 to wound also).

I thought I could take the Hive Tyrant anyways with the amount of Hammers that I had, but since he only had one wound left I thought I would trade my grandmaster for him and limit the amount of damage that he could do. I hate Iron Armed hive tyrants because strength 8 doubles out paladins and they can kill a lot of them in a hurry.

Why didn't you allocate one of the wounds to the banner instead of a hammer? Didn't his list say there were 4 hammers in the group?

 Blackmoor wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
(From bottom of turn 2) And I do exactly that, charging my T8 flyrant in first to absorb the Overwatch. Hitting on 6's and wounding on 6's (the stormbolters can't hurt it), the paladins fail to even scratch it.

That was when I rolled all of those 6s that I have not been getting on the Tervigons. On overwatch with 6s to hit (with a re-roll due to prescience) I ended up with about 8 hits, and of those 3 rended. That is why my Grandmaster was able to kill the iron-armed Hive Tyrant with only one wound (who needed a 6 to wound also).

I thought I could take the Hive Tyrant anyways with the amount of Hammers that I had, but since he only had one wound left I thought I would trade my grandmaster for him and limit the amount of damage that he could do. I hate Iron Armed hive tyrants because strength 8 doubles out paladins and they can kill a lot of them in a hurry.

Was that what happened? Then perhaps that miraculous killing in assault was with another MC? I seemed to recall that, needing 6's to wound in combat, you rolled 3-4 of them and killed my MC.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vemlin wrote:
Why didn't you allocate one of the wounds to the banner instead of a hammer? Didn't his list say there were 4 hammers in the group?

Because only 3 of them were precision shots, of which I allocated to the Warding Stave because I was going to charge the unit. He then failed 2 out of the 3 saves. The hammer died because he was the closest model to my shooting.

 Blackmoor wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
(From bottom of turn 2) And I do exactly that, charging my T8 flyrant in first to absorb the Overwatch. Hitting on 6's and wounding on 6's (the stormbolters can't hurt it), the paladins fail to even scratch it.

That was when I rolled all of those 6s that I have not been getting on the Tervigons. On overwatch with 6s to hit (with a re-roll due to prescience) I ended up with about 8 hits, and of those 3 rended. That is why my Grandmaster was able to kill the iron-armed Hive Tyrant with only one wound (who needed a 6 to wound also).

I thought I could take the Hive Tyrant anyways with the amount of Hammers that I had, but since he only had one wound left I thought I would trade my grandmaster for him and limit the amount of damage that he could do. I hate Iron Armed hive tyrants because strength 8 doubles out paladins and they can kill a lot of them in a hurry.

But tbh you used extreme luck, you could ofcourse cast hammerhand and then autocast forceweapon activation due to banner and kill that flyrant with one wound. To bad you could not charge those psyke out grenades would have been nasty to all those Psykers...

 Valek wrote:

 Blackmoor wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
(From bottom of turn 2) And I do exactly that, charging my T8 flyrant in first to absorb the Overwatch. Hitting on 6's and wounding on 6's (the stormbolters can't hurt it), the paladins fail to even scratch it.

That was when I rolled all of those 6s that I have not been getting on the Tervigons. On overwatch with 6s to hit (with a re-roll due to prescience) I ended up with about 8 hits, and of those 3 rended. That is why my Grandmaster was able to kill the iron-armed Hive Tyrant with only one wound (who needed a 6 to wound also).

I thought I could take the Hive Tyrant anyways with the amount of Hammers that I had, but since he only had one wound left I thought I would trade my grandmaster for him and limit the amount of damage that he could do. I hate Iron Armed hive tyrants because strength 8 doubles out paladins and they can kill a lot of them in a hurry.

But tbh you used extreme luck, you could ofcourse cast hammerhand and then autocast forceweapon activation due to banner and kill that flyrant with one wound. To bad you could not charge those psyke out grenades would have been nasty to all those Psykers...

No, the flyrant was Eternal Warrior due to Iron Arm so he could not have insta-killed it with his force weapons.

 Valek wrote:
But tbh you used extreme luck, you could ofcourse cast hammerhand and then autocast forceweapon activation due to banner and kill that flyrant with one wound. To bad you could not charge those psyke out grenades would have been nasty to all those Psykers...

The Paladins (with their one warp charge) can either cast Hammerhand or activate the banner. Since the TMCs that I fought had Iron Arm and not only had a huge toughness, but eternal warrior. I was better off casting hammerhand to not only wound the big bugs, but help clear out the little ones.

Blackmoor - is your army counts as Heresy Thousand Sons? They look good.

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Valek wrote:
But tbh you used extreme luck, you could ofcourse cast hammerhand and then autocast forceweapon activation due to banner and kill that flyrant with one wound. To bad you could not charge those psyke out grenades would have been nasty to all those Psykers...

The Paladins with there one warp charge can either cast Hammerhand or activate the banner. Since the TMCs that I fought had Iron Arm and not only had a huge toughness, but eternal warrior. I was better off casting hammerhand to not only wound the big bugs, but help clear out the little ones.

Couldn't the GKGM cast Hammerhand, or does that not affect units who aren't in the challenge or something along those lines?

Vemlin wrote:

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Valek wrote:
But tbh you used extreme luck, you could ofcourse cast hammerhand and then autocast forceweapon activation due to banner and kill that flyrant with one wound. To bad you could not charge those psyke out grenades would have been nasty to all those Psykers...

The Paladins with there one warp charge can either cast Hammerhand or activate the banner. Since the TMCs that I fought had Iron Arm and not only had a huge toughness, but eternal warrior. I was better off casting hammerhand to not only wound the big bugs, but help clear out the little ones.

Couldn't the GKGM cast Hammerhand, or does that not affect units who aren't in the challenge or something along those lines?

He did.

Casting the powers was still a little iffy with Shadows in the Warp since I was testing on 3 dice. So I normally only got one off which is just enough to wound the big bugs.

yeah sorry forgot about the eternal warrior...

nice, cant wait for this report to finish!

Nice match-up! Looking forward to what will likely be a photo finish!

Will conclude the battle report tonight after dinner.

Wow, talk about a close one! :O

One of the things I find particularly interesting about 40k, is the difference between concentrations of power (e.g. Paladinstars, flyrants, tervigons) and blobs (e.g. Ork boys, Imperial Guard).

When things are quite concentrated, the outlying rolls matter more (since you're rolling fewer dice/have fewer wounds). Rolling a few 1's to save on terminators can be annoying, or a few higher than normal rends against a tervigon.

The interesting thing here is that there were concentrations on both sides (paladinstar v tervigons). This creates opportunities for both sides to respond in interesting ways when those outlying numbers start appearing... thus the resulting paladin-zoanthrope/hiveguard CC.

Whoever wins, it makes things fun. More fun (in my opinion) than a blob v blob combat where you are more likely to expect a 'statistical average' result to be borne out.

 DexKivuli wrote:
One of the things I find particularly interesting about 40k, is the difference between concentrations of power (e.g. Paladinstars, flyrants, tervigons) and blobs (e.g. Ork boys, Imperial Guard).

When things are quite concentrated, the outlying rolls matter more (since you're rolling fewer dice/have fewer wounds). Rolling a few 1's to save on terminators can be annoying, or a few higher than normal rends against a tervigon.

The interesting thing here is that there were concentrations on both sides (paladinstar v tervigons). This creates opportunities for both sides to respond in interesting ways when those outlying numbers start appearing... thus the resulting paladin-zoanthrope/hiveguard CC.

Whoever wins, it makes things fun. More fun (in my opinion) than a blob v blob combat where you are more likely to expect a 'statistical average' result to be borne out.

In theory it's more fun, but I just get so angry when I roll snake eyes from a bolter with my paladins compared to losing 12 gaunts.

Intense battle! I'm pulling for the red ones.

Battle report completed.

 Blackmoor wrote:

He did.

Casting the powers was still a little iffy with Shadows in the Warp since I was testing on 3 dice. So I normally only got one off which is just enough to wound the big bugs.

And I must say you did a fine job of passing most of them.

 Valek wrote:
yeah sorry forgot about the eternal warrior...

No worries. A lot of times, I also forget about some of the secondary effects of my psychic powers, like It Will Not Die! for Endurance and Fleet for Warp Speed.

 DexKivuli wrote:
One of the things I find particularly interesting about 40k, is the difference between concentrations of power (e.g. Paladinstars, flyrants, tervigons) and blobs (e.g. Ork boys, Imperial Guard).

When things are quite concentrated, the outlying rolls matter more (since you're rolling fewer dice/have fewer wounds). Rolling a few 1's to save on terminators can be annoying, or a few higher than normal rends against a tervigon.

The interesting thing here is that there were concentrations on both sides (paladinstar v tervigons). This creates opportunities for both sides to respond in interesting ways when those outlying numbers start appearing... thus the resulting paladin-zoanthrope/hiveguard CC.

Whoever wins, it makes things fun. More fun (in my opinion) than a blob v blob combat where you are more likely to expect a 'statistical average' result to be borne out.

Yeah, with Elite armies (or even an army such as my bugs with several monstrous creatures), the effects of dice are more greatly amplified. It is less forgiving for mistakes and/or bad dice than an army with lots of units or models (i.e. MSU or green tide, for example). But this game was a game of both ups and downs for both sides. Perhaps because of that, I felt the game kind of evened out.

Vemlin wrote:

In theory it's more fun, but I just get so angry when I roll snake eyes from a bolter with my paladins compared to losing 12 gaunts.

Tell me about it. This game was not so bad compared to my next game.

Just a little preview....but I failed 5 charges which were 5" or closer. And twice I rolled snake-eyes to fail charges that were perhaps 3" away!!!

Aww so close! Forgetting to run cost you.

Reminds me of your other btrp where Kingsley forgot line breaker, which could have won him that game.

Very intense game with the victor hanging in the balance. Thanks for sharing!

 jy2 wrote:

 DexKivuli wrote:

Stuff

Yeah, with Elite armies (or even an army such as my bugs with several monstrous creatures), the effects of dice are more greatly amplified. It is less forgiving for mistakes and/or bad dice than an army with lots of units or models (i.e. MSU or green tide, for example). But this game was a game of both ups and downs for both sides. Perhaps because of that, I felt the game kind of evened out.

Yeah, that the tricky thing about elite armies (and why I personally don't like units that are too elite): the downside risk can be quite severe, while there isn't much upside risk. Rolling a few 1s on your terminator saves is devastating, while a couple of extra 6s just get sept up in your 2+ dice pool. Blobs, or even generic troops, tend to have relatively even distributions between the costs anfd benefits of rolling a few extra 6s or 1s.

This was an awesome game, I enjoyed reading it a lot. How close things came out - the number of small plays that made a difference, and the number of dice rolls that really impacted the game - shows how evenly matched these two armies are.

 SabrX wrote:
Aww so close! Forgetting to run cost you.

Reminds me of your other btrp where Kingsley forgot line breaker, which could have won him that game.

Very intense game with the victor hanging in the balance. Thanks for sharing!

Yeah, what a bone-headed mistake, maybe because we were both pretty laid back and playing more casually than competitively. Actually we both overlooked this. Blackmoor had thought that I won the game as well. I then discovered my mistake when I went to take a picture of it.

Blackmoor actually forgot about a couple of things. First of all he forgot to pick up the Relic (or maybe it was on purpose?) when he had the chance. Then he forgot the Heavy Supports were worth VP's in Big Guns, kind of similar to Kingsley forgetting about Linebreaker. I was actually quite confident of the win had the game ended on T5 (and I was playing for the game to end on T5....I wouldn't have survived after that). And then I go and make one of the dumbest plays that I've made in quite some time.

 DexKivuli wrote:

Yeah, that the tricky thing about elite armies (and why I personally don't like units that are too elite): the downside risk can be quite severe, while there isn't much upside risk. Rolling a few 1s on your terminator saves is devastating, while a couple of extra 6s just get sept up in your 2+ dice pool. Blobs, or even generic troops, tend to have relatively even distributions between the costs anfd benefits of rolling a few extra 6s or 1s.

This was an awesome game, I enjoyed reading it a lot. How close things came out - the number of small plays that made a difference, and the number of dice rolls that really impacted the game - shows how evenly matched these two armies are.

That's why powers like Prescience, master-crafting, the Grand Strategy trait to let your re-roll 1's to wound or the psychic power that lets your librarian re-roll his saves or force your opponents to re-roll their successful saves are so good to armies such as these. They really skewer the bell curve in your (elite army's) favor.

They are much more evenly matched nowadays than they were back in 5th. However, depending on matchups and the psychic powers for the bugs, I think certain builds will definitely have an advantage over other builds. Draigowing, or a paladinstar, will still give bugs problems in terms of fighting them. However, in a single mission, objectives-based scenario, IMO bugs will have a slight advantage.

Man that was SILLY amounts of close!

Don't fret the forgetfulness, Jim - I'm not sure you're allowed to Run those 'gants anyway. If you had failed an IB check (and assuming that that was area terrain), you only have permission to run towards area terrain. If you're already in it, I don't think you have permission to Run.

Very interesting game. Allan swept me off the board in 5e at the BAO with a Draigowing list; I'm not surprised he's still finding ways to make it work this edition.

Supprised about the pallistar, it did really good... could this be a competitor?