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 Janthkin wrote:
Don't fret the forgetfulness, Jim - I'm not sure you're allowed to Run those 'gants anyway. If you had failed an IB check (and assuming that that was area terrain), you only have permission to run towards area terrain. If you're already in it, I don't think you have permission to Run.

Very interesting game. Allan swept me off the board in 5e at the BAO with a Draigowing list; I'm not surprised he's still finding ways to make it work this edition.

I think that there is a little wiggle room here and perhaps I should ask this in YMDC, but my gants weren't completely in terrain. Most of them were on the border and 1 might even be outside of terrain. Anyways, could they possibly run so that each model is completely inside terrain? If so, then I would have made it to the objective as I was less than 1" away from it.

Yeah, Draigowing was rough for bugs in 5E. As I recall, someone's tyranids also swept my Draigowing off the board. Draigowing has been getting a lot of bad press since the recent 6E FAQ's, but the truth is, they are still a good army and many armies will still have problems against them.





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 Valek wrote:
Supprised about the pallistar, it did really good... could this be a competitor?

Depends on what you put as support for those paladins. I think that they are quite viable, but the trick is to not overdo that paladinstar. You need to support them with a lot of complementary units. Paladins and strikers like Blackmoors and my own is one way to do it. Another is to add the cheaper henchmen units or allied IG. I'm also considering necron allies for my Draigowing. The mobility of night scythes and wraiths make for a perfect complement to the much slower paladins.

Another great report, thanks for sharing.

Nice report, almost thought nids would have it.

Is lack of draigo just due to lack of points, or is the gm better?

Draigo is still good however for his cost I believe the lack of ap2 is probably why hes a tad less popular these days. Characters like belial even have a shot at tying him up or dare I say beating him and are half the cost. At this point level though I would guess mostly it's cost.

woot, I guessed correctly for once. (mostly cause I'm too much of a die hard GK, hell I practically wrote a book on them now lol)

Dang good job making use of pallies though. I've not fared well with them since people have all learned how to frag them now with anti-tank weapons and generally them being so expensive, I don't have alot of tanks that come with the list lol.

On the flip side, I've been doing decent with just 1-2 pally as objective campers. And possibly see myself using a group of them with cheap henchmen vehicle spam. It'll force the enemy to split their anti-tank fire at least.

Great game !

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Grand Strategy can make them always scoring if Alan rolls high enough.

 jy2 wrote:
For Grand Strategy, he makes his paladins scoring.

I could if I could roll above a 2, but I can't.

I am curious if you and JY2 are seeing a bit of a rise in MSU mech army popularity lately. I was at the GBU two weekends ago and noticed several builds (IG, SW, and GK list of various allies) that incorpoated serveral transports in addition to Flyers. Some of the smaller RTT in my area are also seeing these lists. With people building for horde, it seems that several generals are opting for a mech alternative.

 wyomingfox wrote:


I am curious if you and JY2 are seeing a bit of a rise in MSU mech army popularity lately. I was at the GBU two weekends ago and noticed several builds (IG, SW, and GK list of various allies) that incorpoated serveral transports in addition to Flyers. Some of the smaller RTT in my area are also seeing these lists. With people building for horde, it seems that several generals are opting for a mech alternative.

I was talking to a friend about this. We were saying as the meta changed to take out MSU and hordes it will almost sertainly change back to armored units to take advantage of the lack of Anti-tank weapons on the field. Swings and Roundabouts

What a great game! Thank you for sharing!

 wyomingfox wrote:

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Grand Strategy can make them always scoring if Alan rolls high enough.

 jy2 wrote:
For Grand Strategy, he makes his paladins scoring.

I could if I could roll above a 2, but I can't.

I am curious if you and JY2 are seeing a bit of a rise in MSU mech army popularity lately. I was at the GBU two weekends ago and noticed several builds (IG, SW, and GK list of various allies) that incorpoated serveral transports in addition to Flyers. Some of the smaller RTT in my area are also seeing these lists. With people building for horde, it seems that several generals are opting for a mech alternative.

BRB rules and new codices determines metagame. Vehicles took a hit in 6th ed and fielding light AV vehicles is risky considering everyone mission has First Blood. There's also cost of transitioning from MSU to horde/foot-slogging list that plays a major role. It takes time and money to buy, build, and paint a horde army. I was alarmed by the number of mech players that showed up to Game Kastle's recent tournament, though many of them have added a couple foot units. It could be the reasons I stated above, but it could also be the difficulty of completing a full timed tournament match.

This was my first game after my annual winter break from the game. I was a little rusty and I need to re-read the missions. I could have passed off the relic, and I did not know that heavy support choices gave 1 VP in big guns never tire.

I also am very lackadaisical about the victory points. I need to have a fast moving unit or two in my list for line-breaker (I think I will convert a strike squad to interceptors), and I ignored first blood. I could have killed his tervagon that only had 3 wounds left but I ignored it because it was out of gants. I also need to be more protective of my Warlord and it should have been Coteaz since he is more likely to be in the rear with the gear.



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 tuiman wrote:
Nice report, almost thought nids would have it.

Is lack of draigo just due to lack of points, or is the gm better?

Draigo vs. Grandmaster

There are a lot of arguments for both.

With Draigo he makes the Paladins scoring so he can use grand strategy for something else. He can also buy solodins if that is what you want. He is still a beast in assault and is very durable. His downsides though are points, and lack of AP2 weaponry. He also tends to make you want to keep your paladins together instead of combat-squading (which I prefer to do but with this mission and opponent it made more sense to keep them together).

You have to take a Grandmaster if you do not have Draigo because you have to use Grand Strategy to make them troops. The Grandmaster is a lot more customizable though than Draigo is because you can give him grenades, servo skulls, and you get to choose his weapons.

Next time I use a Grandmater he will have at least Rad Grenades and possibly a halberd to give anyone who wants to challenge him second thoughts.

Well anyhow you marked a win which is not bad considering those nids are of the better lists in the current meta.

It sure did give me inspiration to finish glueing my Terminators...

I think even better for the Grandmaster would be to give him Blind grenades, altough i can see the fun with rad grenades.

Secondly you dont need jumpers for linebreaker, just keep a unit in reserve and deepstrike them behind enemy lines, you can manipulate the roll with your grandmaster his psychic power.

I would take both psykotropic and rad grenades. GK are not as strong in 6th... These really help a lot.... Just think what they could have done for you in this game.

I would keep the sword on the GM for the 3++ save. Halberds work better for the Paladins.

I asked before but you must have missed it... Is your army counts as Heresy Thousand Sons? I have seen pictures of them before but never close up... They look great and I dig the conversions.

Hindsight being what it is, I don't think the Tyranids should have assaulted at all on turn 2. Keep on swooping the Tyrants around & shooting, and force the Paladins to pick a single unit per turn to destroy. One of the problems an elite list like this one has is the inability to engage a lot of targets simultaneously - he can only hit a few units at a time. Since kill points weren't in play, and First Blood was likely to fall to the 'nids, then just contain the Paladins somewhere in the middle of the board, and focus on wiping out the Strike squads, to guarantee the Big Guns points (and Linebreaker).

Feeding units into the blender that is a Prescience-backed Paladin squad w/Banner is demonstrably painful.

Yeah I wouldnt have assaulted either... that was playing directly to the strength of the PaladinStar. These kind of Nid builds are okay in melee but they are not superstars.

 Dozer Blades wrote:

I asked before but you must have missed it... Is your army counts as Heresy Thousand Sons? I have seen pictures of them before but never close up... They look great and I dig the conversions.

Ah yes, I was looking for that post to answer.

No, they are just red Grey Knights.

I do have a pre-heresy thousand sons that have been waiting several years to be worked on and I thought that the chaos codex might spark some life into them. Unfortunaly the Tzeentch units are a bit lackluster so if I do choose to use them this year (it is between them and eldar right now) they will be Grey Knights.

Yeah that would be the tactic, but he has nothing to slow them down... they would kill and advance after that, then move in their turn ,destroy something again and proceed, no way you slow them down without thinning them out.

 Valek wrote:
Yeah that would be the tactic, but he has nothing to slow them down... they would kill and advance after that, then move in their turn ,destroy something again and proceed, no way you slow them down without thinning them out.

Yes, but they need to stop & pickup the Relic, and Jim had enough units already to just bubble-wrap the Paladins for the rest of the game, between the Gargoyles & Termagants.

 Janthkin wrote:

 Valek wrote:
Yeah that would be the tactic, but he has nothing to slow them down... they would kill and advance after that, then move in their turn ,destroy something again and proceed, no way you slow them down without thinning them out.

Yes, but they need to stop & pickup the Relic, and Jim had enough units already to just bubble-wrap the Paladins for the rest of the game, between the Gargoyles & Termagants.

I am not so sure.

I can pretty much wipe out whatever charges me so the paladins would not be tied up. I just have to knock down the Hive Tyrant and take him down with shooting. Not only would my paladins shoot him but my whole army would be thrown at him.

I think he did the right thing, it is just that JY2 got unlucky with my overwatch shooting. He charged me with strength 8. toughness 8, eternal warrior Hive Tyrant with Shadows in the Warp and if I did not do 3 wounds to him from overwatch, and get really lucky to get a "6" on the 2 wounds that the Grandmaster did to him he would have done a ton of damage to my paladins.

Oh, and if the Tyrant had lived, he would have locked my paladins up in combat and then his other tyrant wound not have been shot down and killed and have been able to go through all of my strike squads. .

You dont drop relic, unless you kill they guy carrying them? and that should be no issue, althought I understand what you would want to do, still after one unit shooting would everytime kill the closest unit easely

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Janthkin wrote:

 Valek wrote:
Yeah that would be the tactic, but he has nothing to slow them down... they would kill and advance after that, then move in their turn ,destroy something again and proceed, no way you slow them down without thinning them out.

Yes, but they need to stop & pickup the Relic, and Jim had enough units already to just bubble-wrap the Paladins for the rest of the game, between the Gargoyles & Termagants.

I am not so sure.

I can pretty much wipe out whatever charges me so the paladins would not be tied up. I just have to knock down the Hive Tyrant and take him down with shooting. Not only would my paladins shoot him but my whole army would be thrown at him.

I think he did the right thing, it is just that JY2 got unlucky with my overwatch shooting. He charged me with strength 8. toughness 8, eternal warrior Hive Tyrant with Shadows in the Warp and if I did not do 3 wounds to him from overwatch, and get really lucky to get a "6" on the 2 wounds that the Grandmaster did to him he would have done a ton of damage to my paladins.

Fortune does not always favor the bold.

Enjoyed the rep, was a dam close one!

 wyomingfox wrote:

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Grand Strategy can make them always scoring if Alan rolls high enough.

 jy2 wrote:
For Grand Strategy, he makes his paladins scoring.

I could if I could roll above a 2, but I can't.

I am curious if you and JY2 are seeing a bit of a rise in MSU mech army popularity lately. I was at the GBU two weekends ago and noticed several builds (IG, SW, and GK list of various allies) that incorpoated serveral transports in addition to Flyers. Some of the smaller RTT in my area are also seeing these lists. With people building for horde, it seems that several generals are opting for a mech alternative.

I bet those were the Chicago guys. They have tweaked their 5th edition MSU lists for 6th and have kept on playing. People have taken the Hordes out against them at the AWC tourney's and that hasn't worked to well. Whether it was time constraints or whatever. Necrons have spanked them around consistently though.

Hmmm... the king of GBU was a Necron Player who brought a balanced list. Hans also scored high with his balanced necron list. Massed tesla doesn't seem to discriminate between infantry and tanks. I can't recall who they faced though, other than Hans ran into a DA list with a 4++ IG infantry blob.

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Janthkin wrote:

 Valek wrote:
Yeah that would be the tactic, but he has nothing to slow them down... they would kill and advance after that, then move in their turn ,destroy something again and proceed, no way you slow them down without thinning them out.

Yes, but they need to stop & pickup the Relic, and Jim had enough units already to just bubble-wrap the Paladins for the rest of the game, between the Gargoyles & Termagants.

I am not so sure.

I can pretty much wipe out whatever charges me so the paladins would not be tied up. I just have to knock down the Hive Tyrant and take him down with shooting. Not only would my paladins shoot him but my whole army would be thrown at him.

I think he did the right thing, it is just that JY2 got unlucky with my overwatch shooting. He charged me with strength 8. toughness 8, eternal warrior Hive Tyrant with Shadows in the Warp and if I did not do 3 wounds to him from overwatch, and get really lucky to get a "6" on the 2 wounds that the Grandmaster did to him he would have done a ton of damage to my paladins.

Oh, and if the Tyrant had lived, he would have locked my paladins up in combat and then his other tyrant wound not have been shot down and killed and have been able to go through all of my strike squads. .

That's just it though - I believe shouldn't have charged you, period. Park those gargoyles 1" away to constrain Paladin movement. Now you can't advance, and can't get the Relic, until they're dead. Next turn, repeat with a unit of 'gants. And then again. Meantime, those two Flyrants focus on killing Strike squads and just plain ignore the Pallys. Make you kill units ONLY in your turn, instead of letting you kill them in his, too.

As I say, though, this benefits a lot from hindsight. (Plus Jim & I have some different approaches to how we play our Tyranids.) But Jim definitely should know how nasty Prescience + Overwatch can be; he beat me over the head with it just a couple weeks ago.

 Janthkin wrote:
That's just it though - I believe shouldn't have charged you, period. Park those gargoyles 1" away to constrain Paladin movement. Now you can't advance, and can't get the Relic, until they're dead. Next turn, repeat with a unit of 'gants. And then again. Meantime, those two Flyrants focus on killing Strike squads and just plain ignore the Pallys. Make you kill units ONLY in your turn, instead of letting you kill them in his, too.

As I say, though, this benefits a lot from hindsight. (Plus Jim & I have some different approaches to how we play our Tyranids.) But Jim definitely should know how nasty Prescience + Overwatch can be; he beat me over the head with it just a couple weeks ago.

I think both strategies have their merits and counters.

Screening the paladins is one of their weaknesses, but there are ways to counter it. I could have the strikes shoot the screening squad and then still multi-assault if the other units are close since I was within charge range of the relic. This is the disadvantage of going second is that I have 2 turns of movement to get close to the relic before he can screen me.

Also, even though the paladin deathstar seems like a monolithic unit, it is really 3 units in one (Grandmaster, Coteaz, and Paladins), and any/all of them can beat any of the tyranid units that do not have iron arm one-on-one. I can split off and charge multiple units and tie them up. He really does not have all that many units to hold me up for long.

Also if he is flying around and killing all of my strikes the relic then becomes a priority, and I have to take it and then shoot him off of his objectives in the late game but we will never know if he could have stopped me from doing that.

Distance is negligible when the Nids have Tervigons spawning Termagants 6" and then movement + run of Termagants. Gargoyles also have greater mobility. Flying MC can also be used as speed bumps.

DarthDiggler wrote:

 wyomingfox wrote:

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Grand Strategy can make them always scoring if Alan rolls high enough.

 jy2 wrote:
For Grand Strategy, he makes his paladins scoring.

I could if I could roll above a 2, but I can't.

I am curious if you and JY2 are seeing a bit of a rise in MSU mech army popularity lately. I was at the GBU two weekends ago and noticed several builds (IG, SW, and GK list of various allies) that incorpoated serveral transports in addition to Flyers. Some of the smaller RTT in my area are also seeing these lists. With people building for horde, it seems that several generals are opting for a mech alternative.

I bet those were the Chicago guys. They have tweaked their 5th edition MSU lists for 6th and have kept on playing. People have taken the Hordes out against them at the AWC tourney's and that hasn't worked to well. Whether it was time constraints or whatever. Necrons have spanked them around consistently though.

MSU is not viable any longer for many many reasons. 6th edition is very much so unforgiving.

Wow, lots of comments while I was away. Ok, let me address some of the questions in order. Later on, I will post my Post-game Analysis.

 tuiman wrote:
Nice report, almost thought nids would have it.

Is lack of draigo just due to lack of points, or is the gm better?

I still like Draigo. At the same time, Coteaz gives the unit/army a lot of utility and him combined with the Grandmaster isn't really that much more expensive than Draigo. I would mainly take the GKGM for Grand Strategy and probably some grenades. However, the advantage of Draigo is when you are dealing with shooty armies with a lot of high-strength low-AP weaponry (i.e. vendettas, broadsides, lascannon razorback-spam, melta-spam, etc.). That is where Draigo is most useful - in tanking those insta-killing enemy shots. Unfortunately, each build is somewhat situational depending on the matchup. In preparing for a tournament, you are going to have to anticipate what you think will be the predominant meta and go from there. In this case, Blackmoor is anticipating daemons to be the dominant build there and thus opted for Coteaz. On the other hand, if you think your meta (or the competitive meta) is still MSU razor-spam or similar builds, then you may want to consider Draigo.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Draigo is still good however for his cost I believe the lack of ap2 is probably why hes a tad less popular these days. Characters like belial even have a shot at tying him up or dare I say beating him and are half the cost. At this point level though I would guess mostly it's cost.

Yeah, he took a nerfbat with his sword being only AP3. Then again, so did many of the formerly uber characters - Mephiston, Vect, Celestine, etc. I don't think it is so much cost as it is anticipating the current competitive meta. Moreover, this edition is more about the shootying and Coteaz just makes the paladinstar that much stronger in shooting.

 sudojoe wrote:
woot, I guessed correctly for once. (mostly cause I'm too much of a die hard GK, hell I practically wrote a book on them now lol)

Dang good job making use of pallies though. I've not fared well with them since people have all learned how to frag them now with anti-tank weapons and generally them being so expensive, I don't have alot of tanks that come with the list lol.

On the flip side, I've been doing decent with just 1-2 pally as objective campers. And possibly see myself using a group of them with cheap henchmen vehicle spam. It'll force the enemy to split their anti-tank fire at least.

Some people will almost always vote for their army as long as there is a competent general behind it.

Actually, one of the builds that I am thinking about for my "new" Draigowing build is Draigowing with Coteaz-MSU henchmen. I think that it can still work. It will be a shooty build with Draigostar controlling the middle. It will suck in VP missions but otherwise, I think it will do alright.

 wyomingfox wrote:

I am curious if you and JY2 are seeing a bit of a rise in MSU mech army popularity lately. I was at the GBU two weekends ago and noticed several builds (IG, SW, and GK list of various allies) that incorpoated serveral transports in addition to Flyers. Some of the smaller RTT in my area are also seeing these lists. With people building for horde, it seems that several generals are opting for a mech alternative.

I am not seeing a rise in their popularity. As a matter of fact, I am seeing more people move away from a pure MSU build. A lot of players are moving more towards a hybrid MSU/horde army by adding IG blob squads to their MSU mix. MSU is still a very good build IMO. However, they are getting owned by necron flyer-spam in tournament play. This is probably one of the main reasons why people are moving away from such builds. They are trying to add more resiliency to their ground forces.



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 Messy0 wrote:

I was talking to a friend about this. We were saying as the meta changed to take out MSU and hordes it will almost sertainly change back to armored units to take advantage of the lack of Anti-tank weapons on the field. Swings and Roundabouts

The so-called "anti-meta" meta list.

MSU is still alive and very strong. However, they do have some bad matchups in tournament play, with necron flyer-spam being one of them. I always look at the army from a tournament perspective....that is, can this army do well consistently in a 7-8 game GT environment and against the other competitive builds. Such an army will have problems against perhaps 2 of the stronger tournament builds - necrons and daemons. Thus, I don't consider pure MSU to be a GT-winning army build anymore, though they certainly can win tournaments.

 SabrX wrote:

BRB rules and new codices determines metagame. Vehicles took a hit in 6th ed and fielding light AV vehicles is risky considering everyone mission has First Blood. There's also cost of transitioning from MSU to horde/foot-slogging list that plays a major role. It takes time and money to buy, build, and paint a horde army. I was alarmed by the number of mech players that showed up to Game Kastle's recent tournament, though many of them have added a couple foot units. It could be the reasons I stated above, but it could also be the difficulty of completing a full timed tournament match.

That is a very good point. It takes time and money to give your army a complete overhaul. Not many people will be doing that. Instead they will just make some modifications to their list. Many players are still running what is essentially their 5E lists updated to take advantage of some of the stronger elements of 6E. And for the people willing to update, why play your old army again when there are a bunch of new codices out? A lot of people that I know who are going for their "2nd" armies are going for the newer armies rather than a completely revamped version of their current army mainly for the sake of variety in gameplay and play-style.

 Blackmoor wrote:

You have to take a Grandmaster if you do not have Draigo because you have to use Grand Strategy to make them troops. The Grandmaster is a lot more customizable though than Draigo is because you can give him grenades, servo skulls, and you get to choose his weapons.

Actually, I would have to disagree here. I don't think that the paladins necessarily need to be scoring. They can function fine without Draigo or the GM IMO. As a matter of fact, my future "Draigowing" and "Crowe-Purifiers" will probably be without either Draigo or Crowe. I think all you need is Coteaz.

Here is a preview of what I am thinking of running:

Coteaz
Paladinstar
6x MSU Passbacks (psycannon razors)
2x dreadknights
1x psyfleman

The paladinstar here would be a suicide unit meant to rush the enemy and contest objectives.

 Valek wrote:
Well anyhow you marked a win which is not bad considering those nids are of the better lists in the current meta.

It sure did give me inspiration to finish glueing my Terminators...

I think even better for the Grandmaster would be to give him Blind grenades, altough i can see the fun with rad grenades.

Secondly you dont need jumpers for linebreaker, just keep a unit in reserve and deepstrike them behind enemy lines, you can manipulate the roll with your grandmaster his psychic power.

Mobility is definitely one of the weaknesses of this list. I actually agree here that you don't really need interceptors for linebreaker. Deepstriking is a tool when used properly could be very effective. Of course the trade-off in this case is that you will miss their firepower for several turns until they come in.



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 Dozer Blades wrote:
I would take both psykotropic and rad grenades. GK are not as strong in 6th... These really help a lot.... Just think what they could have done for you in this game.

I would keep the sword on the GM for the 3++ save. Halberds work better for the Paladins.

I asked before but you must have missed it... Is your army counts as Heresy Thousand Sons? I have seen pictures of them before but never close up... They look great and I dig the conversions.

Here is a dilemma that I am finding with Draigowing. If you buff out your paladinstar and make them too tough - by adding apothecaries, multiple characters, psychic buffs, grenades, etc. - then you will just discourage your opponent from trying to kill them. How you beat Draigowing, or most deathstar armies, is to kill the support units. You make it too hard for your opponent to beat your deathstar and you are just making it easier for them to beat you because they will go after your support units (unless you are playing the Relic or Purge the Alien).

Honestly, I'd rather have my opponent focus their offense on my deathstar than to try to take out my support units in most missions besides the Relic.

 Janthkin wrote:
Hindsight being what it is, I don't think the Tyranids should have assaulted at all on turn 2. Keep on swooping the Tyrants around & shooting, and force the Paladins to pick a single unit per turn to destroy. One of the problems an elite list like this one has is the inability to engage a lot of targets simultaneously - he can only hit a few units at a time. Since kill points weren't in play, and First Blood was likely to fall to the 'nids, then just contain the Paladins somewhere in the middle of the board, and focus on wiping out the Strike squads, to guarantee the Big Guns points (and Linebreaker).

Feeding units into the blender that is a Prescience-backed Paladin squad w/Banner is demonstrably painful.

Basically, I had to make a choice. I could ignore his paladinstar and go for the rest of the army....but then I would be giving up the Relic, which is the Primary objective and thus worth more points. Or I could try to contain them. I chose the latter. My opponent actually had the advantage in First Blood because he was going first. 5 psycannons with re-rolls to hit and ignoring cover should have killed one of my big beasties and he actually had 2 turns to do so (because I couldn't kill his combat squad with my entire army's shooting on Turn 1). He also had the advantage in Warlord because his Warlord was protected by all those paladins and he had enough units to try to ground my Warlord (without Iron Arm!) and then to finish him off with the paladinstar.

I felt that feeding multiple units into his paladinstar, of which one was an Iron Armed MC in a challenge, should have been able to tie up his deathstar and also do a lot of damage. But the dice said otherwise.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Yeah I wouldnt have assaulted either... that was playing directly to the strength of the PaladinStar. These kind of Nid builds are okay in melee but they are not superstars.

I had a very good chance to hold them up in combat as my flyrant was impervious to most of their attacks and I locked the hammerdins in combat with my gribblies (by moving into base with them). If Blackmoor had not sacrficed his Warlord in the challenge, I could have done some serious damage to his paladins with my flyrant, especially after I killed his warding stave with shooting. But that combat just wasn't meant to be. Tyranids aren't super-great in assault, but you'd be surprised how the gribblies can tie up your killers (i.e. hammers) and let your MC's go to town on the rest of the army.

If only my Warlord was a few inches closer, I would have charged his Warp-speed arse in there as well.

 Janthkin wrote:

 Valek wrote:
Yeah that would be the tactic, but he has nothing to slow them down... they would kill and advance after that, then move in their turn ,destroy something again and proceed, no way you slow them down without thinning them out.

Yes, but they need to stop & pickup the Relic, and Jim had enough units already to just bubble-wrap the Paladins for the rest of the game, between the Gargoyles & Termagants.

Not really. One of my tervigons spawned out early on T1 with just 4 gants. His paladins were already very close to the Relic (maybe 1 movement phase away) and my gribblies were still kind of far out. I couldn't have screened them out from the Relic because had I done so, then he would have just multi-assaulted and then perhaps consolidated on top of the Relic thereafter.

Also, one thing that I didn't mention was that going up that hill took 1.5" of movement per level. That would have just made it harder for my gants to bubble wrap those pallies.

 Blackmoor wrote:

I am not so sure.

I can pretty much wipe out whatever charges me so the paladins would not be tied up. I just have to knock down the Hive Tyrant and take him down with shooting. Not only would my paladins shoot him but my whole army would be thrown at him.

I think he did the right thing, it is just that JY2 got unlucky with my overwatch shooting. He charged me with strength 8. toughness 8, eternal warrior Hive Tyrant with Shadows in the Warp and if I did not do 3 wounds to him from overwatch, and get really lucky to get a "6" on the 2 wounds that the Grandmaster did to him he would have done a ton of damage to my paladins.

Oh, and if the Tyrant had lived, he would have locked my paladins up in combat and then his other tyrant wound not have been shot down and killed and have been able to go through all of my strike squads. .

Yeah, I just needed my flyrant to survive just 1 more turn of combat. That would have made a huge difference, because next turn, you are looking at a possible assault by my Warlord with Warp Speed, 2 tervigons and some gants as well. Assuming that my guys would have been able to make the assault, my strategy would have been to wipe out those paladins with my entire army.

DarthDiggler wrote:

I bet those were the Chicago guys. They have tweaked their 5th edition MSU lists for 6th and have kept on playing. People have taken the Hordes out against them at the AWC tourney's and that hasn't worked to well. Whether it was time constraints or whatever. Necrons have spanked them around consistently though.

Not too familiar with your locale, but necrons are a bane to MSU armies. That's why many players have tweaked their lists somewhat to deal with them. Just look at Tony Kopach or Andrew Gonyo's GT-winning lists. They've added a horde element to their armies.

 wyomingfox wrote:
Hmmm... the king of GBU was a Necron Player who brought a balanced list. Hans also scored high with his balanced necron list. Massed tesla doesn't seem to discriminate between infantry and tanks. I can't recall who they faced though, other than Hans ran into a DA list with a 4++ IG infantry blob.

Yeah, teslas are the bomb. The only thing they can't handle all that well are AV14-spam, T8/9 monstrous creatures and pure horde armies like the Green Tide. Otherwise, I just love them.

 jy2 wrote:
Actually, I would have to disagree here. I don't think that the paladins necessarily need to be scoring. They can function fine without Draigo or the GM IMO. As a matter of fact, my future "Draigowing" and "Crowe-Purifiers" will probably be without either Draigo or Crowe. I think all you need is Coteaz.

Here is a preview of what I am thinking of running:

Coteaz
Paladinstar
6x MSU Passbacks (psycannon razors)
2x dreadknights
1x psyfleman

The paladinstar here would be a suicide unit meant to rush the enemy and contest objectives.

I would love to save 220 to 275 points by not taking a grandmaster/Draigo and spend it on another strike squad but I can't.

The reason why is that I have been tabled many times except for my paladins. The last time was against flying necrons who flew around and shot everything but the paladins. Just look at this game, you could have ignored my paladins and just kill everything else and you would have won if they were not troops.