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No souls, no chaos, I always wondered if the tau were necron creations due to their mutual lack of souls

Dark Mechanicus nano tech. Who needs to corrupt a soul?

 vim_the_good wrote:
Dark Mechanicus nano tech. Who needs to corrupt a soul?

Which runs on the warp, something Necrons would negate, being blanks.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Tome of Fate is a supplement for the Black Crusade game line that came out last year.

It dictates that Necrons are entirely immune to mental or physical corruption.

It's also material from a non-GW source for a game that is not published by GW, that has been shown to have glaring inconsistencies with GW-published material in other areas. It has about as much relevance as a Black Library novel does for the table-top wargame.

...What?

Necrons are immune to the Warp.
The Necrontyr were uplifted by the C'Tan to combat the Old Ones, who were a thoroughly psyker based society. The Necrons and the C'Tan are responsible for the Pariah gene and its spread throughout humanity. The Necrons are also responsible for the Cadian Gate, an area where the Warp is not just stable but mingles harmlessly with real space.

This is not new material.
Necrons cannot be corrupted, physically or mentally. Anyone telling you otherwise is running a fanfic.

or reading the actual codex.

another quote to back it up:

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

So its obvious that Necrons - or at least the rank and file are subject to the ravages or age and are in all repects physcial - consequenlty it stands to reasn that this form can be physically corrupted.

Again people are mixing up things - physicall corruption does not mean Chaos worshipping - it means that the physical form can suffer the effects of warp taint - if the Necrons can be affected by phsyical means they can suffer physical corruption - same as Grey Knights - as shown in the Blood Tide story (much asI dislike it).

Thanks for the source on Tome of Fate - it does seem to contradict some of the information in the Codex so its a chocie as to which GW source you use.........

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:
No souls, no chaos, I always wondered if the tau were necron creations due to their mutual lack of souls

Tau are Blunt NOT blanks - they have a slight but not non existant presence in the warp - they are not at all immune - just likely to be overlooked and hard to corrupt.

The Necrons, being basically mindless (like the Tyranids) would be subject to the lure of Chaos... meaning that they could never "fall".

However, the Warp is more than just the home of four really pissed of daemons who are all butt-hurt about the Emprah being ... well just plain more of a badass than them,

It's also a sort of reality in itself. Just like Gravity, Time, and certain other constants exist in the real world, certain other constants exist in the warp. It affects anything and everything that it comes in contact with. I person does not have to "fall" to chaos to be afflicted by one of Nurlge's plagues, or to feel the bite of a Chainaxe from Khorne...

Necrons, just like any other physical entity, could, and would be "corrupted" by exposure to the warp. What type of corruption is unknown. Just like a good portion of the Soul Drinkers were afflicted, they remain (questionably) loyal to the human cause. And like them, Necrons who are affected would most like suffer similar mutations... their "living metal" may mutate or assume unusual shapes, grow the proverbial tentacle, or even gain some other atypical power.

It may also be that the exposure to the warp may weaken them... it could adversely affect the bio-oils that sustain the living metal, or cause it to mutate... who knows.

They can't be mentally corrupted, nor physically, as the Necrodermis would just repair any mutations that occur.

Again read the actual codex they suffer damage and corrosion - mutation and corruption would work in the same way - in fact it is the same thing if its Nurgle.

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

Oldcrons = No. They are static machines with the faint imprint of of the Necrontyr. Anathema to the Warp and bound to the will of the C'Tan.

Newcrons = Due to the poor quality of the fluff its anyone's guess.

Overall the Necrons have no soul to corrupt, they offer nothing to the Chaos Gods and can't be tempted into service. While the Lord's can think and feel, in truth that is only the echos of their past experiences.

Alright, how about this.

You know why Orkz aren't really susceptible to chaos? Because other boyz just smack 'em back into shape fer bein' un orky. If a Necron started to get warped by chaos, Canoptek Scarabs would scurry over and reshape the warrior to purge the corruption. Right?

Two different topics which are being mixed up

Can they physcially corrupted - obviously yes given the entry from the codex above - their (or at least the warriors) bodies are subject to the normal ravages or age and corrosion.

Can they be tempted in worshiping Chaos - less clear and only potentially possible I feel with the sentient rulers - and then highly unlikely, Chaos can offer them things - Some Necrons want a biological form again - p17 Blood Vats of Zantragora

Totally different things.

Also even the Silent K|ing thinks that the fate of his race is madness... (p37)

 xSPYXEx wrote:
Alright, how about this.

You know why Orkz aren't really susceptible to chaos? Because other boyz just smack 'em back into shape fer bein' un orky. If a Necron started to get warped by chaos, Canoptek Scarabs would scurry over and reshape the warrior to purge the corruption. Right?

Yes thats highly likely - unless they have also succumbed to the same thing - like the Flayer virus which worries even the most powerful of Necron Lords - Necrons are not invulnerable.

 blood reaper wrote:

 vim_the_good wrote:
Dark Mechanicus nano tech. Who needs to corrupt a soul?

Which runs on the warp, something Necrons would negate, being blanks.

What runs on the warp?

Maybe the Necrons none existent (suppressed) soul is of no interest to the Chaos gods but their advanced tech and surely is. In the eyes or eye of any self respecting Chaos god the Necrons are a weapon to be wielded to further their goals.

Set aside for a moment any idea of the Necrons being a source of soul food for the Chaos gods and look at them more as a means to an end, a tool if you like. Then they become interesting to the Chaos gods. This is not beyond the arrogance or tactical thinking of the Chaos gods.

Then

Consider through the eyes or eye of the Chaos god. You can not snare them like you would the soul of a weak human. Instead you have to attack on a tangent. Attack to control their physical form. Use a third party. Now add in to this. 60 million years of Necron stasis!... 60 million years in a galactic empire. Wait there did I say galactic... That's big by the way.
The opportunities for a specific tomb world to become trapped, corrupted, enslaved, open.

There is plenty of room in the fluff for this.

Cheers Vim

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It's also material from a non-GW source for a game that is not published by GW, that has been shown to have glaring inconsistencies with GW-published material in other areas. It has about as much relevance as a Black Library novel does for the table-top wargame.

You seem a bit confused.

I think what you meant was:

"It is also material from a non-GW source and, like most non-GW sources, makes the fluff in the codices seem even more pathetic and terrible than it already is, and being fully licensed by GW, according to every statement on canonicity, it is just as valid as the codices, and due to the vastly superior quality contained with in, it is arguably even more valid."

But humor me: What are these glaring inconsistencies?

Not what I meant at all. If you want FFG's RPG to be *your* canon, knock yourself out, but don't pretend that it is, in anyway, more valid than any other external source as 40K "canon". It's not licensed by GW any more than the Space Marine movie was, or the Dawn of War video game series. All the license does is permit a company to produce a product in the 40K setting, using the various 40K concepts and trademarks.

In DH vs DW, Astartes Power Armor, as well as their bolt-guns, is superior in every way to that carried by the Adeptus Sororitas, despite the various Codices related to the Sororitas stating that their equipment is equivalent to that of the Astartes.

The "civilian model" of bolt-weapons present throughout Dark Heresy. There is no such thing according to every other source. A Heavy Bolter is a Heavy Bolter, whether carried by a Space Marine, mounted on a tank, or lugged about by a team of Guardsmen. Same with the bolt-gun and bolt-pistol.

The abysmally poor combat statistics of daemons, especially the Khornate daemons. A moderately athletic teenager in Dark Heresy could kick a Bloodletter's ass.

The rather considerable range of melta weapons. While I'm not expecting exact comparison to the table-top rules, meltas are, in every source, described as "short range" weapons of impressive destructive potential. The meltas in all of the FFG books are... not that.

Storm Troopers being a class, available to characters during the path of Ascension, despite normally being recruited from the Schola Progenium, where the PCs have *not* been spending the last 16-20 years of their lives.

Joining one of a pair of Ordo Assassinorum Temples because you, or your Inquisitor, asked nicely.

... and that's just a few off the top of my head.

Necrons are immune to the Warp.
The Necrontyr were uplifted by the C'Tan to combat the Old Ones, who were a thoroughly psyker based society. The Necrons and the C'Tan are responsible for the Pariah gene and its spread throughout humanity. The Necrons are also responsible for the Cadian Gate, an area where the Warp is not just stable but mingles harmlessly with real space.

Because of their pylons and other tickey-tock gubbinz, not some inherent trait of their species. Their Tomb Worlds are likewise shielded with such technologies because, otherwise, Daemons tear open their Dolmen Gates and other hyper-phasic, dimension-hopping widgets and decide to get a little iron in their diets... or maybe just roll up and start snacking on sleeping Crons like they were mother-fething bon bons. Yes, the C'Tan raised up the Necrontyr to fight the Old Ones. Guess what? The Necrons died by the billions. This is what lead to Bio-Transference, the need to continue the war.

Cadia was also recently wrecked. Adeptus Mechanicus experts believe that this was caused by a cascade failure in the ancient systems responsible for the planet checking itself. The gibbering hordes of Chaos on the surface of Cadia sure don't seem to give a single feth about the pylons now.

Last but not least, as has been mentioned a few times in this thread now, the Necrons are subject to wear and tear of time. The Warriors, especially, as the lowest-rung of Necron society (such as it is) are practically falling apart. This is entropy at its most basic form, the failure of material in the face of time. Where there is entropy, there is change. Where there is change, there is Chaos.

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:
No souls, no chaos, I always wondered if the tau were necron creations due to their mutual lack of souls

Tau have souls, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

or reading the actual codex.

another quote to back it up:

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

So its obvious that Necrons - or at least the rank and file are subject to the ravages or age and are in all repects physcial - consequenlty it stands to reasn that this form can be physically corrupted.

Again people are mixing up things - physicall corruption does not mean Chaos worshipping - it means that the physical form can suffer the effects of warp taint - if the Necrons can be affected by phsyical means they can suffer physical corruption - same as Grey Knights - as shown in the Blood Tide story (much asI dislike it).

Thanks for the source on Tome of Fate - it does seem to contradict some of the information in the Codex so its a chocie as to which GW source you use.........

Blanks can age and die. They are also immune to the corruption of Chaos.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:
No souls, no chaos, I always wondered if the tau were necron creations due to their mutual lack of souls

Tau have souls, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

or reading the actual codex.

another quote to back it up:

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

So its obvious that Necrons - or at least the rank and file are subject to the ravages or age and are in all repects physcial - consequenlty it stands to reasn that this form can be physically corrupted.

Again people are mixing up things - physicall corruption does not mean Chaos worshipping - it means that the physical form can suffer the effects of warp taint - if the Necrons can be affected by phsyical means they can suffer physical corruption - same as Grey Knights - as shown in the Blood Tide story (much asI dislike it).

Thanks for the source on Tome of Fate - it does seem to contradict some of the information in the Codex so its a chocie as to which GW source you use.........

Blanks can age and die. They are also immune to the corruption of Chaos.

Necrons are not blanks! There has never been stated to be any such connection. Infact even in the old codex it was required for the "Pariahs" to be the most warp immune. Which required actual blanks to do so.

Necrons are not immune to "Physical Corruption" They can and will be mutated, corrupted, rusted by nurgles rot, but at the same time it will count them as destroyed, where they will be returned to the tomb, which with its null fields will cancel out the mutations, allowing for proper self-repair.

It's the same principle on why warp magic will rip and tear them apart, aside from their technology they are not "Immune"

It is so cute to see people argue from ignorance after I cited a source outright stating they are immune to physical corruption.

The Warp can destroy or incapacitate them. It can't make them grow an arm from their crotch.

Oh, and I wasn't saying they were Blanks, I was highlighting how abominably bad the logic behind bringing up how they happen to be capable of rusting means that the Warp can corrupt their bodies.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
It is so cute to see people argue from ignorance after I cited a source outright stating they are immune to physical corruption.

The Warp can destroy or incapacitate them. It can't make them grow an arm from their crotch.

Oh, and I wasn't saying they were Blanks, I was highlighting how abominably bad the logic behind bringing up how they happen to be capable of rusting means that the Warp can corrupt their bodies.

The thing is, as much as I love the Black Crusade series (I do, I have tome of blood and I wish they'd release the slaanesh and nurgle one's already)

The funny thing is, despite saying they are physically immune to corruption..They can be corrupted by the rules! They have no stats or traits that physically prevent warp corruption.

With the From Beyond, they cannot be affected by Mental psyker attacks, with Undying, it cannot be affected by poisons/toxins/diseases, but nothing prevents something like the Psyker Power Storm of Change from actually granting it a "A random gift of the gods." They would need to be near a Spyder and its gloom ability to be protected, or wielding a "Shadow Ankh". Which is technology that prevents powers from the warp from harming them.

Unless I'm reading something off, I'm basing it off the "Necron Lords" stats. Page 114.

 Psienesis wrote:
Not what I meant at all. If you want FFG's RPG to be *your* canon, knock yourself out, but don't pretend that it is, in anyway, more valid than any other external source as 40K "canon". It's not licensed by GW any more than the Space Marine movie was, or the Dawn of War video game series. All the license does is permit a company to produce a product in the 40K setting, using the various 40K concepts and trademarks.

Which according to GW is just as valid as any of the codices. Glad you agree.

In DH vs DW, Astartes Power Armor, as well as their bolt-guns, is superior in every way to that carried by the Adeptus Sororitas, despite the various Codices related to the Sororitas stating that their equipment is equivalent to that of the Astartes.

I'll give you this one, Sororitas Power Armour should be AP 8.

The "civilian model" of bolt-weapons present throughout Dark Heresy. There is no such thing according to every other source. A Heavy Bolter is a Heavy Bolter, whether carried by a Space Marine, mounted on a tank, or lugged about by a team of Guardsmen. Same with the bolt-gun and bolt-pistol.

The absence of evidence is not, in fact, evidence of absence.

There are, in fact, varying forms of bolters in the fluff, the Sisters of Battle happening to use the Godwyn-De'az.

The abysmally poor combat statistics of daemons, especially the Khornate daemons. A moderately athletic teenager in Dark Heresy could kick a Bloodletter's ass.

A. No they couldn't, certainly not most of the time.

B. Rectified by future gamelines.

The rather considerable range of melta weapons. While I'm not expecting exact comparison to the table-top rules, meltas are, in every source, described as "short range" weapons of impressive destructive potential. The meltas in all of the FFG books are... not that.

They uh, they have an effective range of like twenty meters. Does this sound impressive to you, lol?

An AK-47 has an effective range of about 550 meters. By all rights, most or all firearms in the games should have far more range than listed.

Twenty meters is a very short ranged firearm

Storm Troopers being a class, available to characters during the path of Ascension, despite normally being recruited from the Schola Progenium, where the PCs have *not* been spending the last 16-20 years of their lives.

The existence of Kasrkin and Grenadiers dictate that despite "normally" being recruited from the Schola Progenium, to achieve soldiers of this ability and prowess it is not mandatory.

Joining one of a pair of Ordo Assassinorum Temples because you, or your Inquisitor, asked nicely.

I'll go ahead and not argue this because I know little of the Officio Assassinorum.

Didn't the Inquisitor Rulebook dictate that they work closely with the Inquisition though?

"They have no souls to corrupt, their every action is ordered and logical to the point of impossibility, and their living metal bodies are entirely immune to the mutating effects of the Warp."
- Tome of Fate, page 107

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/04 18:10:54

Actually, my tome says "Entirely Resistant" to the mutating effects, not immune.

I didn't copy and paste, I typed it. No one is perfect.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
I didn't copy and paste, I typed it. No one is perfect.

True enough I suppose, however I am still looking for an answer to my "Non-resistant to warp mutation Necron lord" In case that one pops up during gameplay.

Mainly because I feel something is off If I can mutate necrons despite the fluff saying against it, usually FFG is more on the ball about that.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Again read the actual codex they suffer damage and corrosion - mutation and corruption would work in the same way - in fact it is the same thing if its Nurgle.

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

Then you damage that warrior and where it is repaired it is shiney and new. Reference Hellforged.

So say you try rotting it with Nurgle. The Warrior degrades untill it reaches the point where its repair protocals kicks in and its new again. You turn that warrior into a spawn and it starts repairing itself untill it is no longer a spawn.

Since when has a Necron been immune to physical corruption??
If you shoot it with a laser it blows up. Sure it’s parts then return to the tomb but still. To say the Necrons are immune to corruption or to put it another way. Physical change, is wrong.

It’s 40K. Do what you want

Here I even attached a picture of a Necron corrupted by Chaos

 Stonerhino wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Again read the actual codex they suffer damage and corrosion - mutation and corruption would work in the same way - in fact it is the same thing if its Nurgle.

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

Then you damage that warrior and where it is repaired it is shiney and new. Reference Hellforged.

So say you try rotting it with Nurgle. The Warrior degrades untill it reaches the point where its repair protocals kicks in and its new again. You turn that warrior into a spawn and it starts repairing itself untill it is no longer a spawn.

Except thats obviously not what happens - the repair protocols for the rank and file are not perfect and as noted above and in other parts of the Codex can leave them at a less than optimal state - on occassions have bits missing.

If its "rotted" to the point of a spawn it should have either been teleported home before then to try and be repaired (and hopefully avoid infecting other machines) or is simply lost in the same way as a Necron warrior that is vapourised is gone.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
It is so cute to see people argue from ignorance after I cited a source outright stating they are immune to physical corruption. The Warp can destroy or incapacitate them. It can't make them grow an arm from their crotch.Oh, and I wasn't saying they were Blanks, I was highlighting how abominably bad the logic behind bringing up how they happen to be capable of rusting means that the Warp can corrupt their bodies.

No you specifically brought up blanks and said although they age they are immune to physical corruption by the warp and then made this line of discussion irrelvant be confirming that necrons are not in fact blanks.

Why can the Warp not make them grow an arm - As we now know from your misquote earlier, the Necron material is resistant but not immune to damage/change.

Another important question was Tome of Fate written before or after the new Necron Codex? Some of the FFG material on Dark Eldar for instance is out of date in adventures published before the new Codex.

You don't seem to know what the word "entirely" means.

When you learn the definition of "entirely", then you can rejoin this thread.

Not that this matters, since page 110 outright states they can't be corrupted or mutated.

It came out after the Necron codex, and prior sourcebooks, like Hand of Corruption, incorporate information like C'tan Shards (You can fight one) into the fluff.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Again read the actual codex they suffer damage and corrosion - mutation and corruption would work in the same way - in fact it is the same thing if its Nurgle.

Describing a generic Necron warrior : "Its limbs, though strong and sleek are pitted and corroded, covered with an oily fluid seeping from aged joints"

Then you damage that warrior and where it is repaired it is shiney and new. Reference Hellforged.

So say you try rotting it with Nurgle. The Warrior degrades untill it reaches the point where its repair protocals kicks in and its new again. You turn that warrior into a spawn and it starts repairing itself untill it is no longer a spawn.

Except thats obviously not what happens - the repair protocols for the rank and file are not perfect and as noted above and in other parts of the Codex can leave them at a less than optimal state - on occassions have bits missing.

If its "rotted" to the point of a spawn it should have either been teleported home before then to try and be repaired (and hopefully avoid infecting other machines) or is simply lost in the same way as a Necron warrior that is vapourised is gone.

I will forgive you because it doesn't sound like you have read Hellforged as I referenced. There is a scene where there are "Aged" Necron Warriors advancing towards the Soul Drinkers. The Soul Drinkers open up and the Warriors start dropping. Then to everyone's horror the Warriors start standing back up. They are still "Aged" except were they took damage. The repaired areas are chrome.

The repair protocals of the Necrons, even warriors is insane. To the point that it will even repair Chaos mutations. Simple decay does not matter untill it reaches the point that the repair protocals become active.

That said an inactive Necron is basically a hunk of metal and can degrade to dust. But if at any point it becomes active. It will begin repairing itself. So you launch a bunch of Dark Mech nanobots into an inactive tomb and they go to work. Everything they do will be undone if the tomb becomes active. Using "Scrapcode" would be like trying to take on modern super computers with a virus designed for a commodore 64.

... unless the scrap-code rewrites the hexadecimal encoding of the Resurrection Protocols.

Chaos, and its effects, are not bound by laws of physical restraint, because it's magic, plain and simple.

Are Necrons immune to having their Corrupted, shiny, metal arses grow hooves, horns and tentacles? No. Why? Because magic. How did it happen? A wizard did it.

 Psienesis wrote:
... unless the scrap-code rewrites the hexadecimal encoding of the Resurrection Protocols.

Chaos, and its effects, are not bound by laws of physical restraint, because it's magic, plain and simple.

Are Necrons immune to having their Corrupted, shiny, metal arses grow hooves, horns and tentacles? No. Why? Because magic. How did it happen? A wizard did it.

Necrons are immune to it though, because they cause it to wither and die. Such mutations require a soul, Necron's lack said soul meaning that the mutation would not occur.

All you need to do now is provide an example of a Necron being mutated.

Necrons are the most notable race in terms of telling silly Warp magic to sit the feth down and have a time out, their "hexadecimal encoding" could very well be Warp-proof.

Pretty much as others have said, they have no souls, even the personality higher ranked Necrons have are part of their programming, their neural patterns installed in a metal shell. As for their physical forms, the metals and and alloys are specifically designed to be warp resistant. The only reason they employ Null Fields against the warp is to protect themselves from warp storms which is more of a natural hazard than any focused attempted at corrupting them.

 Psienesis wrote:
Are Necrons immune to having their Corrupted, shiny, metal arses grow hooves, horns and tentacles?

Short answer = Yes they are. Because the fluff tells us so.

The first thing that every Cryptekh learns is how to give physics the finger. The second thing they learn is how to give magic the finger.

The Dolmen Gates are a perfect example of Necron technology overcoming "Magic". Why is it so hard to believe that they can do in other areas as well... Especially when we have fluff saying that is exactly what they do.