Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Chaos can't help them and so can offer them nothing to corrupt them. Anything that Chaos does to restore them to flesh, their living metal will just repair. Then there is the whole "No souls to corrupt" thing.

Nope not true - Living Metal has its limits of self repair then it normally self destructs if unable to telport or repair - first page of the Necron codex.

You don't need a soul to be physically corrupted - rock and concreate can be physically corrupted - alot depends on if the Necrons are Blanks or not?

Rocks and concrete are not in themselves resistant to corruption like living mental.

Old or new fluff the Necrons are the worst thing GW ever added to 40K imo. Tomb Kings in Space... Lets make them invincible to everything and they never die but if they die they can get back up and psychic stuff won't hurt them et al, sounds like they used a kindergarten as a focus group when they designed the whole race.

Everything you said is false, except the get back up and Tomb Kings in space thing.

 Stonerhino wrote:
Rocks and concrete are not in themselves resistant to corruption like living mental.

Which has its limits at repair - as noted in the Codex usingly resulting in teleportation or self destruction.......

So your argument is "If they can be damaged to the point of being combat ineffective and thus self destruct or get teleported away. They are therefore able to be corrupted"???

But if it makes you feel better. Sure you could do "Something" to a Necron using the warp to cause them to be teleported back to the tomb where a Tomb spider cuts off the "Corrupted" parts, repairs the damage and then teleports that Necron back to the fighting. Just as they would with a Necron Damaged beyond it's repair ability.

However that is not the same "Corrupting the Necron" which the fluff says does not work.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Everything you said is false, except the get back up and Tomb Kings in space thing.

lol, so <50% of what I posted as fact is wrong, the rest being opinion which you can't refute.

They don't die, they resurrect, the warp doesn't hurt them/cant corrupt them. What part was wrong again or did you just get a bit flustered that I dissed your krew.

 Stonerhino wrote:
So your argument is "If they can be damaged to the point of being combat ineffective and thus self destruct or get teleported away. They are therefore able to be corrupted"???

But if it makes you feel better. Sure you could do "Something" to a Necron using the warp to cause them to be teleported back to the tomb where a Tomb spider cuts off the "Corrupted" parts, repairs the damage and then teleports that Necron back to the fighting. Just as they would with a Necron Damaged beyond it's repair ability.

However that is not the same "Corrupting the Necron" which the fluff says does not work.

Actually I thought that was the argument, and the counter-argument was they would not be affected at all by those sorts of corruptions at all, no matter what.

MarsNZ wrote:
Lets make them invincible to everything

Prove this statement.

and they never die

Prove this statement.

but if they die they can get back up

Obviously, but they can also die for good.

and psychic stuff won't hurt them et al,

Prove this statement.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Actually I thought that was the argument, and the counter-argument was they would not be affected at all by those sorts of corruptions at all, no matter what.

Needing extra 'Repairing" is not the same as being corrupted. You wouldn't call a human burned by warp fire "Corrupted" by that warp fire. Of course excluding you using warp fire on an already corrupted human. It is the same with the Necrons. Sure you can do direct effect spells on them and they have the desired effect untill the Necron repairs what that effect was. It would be no different then anything else that "Damages" them.

Perfect example being a Necron being affected by Gift of Chaos (5th ed, have not had this come up in 6th). They would turn into a spawn if a spawn model was available. If not then they were mutated to the point of being a casualty and then could self repair.

The new fluff just says that eventually that Necron turned Spawn would return (self repair) to its prespawn condition at some later point.

Edit: Desided on a different approach.

The Necrons are not immune to the effects of psychic powers. They are however "Entirely resistant" to being corrupted. The best way I can put it would be to liken the "Corruption" to any other form of damage. At least to the point of view of the Necron's repair protocals. The living metal would attempt to repair a limb becoming a tentical the same as it would a limb being smashed by a large rock. Can a limb be mutated to a tentical??? Yes the same as it can be smashed by a large enough rock hitting it. Repairing the damage is no different.

and they never die

Actually I can understand this sentiment when it comes to reading necron (both old and new) You can melt one beyond slagging with five minutes of melta, it'll still teleport back and repair, you destroy a tomb world. Those inside will teleport to a new one. So it seems like they never can really lose or die in combat and everything you throw at them is pretty much worthless unless you can blow up every single tomb world at once.

Though I'm not to sure on the teleporting anymore, since that was oldcron fluff. I might be mixing them a bit.

The new fluff just says that eventually that Necron turned Spawn would return (self repair) to its prespawn condition at some later point.

Yes but the argument was could be they affected at all by said spell. Or would it do nothing and they'd just blast you, so theoretically if you could stop the repair/teleport they'd stay a spawn, thus they could be corrupted and that's the crux of the debate. Could it work at All.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Yes but the argument was could be they affected at all by said spell. Or would it do nothing and they'd just blast you, so theoretically if you could stop the repair/teleport they'd stay a spawn, thus they could be corrupted and that's the crux of the debate. Could it work at All.

Long term no it does not work at all. The duration of a game of 40k sure but that is pretty limited view of how the necron resistance works.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Actually I can understand this sentiment when it comes to reading necron (both old and new) You can melt one beyond slagging with five minutes of melta, it'll still teleport back and repair, you destroy a tomb world. Those inside will teleport to a new one. So it seems like they never can really lose or die in combat and everything you throw at them is pretty much worthless unless you can blow up every single tomb world at once.

This was actually the best thing the Newcron's codex did. It made the Necrons defeatable. Still a near impossible feat but still there is the tinest of chances that the Dynasties don't start reforming into a united race again. When the threat reaches a level that they would need to.

The older fluff just had everyone screwed.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

and they never die

Actually I can understand this sentiment when it comes to reading necron (both old and new) You can melt one beyond slagging with five minutes of melta, it'll still teleport back and repair, you destroy a tomb world. Those inside will teleport to a new one. So it seems like they never can really lose or die in combat and everything you throw at them is pretty much worthless unless you can blow up every single tomb world at once.

Though I'm not to sure on the teleporting anymore, since that was oldcron fluff. I might be mixing them a bit.

The new fluff just says that eventually that Necron turned Spawn would return (self repair) to its prespawn condition at some later point.

Yes but the argument was could be they affected at all by said spell. Or would it do nothing and they'd just blast you, so theoretically if you could stop the repair/teleport they'd stay a spawn, thus they could be corrupted and that's the crux of the debate. Could it work at All.

Actually no, the new Codex is very clear on this - IF the Necron is damaged beyond repair it will either be teleported home OR if it is unable to be teleported or too damaged (or equally it would follow mutated) it will self destruct. It would also seem possible that the self destruct could in turn fail - highly unlikely but possible..........

Tomb Worlds and their inhabitants are utterely destroyed in a number of places in the Necron Codex, indeed some of these come about due to the machinations of the Necrons character who can travel in time. He gets away with it because all the Necrons he was acting on behalf are destroyed and gone.

Also the new fluff makes it so that with the Necron Overlords etc fighting each other - again another Tomb Kings thing - they can;t just port into each others Tomb Worlds at will - or if they do there will be conseqencies.

Actually no, the new Codex is very clear on this - IF the Necron is damaged beyond repair it will either be teleported home OR if it is unable to be teleported or too damaged (or equally it would follow mutated) it will self destruct. It would also seem possible that the self destruct could in turn fail - highly unlikely but possible..........

In that scenario, that would be successful corruption of the necrodermis. Whether its self-destruct protocols engage or not is entirely irrelevant.

No argument from me there

 Psienesis wrote:
In that scenario, that would be successful corruption of the necrodermis. Whether its self-destruct protocols engage or not is entirely irrelevant.

No it isn't.

Stop equating physical damage with being corrupted or mutated by Chaos. They are not the same, no matter how much you desperately wish it were the case.

What is the difference between physical mutation and physcial corruption?

In terms of Chaos?

There isn't one, really.

 Mr Morden wrote:
What is the difference between physical mutation and physcial corruption?

Huh? Check average baal mutant and average plague marine...

So, here we go... in handy, text-based-flow-chart design.

We have a Necron and a Chaos Sorcerer.

Chaos Sorcerer casts Tentacle-for-a-Face at the Necron.

1.) Does the spell affect the Necron?

Yes? The Necrodermis is subject to mutation by the Warp. The Necron grows a tentacle where its face was. Go to 2.

No? The Necrodermis is immune to the Warp, and thus should also not be affected by any Psychic power, because the Warp is the Warp is the Warp, what the appearance of its influences in the physical world are is pretty much irrelevant. Warp Effects to which the Necron is simply a secondary concern would still work normally (ie, opening a tentacle-and-fang-lined crevasse in the earth that eats anything standing on, above or around it). End.

2) Does the Necron get engage its self-repair systems, RP or Phase Out?
Doesn't matter. Whether the Necron permanently has a tentacle for a face or only has a tentacle for a face for a few minutes is besides the point. The Necrodermis has been shown to be mutable by Chaos.

Now all you need to do is cite a source backing your point, and then you'll have contributed as much to this thread as me, rather than attempting to speculate your way out of this.

The Throne-damned game.

Gameplay mechanics is not and never has been an argument.

 Psienesis wrote:
So, here we go... in handy, text-based-flow-chart design.

We have a Necron and a Chaos Sorcerer.

Chaos Sorcerer casts Tentacle-for-a-Face at the Necron.

1.) Does the spell affect the Necron?

Yes? The Necrodermis is subject to mutation by the Warp. The Necron grows a tentacle where its face was. Go to 2.

No? The Necrodermis is immune to the Warp, and thus should also not be affected by any Psychic power, because the Warp is the Warp is the Warp, what the appearance of its influences in the physical world are is pretty much irrelevant. Warp Effects to which the Necron is simply a secondary concern would still work normally (ie, opening a tentacle-and-fang-lined crevasse in the earth that eats anything standing on, above or around it). End.

2) Does the Necron get engage its self-repair systems, RP or Phase Out?
Doesn't matter. Whether the Necron permanently has a tentacle for a face or only has a tentacle for a face for a few minutes is besides the point. The Necrodermis has been shown to be mutable by Chaos.

Your misunderstanding what's being said. A Necron can literally swim around in the warp because it will repair any mutation faster then the mutation can do anything. So it is 100% resistant to the mutating effects of the warp. Even then, that is assuming that the warp can even mutate living metal in the first place.

That is different then using a direct effect "Spell" on a Necron which would just be repaired like any other damage. And is entirely different then being "Corrupted" or "Mutated by the warp". It is just damaged living metal which then gets repaired.

Lets say just for the sake of argument that a Darkmech priest found an active Ghost Ark with no driver. He can't get the vehicle to work so he draws a bunch of symbles on it, sacrafices 100 virgens while chanting the name of a Neverborn. The Neverborn shows up and hops into it's new ride. But rather then becoming a "Possessed Ghost Ark". The living metal would "Repair" the daemon out of it.

 Stonerhino wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
So, here we go... in handy, text-based-flow-chart design.

We have a Necron and a Chaos Sorcerer.

Chaos Sorcerer casts Tentacle-for-a-Face at the Necron.

1.) Does the spell affect the Necron?

Yes? The Necrodermis is subject to mutation by the Warp. The Necron grows a tentacle where its face was. Go to 2.

No? The Necrodermis is immune to the Warp, and thus should also not be affected by any Psychic power, because the Warp is the Warp is the Warp, what the appearance of its influences in the physical world are is pretty much irrelevant. Warp Effects to which the Necron is simply a secondary concern would still work normally (ie, opening a tentacle-and-fang-lined crevasse in the earth that eats anything standing on, above or around it). End.

2) Does the Necron get engage its self-repair systems, RP or Phase Out?
Doesn't matter. Whether the Necron permanently has a tentacle for a face or only has a tentacle for a face for a few minutes is besides the point. The Necrodermis has been shown to be mutable by Chaos.

Your misunderstanding what's being said. A Necron can literally swim around in the warp because it will repair any mutation faster then the mutation can do anything. So it is 100% resistant to the mutating effects of the warp. Even then, that is assuming that the warp can even mutate living metal in the first place.

That is different then using a direct effect "Spell" on a Necron which would just be repaired like any other damage. And is entirely different then being "Corrupted" or "Mutated by the warp". It is just damaged living metal which then gets repaired.

Lets say just for the sake of argument that a Darkmech priest found an active Ghost Ark with no driver. He can't get the vehicle to work so he draws a bunch of symbles on it, sacrafices 100 virgens while chanting the name of a Neverborn. The Neverborn shows up and hops into it's new ride. But rather then becoming a "Possessed Ghost Ark". The living metal would "Repair" the daemon out of it.

The question is if the Necron Living Metal is in effect the same as a Blank - why is it effected by any form of Psychic power? Surely it would not be - whether it be attempts ot mutate or warp lightning?

Also Living Metal does not repair any and all damage or effects. It degrades steadily over time and if overwhelmed and unable to cope tries to port out and if fails - destroys itself. It is no way infallible or indestructible as you seem to think as noted throughout the Codex. Remember even the vaunted Cadian Gate pylons began to disintegrate and fracture under the assault of the warp (p11 Codex: Eye of Terror)

So is the idea that the Living Metal Shell is actually a Blank as a result of the Necron soul removal or something else entirely ?

I'm making it an argument. Fluff is fluff, the recounting of a tale by the victors, layered in mythic imagery and religious devotion to the protagonists of the tales, building events into legends and repeating as gospel hearsay and rumors of events that transpired light-years and centuries, if not millennia, away. That Marneus Calgar held a pass against an entire Ork Waaaagh for three days (or a week, or a month, or a year) is not at question... that he did it single-handedly, with nothing but a broken chainsword and a pointy stick, *that* is the stuff of legends. A Space Marine's Power Armor stops, as we are told, up to 85% of the damage of incoming fire that is capable of piercing Power Armor. There's a whole lot of weapons on the battlefield that can get through PA. So a single Marine falling to a horde of grots is possible. Not likely, but possible (made moreso because half these fools don't even wear a Throne-damned helmet, but I digress...).

Even the Grey Knights, who have never had a member fall to Chaos, can have their bodies corrupted by the Warp. That their souls remain pure and loyal is besides the fact (and, at times, requires certain arcane rituals and preparations in order to make it so. It's not automatic) that their flesh can fall.

So, too, is it with the Necrons. While their minds... or, rather, the personality engrams (such as they are) that pass for their personalities (inasmuch as a given Necron can be said to have personality) that constitute an individual Necron's sense of self (if any) may be essentially untouchable by Chaos (in that it either has no sense of self or exists in a tetradecimal format that the various meme-viruses and scrap-codes of the Dark Mechanicus has yet to crack), that does not mean that the Necrodermis cannot be made to forcefully undergo transformation, either in whole or in part. We have seen that the C'Tan, and later the Eldar, are capable of creating and deploying a code-virus that forces permanent changes to the Necrodermis, as well as a fundamental corruption of its operating protocols. The C'Tan are powerful, to be sure, but they are, in essence, the equivalents of the Great Four in the material universe (being that the Warp is utterly anathema to them). Why, then, should we be surprised that the Necrons, by all accounts an inferior species to the C'Tan but crafty enough to destroy these beings when they were at their weakest, are subject to energies that were inimical to their own gods?

Except the Living Metal of their bodies is directly stated to be entirely resistant to mutation... Of Chaos.

What the C'tan did and are is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

Still waiting for you to cite that source.

I'm not accepting of a third-party company's take on the matter. End of story.

That's cool, as long as you understand that is solely your prerogative, and that you have no evidence to contradict it.