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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 01:29:23
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Storm Guard
Salt Lake City, Utah
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I'm getting a Cygnar starter box, and am wondering what a good unit choice would be to go with it. I really want a unit of Stormblades, but I don't know if that would be a good choice for a new player.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 03:12:17
Subject: Re:New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Bloodtracker
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Gun mages are a great choise, Stormblades can also do lots of damage, if memory serve me right they can shoot on the charge doing massive damage. But Gun mages do more then damage and can fill more rolls on the battlefield.
but you should also pick up some sort of tarpit unit to slow your oppnent down and protect your Jacks.. a Unit with reach is great for this. And the less they cost in ingame points the better. They are only there to die to save your more important untis/jacks from getting killed. Think of them as pawns. Dont have the Cygnar book in front of me but think you have a few diffrent types of units that can fill this roll Stormguards being one of them they can also dish out damage with combined melee attacks, and kill enemy units with normal armour values ...
But for damage and doing magic damage(really good to shoot magic attacks, some enemy units might be immune to all other types of damage) Gunmages are a great choise. They also have a great base defence, that makes them really hard to hit, if you can move them behind cover, or boosted by spells etc. But the best thing you can Push things around with your shots. Nothing so irretating for your opponent if you push his Warbeast out of his control area. Or Push units off scenario objectivs in steamroller..
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This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2013/02/06 03:36:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 04:31:20
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Storm Guard
Salt Lake City, Utah
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Thank you. They were on the short list, actually!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 04:44:05
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Paingiver
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Usually people suggest the black 13th as a companion to the battlebox since they are a very effective small unit that brings you up to 15 points without costing too much.
Stormblades will be a good early unit to buy, but there is a new plastic box coming out that is a much better value than the current metal models. With that in mind, gun mages with their officer (always take their officer) are also a good suggestion.
If you don't care to buy a different unit until stormblades, it may be better to buy different jacks or solos. Stormsmith stormcallers are great little one point solos that can be used for their offense, disruption, or just as one-point fillers. The squire is also a very useful support model that enables your caster to do more with their focus. Captain Strangewayes is a strong warjack support model.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 07:22:13
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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If you havent bought the starter pack yet
I suggest picking a different army, Cygnar is one of the weakest armies in the game at the moment and requires extremely specific lists to be anywhere near competitive
If you are dead set on Cygnar however, Storm Blades are one of their best options, and i suggest picking up the Stormclad that goes with them
Oh and Gun Mages are awesome, but most lists tend to be filled with heavy units, especially now that colossals exist. This means that Gun Mages are not exactly the best choice since they cant do much damage to those heavy units.
You would probably feel better early on about fielding a Ironclad or Hammersmith or Defender instead of Gunmages, and after a few games maybe trying out the Gunmages
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/06 07:24:50
6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 11:49:01
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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Talamare wrote:If you havent bought the starter pack yet
I suggest picking a different army, Cygnar is one of the weakest armies in the game at the moment and requires extremely specific lists to be anywhere near competitive
This is one of the worst piece of advices that I've ever had the "pleasure" of reading. Congratulations good sir!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 12:17:23
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Paingiver
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Talamare's comments bring up one important point about Cygnar that rarely gets mentioned. Cygnar has a sort of uncanny valley of difficulty. If all the players in a gaming group are beginners they are strong and if all the players are highly experienced they are fine, but somewhere in between Cygnar does feel week -especially if your opposition is crutching on power builds. There was a time I felt Cygnar was weak myself, and I still feel the faction could use some tougher infantry, but I've warmed back up to them.
Anyone picking up Cygnar should know you are stepping into a faction where solutions do not jump out at you and attrition is a luxury. Unfortunately there is no direct solution to this since we hall have different groups and playstyles. I would like to urge my fellow cygnarans to not be afraid of mercenary infantry though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 13:55:22
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Executing Exarch
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The common suggestions for expanding the battlebox are the Squire, the Black 13th and the Journeyman warcaster. Another thing that is no too expensive, but could make things interesting for you if you decide to wait for the plastic Stormblades, would be trying out another caster. Take a look on Battlecollege or through the army book if you have it and see if anything catches your eye!
Talemare's comment is an overreaction, Cygnar is a bit more difficult to play as Dais said, but I've really enjoyed using them and they definitely should not be ignored in favour of other factions just because they take a bit more learning than some of the other factions to use well.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/06 13:55:49
DS:90-S+G++M--B--I+Pw40k05#+D++A++/eWD324R++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 15:18:13
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Boosting Black Templar Biker
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PhantomViper wrote: Talamare wrote:If you havent bought the starter pack yet
I suggest picking a different army, Cygnar is one of the weakest armies in the game at the moment and requires extremely specific lists to be anywhere near competitive
This is one of the worst piece of advices that I've ever had the "pleasure" of reading. Congratulations good sir!
Agreed. This is a ridiculously false statement. Warmachine isn't like 40k. There are no underpowered/overpowered factions. Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, to add proof to the fact that Talamare's comment is total BS, the Templecon tournament results that have been released for this year have at least one cygnar player in the top 5 of every event.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/06 15:35:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 15:49:55
Subject: Re:New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Cygnar is fine, they just want for good in-faction jamming/tar pit infantry to help them in the attrition game. Luckily Cygnar has the best mercenary access in the whole game. Pitching in for Greygore's, some Steelheads or whatever else catches your fancy fixes that problem right away. Alternatively they can go for hard assassination game or just use one of their casters who can go really 'Jack heavy. In any of these cases they'll compete just fine in your average gaming club/game store meta without having to carbon copy top tournament lists. Any other cases are strictly on player being
A) Flat-out outplayed by his or opponents.
B) Making a pet out of some really corner case list like all Trenchers and nothing but.
C) Whining
I've got a Cygnar player in my meta who is always disappointed in his Gun Mages against me. Because he uses them exclusively to try and kill things with ARM 18+ (often heavies) using Critical Brutal damage, and not even on casters with Deadeye.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/06 15:50:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 19:27:24
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Storm Guard
Salt Lake City, Utah
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Well, when are the plastic Stormblades coming out?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/07 00:46:41
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Paingiver
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Late February or early March
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/07 00:53:47
Subject: Re:New Cygnar player, need advice.
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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If you get Stormblades, I also reccomend a Stormclad warjack to go with them. If you take the UA they can Jack Marshal it.
The Stormclad gets a free point of Focus for being near them(Marshalled or not) and the Jack Marshal can give them another psuedo focus.
All this gives you a heavy hitting warjack that doesn't any focus from your caster, plus you have a unit of decent infantry(with some serious UA buffing) Automatically Appended Next Post: Nate668 wrote:PhantomViper wrote: Talamare wrote:If you havent bought the starter pack yet
I suggest picking a different army, Cygnar is one of the weakest armies in the game at the moment and requires extremely specific lists to be anywhere near competitive
This is one of the worst piece of advices that I've ever had the "pleasure" of reading. Congratulations good sir!
Agreed. This is a ridiculously false statement. Warmachine isn't like 40k. There are no underpowered/overpowered factions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, to add proof to the fact that Talamare's comment is total BS, the Templecon tournament results that have been released for this year have at least one cygnar player in the top 5 of every event.
Plus eHaley and 2 Stormwalls is just stupidly good.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/07 00:55:16
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/08 01:28:15
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Nate668 wrote:PhantomViper wrote: Talamare wrote:If you havent bought the starter pack yet
I suggest picking a different army, Cygnar is one of the weakest armies in the game at the moment and requires extremely specific lists to be anywhere near competitive
This is one of the worst piece of advices that I've ever had the "pleasure" of reading. Congratulations good sir!
Agreed. This is a ridiculously false statement. Warmachine isn't like 40k. There are no underpowered/overpowered factions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, to add proof to the fact that Talamare's comment is total BS, the Templecon tournament results that have been released for this year have at least one cygnar player in the top 5 of every event.
I personally love proof, Templecon 2012 results
Total WM Top 5 Placements
Cryx: 48
Menoth: 35
Circle: 33
Trolls: 28
Khador: 28
Skorne: 24
Legion: 21
Retribution: 16
Cygnar: 12
Minions: 9
Mercs: 6
Total WM 1st Place
Cryx: 13
Menoth: 13
Skorne: 9
Legion: 8
Khador: 8
Ret: 7
Circle: 6
Trolls: 6
Mercs: 2
Minions: 2
Cygnar: 2
Also I believe my EXACT WORDS were " requires extremely specific lists to be anywhere near competitive", I didnt say they were never competitive, but you will be stuck hugging eHaley and Stormwall
Also its true that Mercs supplement Cygnar very well, and Cygnar is actually a bit designed to have strong merc support. Tho using mercs doesnt really feel like you are playing "Cygnar" anymore.
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6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/08 02:11:26
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Paingiver
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I won't disagree on the fact that eHayley and stormwall are very easy to crutch on, but I will point out that Kieth won wm weekend masters without using either. It is possible. Things are not all blue skies and rainbows, but the power gap is much more narrow than you imply.
In my opinion the faction has several casters only a half-step from top-tier competitive play. All three Nemos, eStryker, and Kraye jump to mind. Ever since Wrath, Cygnar has been getting some very strong new releases (except triumph) so if that trend continues the next anthology could very well propel the faction to a new plateau.
And let's be fair. For whatever reason there haven't been many top players to play the faction. The few that dedicated themselves to the faction for a short time have managed to perform well with them. Cygnar is hungry for champions.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/08 02:23:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/08 04:46:26
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Satyxis Raider
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Cygnar is fine. But it isn't a plug and play faction like some. You need to learn the game and learn all the opponents armies as well. Cygnar has alot of good counters, but you need to know when to play what.
Maybe there is some slight faction imbalance at the highest level of tourny play, but really how many people are at that point? for the vast majority of us it comes down to player skill.
@ Dais - I am pretty sure Keith had eHaley in one of his lists didn't he? I know he played the eCaine list in the final round, but I thought his other list was Haley. Meh, I could be wrong. But I do agree with your point that Cygnar has a handful of good casters who can perform. I'd add Seige to your list as well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/08 12:02:13
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Paingiver
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Siege and I don't get along.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/08 16:29:09
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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Talamare wrote:Nate668 wrote:PhantomViper wrote: Talamare wrote:If you havent bought the starter pack yet
I suggest picking a different army, Cygnar is one of the weakest armies in the game at the moment and requires extremely specific lists to be anywhere near competitive
This is one of the worst piece of advices that I've ever had the "pleasure" of reading. Congratulations good sir!
Agreed. This is a ridiculously false statement. Warmachine isn't like 40k. There are no underpowered/overpowered factions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, to add proof to the fact that Talamare's comment is total BS, the Templecon tournament results that have been released for this year have at least one cygnar player in the top 5 of every event.
I personally love proof, Templecon 2012 results
Total WM Top 5 Placements
Cryx: 48
Menoth: 35
Circle: 33
Trolls: 28
Khador: 28
Skorne: 24
Legion: 21
Retribution: 16
Cygnar: 12
Minions: 9
Mercs: 6
Total WM 1st Place
Cryx: 13
Menoth: 13
Skorne: 9
Legion: 8
Khador: 8
Ret: 7
Circle: 6
Trolls: 6
Mercs: 2
Minions: 2
Cygnar: 2
Also I believe my EXACT WORDS were " requires extremely specific lists to be anywhere near competitive", I didnt say they were never competitive, but you will be stuck hugging eHaley and Stormwall
Also its true that Mercs supplement Cygnar very well, and Cygnar is actually a bit designed to have strong merc support. Tho using mercs doesnt really feel like you are playing "Cygnar" anymore.
So results from a single con are now considered "proof"?
Here is my "proof" then. Keith won WMW masters with Cygnar and he didn't even use eHaley + Stormwall in the finals game...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/08 18:45:11
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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PhantomViper wrote:
So results from a single con are now considered "proof"?
Here is my "proof" then. Keith won WMW masters with Cygnar and he didn't even use eHaley + Stormwall in the finals game...
Lol, your proof would be nice if his 2nd list wasnt eHaley and Stormwall
and come on man, you know as well as I do that top ranks of major tournaments are usually polluted by Cryx and Menoth, with a lesser extent to Khador and Legion
Cygnar rarely makes it to the top
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6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/09 01:30:51
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Executing Exarch
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I'd be interested to see how the number of tournament wins with each faction scales with the number of entries per faction, as that would give the most accurate picture of the performance of the armies, assuming equal player skill. I reckon that the number would be close to 50% for most of the factions.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/09 01:31:35
DS:90-S+G++M--B--I+Pw40k05#+D++A++/eWD324R++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/09 03:48:38
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Paingiver
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Castiel wrote:I'd be interested to see how the number of tournament wins with each faction scales with the number of entries per faction, as that would give the most accurate picture of the performance of the armies, assuming equal player skill. I reckon that the number would be close to 50% for most of the factions.
http://www.focusandfury.com/forum/index.php?topic=3569.0 this is the closest thing you will get. Paradox updated it throughout the year so it should be quite accurate. just be aware of certain dates that big models like stormwall and pony Kreoss were released and how those affected the metagame.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/09 07:51:41
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Castiel wrote:I'd be interested to see how the number of tournament wins with each faction scales with the number of entries per faction, as that would give the most accurate picture of the performance of the armies, assuming equal player skill. I reckon that the number would be close to 50% for most of the factions.
Muse on Mini did some charts of Templecon
http://museonminis.com/templecon-numbers/
Muse on Mini is also a good podcast for the OP to check out as they have quite a bit of guides as well
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/09 07:52:08
6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/09 23:08:09
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Gun Mage
In the Chaos Wastes, Killing the Chaos scum of the north
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Having recently picked up cygnar myself, I can see Talamare's point (well, I think I do), if you isolate each piece, they do pale in comparison, but when you put them together, they work really well, making up for it.
Also Love the nemo's
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/09 23:14:26
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Executing Exarch
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Talamare wrote: Castiel wrote:I'd be interested to see how the number of tournament wins with each faction scales with the number of entries per faction, as that would give the most accurate picture of the performance of the armies, assuming equal player skill. I reckon that the number would be close to 50% for most of the factions.
Muse on Mini did some charts of Templecon
http://museonminis.com/templecon-numbers/
Muse on Mini is also a good podcast for the OP to check out as they have quite a bit of guides as well
Unless I'm mis-reading those stats it would seem that I was right, Cygnar had a win ratio of 47.5% which seems to be about par for that tournament excepting Cryx, really.
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DS:90-S+G++M--B--I+Pw40k05#+D++A++/eWD324R++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/10 16:20:02
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Bane Lord Tartar Sauce
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Castiel wrote: Talamare wrote: Castiel wrote:I'd be interested to see how the number of tournament wins with each faction scales with the number of entries per faction, as that would give the most accurate picture of the performance of the armies, assuming equal player skill. I reckon that the number would be close to 50% for most of the factions.
Muse on Mini did some charts of Templecon
http://museonminis.com/templecon-numbers/
Muse on Mini is also a good podcast for the OP to check out as they have quite a bit of guides as well
Unless I'm mis-reading those stats it would seem that I was right, Cygnar had a win ratio of 47.5% which seems to be about par for that tournament excepting Cryx, really.
That is true, but what becomes interesting is when you look at the chart which separates the results for the top 25% of players using that army and the rest. Looking at that, we see that of the players using Cygnar at the tournament, 75% of them had a ~ 33% win ratio or worse. This means that the top 25% of Cygnar players all did really well, but people who weren't in that top percentage did poorly. While we don't have enough data to make solid predictions, this implies one of two things: That either Cygnar is an extremely difficult army to play properly or that only a small number of Cygnar lists are competitive. I'm not sure which is true. Interestingly enough, using this data we can say the exact same about Khador,
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/10 20:18:37
Subject: Re:New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Satyxis Raider
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Statistics can mean whatever you want them to. Most statistics people throw out don't mean jack.
If Cygnar was truely broken and terrible that it was unplayable then noone would play it. Obviously people do play Cygnar. And people win with Cygnar. So the faction can't be that bad.
In a game as complex as Warmachine there are way to many things to consider. Not just the sheer volume of rules, models and combos, but things like tourny scenarios, matchups, amount of terrain, do Cygnar players party harder the night before? There are bound to be some power level flucuations and everything is not going to be perfectly balanced.
As for Stormwall and eHaley being a crutch or not being able to win without it is silly. At the highest levels a player is going to make the most powerful lists they can. Why would you leave out arguably the best colossal and caster in the game? Every faction has power peices that a competitive player needs to consider. Are Menoth, Cryx, Legion and everyone else leaving all their power peices behind? No. So why should Cygnar? There is no such thing as being too good when it comes to competitive play.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/11 00:36:00
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Posts with Authority
South Carolina (upstate) USA
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Im about to start Warmachine, but stuck between Cygnar and Khador. Im a warjack fan above other units, so I want to use a lot of them. Are Cygnar jacks (light & heavy mix) good enough to use without a ton of infantry?
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Whats my game?
Warmachine (Cygnar)
10/15mm mecha
Song of Blades & Heroes
Blackwater Gulch
X wing
Open to other games too
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/11 00:52:22
Subject: Re:New Cygnar player, need advice.
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Yes, they also run them in numbers better than Khador(who really can't run more than 2-3 and that can be pushing it)
Cygnar has the Junior Warcaster, and many Jack Marshals, that can control warjacks beyond what the warcaster can manage. Several of their units can even control a warjack of their own.
Of course Menoth does lots of warjacks even better.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/11 01:20:32
Subject: Re:New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Posts with Authority
South Carolina (upstate) USA
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Grey Templar wrote:Yes, they also run them in numbers better than Khador(who really can't run more than 2-3 and that can be pushing it)
Cygnar has the Junior Warcaster, and many Jack Marshals, that can control warjacks beyond what the warcaster can manage. Several of their units can even control a warjack of their own.
Of course Menoth does lots of warjacks even better.
Thanks for the reply. My buddy is going with Menoth, my choices were Khador or Cygnar. Looks like it will be Cygnar if they can run a bunch of jacks and I love the Stormwall colossal model.
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Whats my game?
Warmachine (Cygnar)
10/15mm mecha
Song of Blades & Heroes
Blackwater Gulch
X wing
Open to other games too
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/11 10:19:27
Subject: New Cygnar player, need advice.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Mad4Minis wrote:Im about to start Warmachine, but stuck between Cygnar and Khador. Im a warjack fan above other units, so I want to use a lot of them. Are Cygnar jacks (light & heavy mix) good enough to use without a ton of infantry?
Khador jacks tend to be stronger than Cygnar ones, but yea Cygnar can support having more jacks and their jacks are often more interesting as well
For what you want, go with Cygnar
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6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47 |
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