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Surprised there isn't a thread on this, a story from CVG concerning Edge magazine broke a couple of days ago, that comes in the wake of Sony patenting technology that would allow them to eradicate 2nd hand games last month.

CVG link

According the the information Edge has received by people working on the new xbox, is it will require online activation to play the games, with a one use code that will make it impossible to sell on a game once its done. Now I noted maybe in the title as its still a rumour at this point and it seems crazy that Microsoft would attempt such a thing if Sony did not. However taking the patent story from Sony into account and the fact it is well known both companies are unhappy with the 2nd hand games market. It seems people are already speculating if some kind of behind closed doors deal has been reached between them and they are attempting to kill 2nd hand sales on console gaming in one foul swoop with the next generation.

The information also notes games will be available as both download and 50G Blu ray disks, as Microsoft has thankfully realised that not all of us have an internet connection strong enough to download all our games yet. Ah but what if I have no net connection and have not experienced the wonders of LIVE I hear some say, well that's where it gets a little harsh, as rumour says Microsoft has decided the number of gamers without a net connection are too small a number to be of any consequence. I'm sure they'll be thrilled about that if this all turns out to be true.

So what are the positives, well it seems LIVE is going to be a key feature with the next xbox, getting bigger and better, although with little current information on what that actually means. Several good questions have come up on both the CVG site and facebook.
Will it run single player games offline?
Will my single player game crash if the net goes down?
What if I have two Xbox next consoles due to children or buddies sharing a house, do we have to buy two games every time?
What happens if the net goes down when authenticating my code?
Will I require Gold, so paying for my games, then paying to play?
There are many more, to me I am hoping the third one will be answered via a family LIVE account, that might actually make those worth having, but in general I am now interested in seeing what bot Sony and Microsoft have to say in the coming months, it could be a bad year for renters and 2nd hand buyers though.

How does this effect folks out there in Dakka land, if this is true are you done with xbox, do you think it would be suicide to do this if Sony doesn't, if they both announce it are you done with console gaming, or does this make little difference to you?

I'm interested to see what folks think.

I'm cool with it. I don't think you'll have to have a Gold membership, but rather that it would likely be similar to the Playstation Network in that there's a "paid" membership and an "unpaid" membership--with the people forking out money having tons of perks.

I also think that you'll be able to run your SP games offline, and most likely that the way the "registration" will work is that you will be able to have friends play alongside of you but not be able to earn achievements, etc.

Oh--and of course the PS4 will have this tech. Sony patented it, and they have just as much invested into stomping out 2nd hand game sales as Microsoft.

I don't know why this rumor is perpetuating so much. So far it really is just a rumor and very bizarre one. I probably wouldn't bother getting the next Xbox is this is true, because the console will just become a PC which I already have.

On the other hand, the PC elitist in me smiles at the possibility of console players suffering what PC gamers have endured for years.

 LordofHats wrote:
I don't know why this rumor is perpetuating so much. So far it really is just a rumor and very bizarre one. I probably wouldn't bother getting the next Xbox is this is true, because the console will just become a PC which I already have.

On the other hand, the PC elitist in me smiles at the possibility of console players suffering what PC gamers have endured for years.

Only difference is that we don't have to deal with Origins!

/ohsnap

Yeah this is the thing, as a PC gamer as well.. this would be a meh response for me. I don't really pick up 2nd hand games anyway, so it wouldn't effect my decision to buy either console, the only thing I will be looking at will be the games for the two of them.

However I also understand this is a massive thing for some folks out there, especially if they are not used to PC gaming.

As to the strength of the rumour, I am honestly 50-50, I think it is not unlikely, but it is a heck of a risk, they only way I see it happening is via the alliance of both Sony and Microsoft even if neither ever acknowledge the other in the new direction of killing 2nd hand games.

I think I will head back to PC gaming if the new xbox moves in this direction.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
I think I will head back to PC gaming if the new xbox moves in this direction.

I'd say its a possibility. When you start eliminating your advantages... you eliminate your advantages. Ease of access and not being treated like pirates constantly, is one of the consoles advantages and they're throwing it away so they can challenge the used games market. talk about a tactical miscalculation.

One of my friends pointed out that the option they have already put in place is better than this. Which is the online Pass activation for 2nd hand games as it is an additional payment.

Okay some games without a lot on online content can't take advantage of it, but they wouldn't have anyway. Most games have a selling period and after that they are generally bargain bin fodder, that ten pound in some cases was as much if not more than places you could buy a new copy from if you looked around.

If a game has the luck/misfortune to be a serial 2nd hand return, it could generate a handful of the ten pound payments.

With the one sale is final system, they get the money once regardless of anything else. The other bonus of the current online pass system, is although folks have grumbled about it, it has generally been accepted with little fuss as a 'fair enough' payment.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Only difference is that we don't have to deal with Origins!

/ohsnap

Neither do we

Its the glory of a PC. When a game company does something stupid to your console, you can tell them to shove it up their gak hole and use Steam instead

EDIT: Which actually brings up the possibility that XBL could adopt the Steam model, which would make more sense and be less potentially disasterous.

 LordofHats wrote:

On the other hand, the PC elitist in me smiles at the possibility of console players suffering what PC gamers have endured for years.

The important thing to note, however, is that we've kind of gotten past that. Digital distribution is now the standard, and with that standard, platforms like Steam and GoG have some amazing deals to go with that. And aside from companies like Ubisoft and EA being completely incompetent, the DRM tends to be less intrusive.

Isn't this sort fo old news? I'm pretty sure I have read about this months ago.

TotalBiscuit said that sony's patented tech isn't directly for playstation and why would sony need to patent something like this? It's not like steam is a new thing or anything. Also doesn't psn already have something like this in place? Pre order exclusive keys can't be redeemed once they have been used right?

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
One of my friends pointed out that the option they have already put in place is better than this. Which is the online Pass activation for 2nd hand games as it is an additional payment.

Okay some games without a lot on online content can't take advantage of it, but they wouldn't have anyway. Most games have a selling period and after that they are generally bargain bin fodder, that ten pound in some cases was as much if not more than places you could buy a new copy from if you looked around.

If a game has the luck/misfortune to be a serial 2nd hand return, it could generate a handful of the ten pound payments.

With the one sale is final system, they get the money once regardless of anything else. The other bonus of the current online pass system, is although folks have grumbled about it, it has generally been accepted with little fuss as a 'fair enough' payment.

Actually, the online pass system has been grumbled about almost as much as Origin/uPlay. The reason being that Little Timmy's parents don't know that there is a code required for Little Timmy to play online, and as such their brat will raise a huge stink with everyone but the shop which sold them the second hand game without telling them about the requirement for an Online Pass.

Which is why part of the requirement is that shops like GameStop, etc are reputedly going to be required to own "readers" that they will be required to use to ensure that the code for the game which is being returned/sold to them has not already been activated. Each code is going to be unique and tied to a specific console/gamertag but you can reputedly request a new code so that if your console breaks you can transfer all your content over without having to rebuy games/memory cards, etc.

Could not care less. I don´t support the 2nd hand market at all because brick and mortar stores went out of their way to not pay publishers anything for it. They are the ones to blame for all this gak.

And yeah, I´m in the same boat. Mainly a PC gamer so for me it´s the standard anyway.

Won't have an effect on me, tbh.

I was considering upgrading my console but considering these measures, I don't believe I will and the entire PC/console gaming industry can go DIAF for all I care.
Although my PS2 does have a net adapter, it was bought mainly for the IDE connector on it, so I could fit a hard drive. It has never been connected to sony's network.

Making a net connection mandatory for game play? Oh yeah, that'll work down here (large portions of this country are STILL on dial-up speeds until the national broadband network is finished and this is less than adequate for online game use).

I have an xbox live account even though I have no xbox, nor games for it, or any pc games that currently run on this machine (everything needs xp or less). I have the account because windows phone set it up. I can't kill the xbox live account without killing phone.

If they seriously want to kill off the second hand market, go download content ONLY. Whilst a physical media exists for it, there will be a 2nd hand market.

Well, I bought a PS3, and not a single new game for it. Every game I've bought was 2nd hand.

I wouldn't have bought a PS3 if I had to buy every game brand new. Just way to much money. The same will go for the Xbox. I have a family of 5, and i'm the sole source of income. I cannot afford to spend $300 on a system, and then $60 a game for it. Just can't do it. So I'd go to straight PC games with that.

Considering how much new consoles tend to cost when they come out, if this is true, I'd probably just build a gaming PC, which I can also use for work and a ton of other things, which I couldn't with a game system.

Gotta admit I'll miss being able to go to the local gamestore and dig around through the used games and pick up like 15 for 30 bucks like I could do when I was a kid. When funcoland was getting rid of their N64 games I bought a ton and it was awesome.

Also, losing a system is going to SUCK if they don't have a way to back up your info and save what purchases you have. Xbox live already has this built in though so I'm not worried. When my old xbox finally keeled over, my next one loaded up all my XBLA games automatically.

Only other thing that would bug me is HAVING to have an internet connection to play, especially for single player games. It just screams "we don't trust you'', and is can be really inconvenient if you live out in the country like me and internet goes down all the time, or you like to take your system over to a friend's house and do a LAN party or something. I've heard about how it works on the PC and am not looking forward to it if this is true...

I admit I am a Sony fanboy. Though, I have owned 2 xbox 360s which were primarily used Halo, Fable and Mass Effect. Ive never had a Gold Live account as I use the ps3 for any online console gaming/streaming/bluray. That said, If this is the trend of console gaming I will only buy the next gen consoles when they are around the $250 mark. I have a couple of friends that I swap games (non multiplayer) with so we can save some money, and if cant do this anymore frankly the games will not be bought. Stuff has just become too expensive to risk buying a dud game.

p.s. I am a PC gamer majority of the time anyway, I enjoy me some RTS and Sim Builders. Steam for the most part is doing it right in my opinion, something like that wouldn't be too bad.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Gotta admit I'll miss being able to go to the local gamestore and dig around through the used games and pick up like 15 for 30 bucks like I could do when I was a kid. When funcoland was getting rid of their N64 games I bought a ton and it was awesome.

You know gamespot still sells pc games that are 99% of the time cheaper than console equivalents and they are not used.

There are some large questions ove the legality of restricting second hand software sales within the EU http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/jul/05/eu-used-digital-games-market.

Basically the European Court of Justice has ruled that because when you buy a game you gain ownership of it for an unlimited period you effectively own it and should gain the rights associated with ownership such as being able to sell it on, all the crap in EULAs about it being a license are meaningless.

So far its not had much of an effect but there is a court case gearing up in Germany against Steam on this very subject.

In XBOX live the same as GFWL?

It's a similar service but not the same AFAIK...
Though IIRC you can play some games across platforms using GFWL...

GFWL is a hideous, obtrusive mess and it has been for years, surely the XBOX version isn't as bad as that is it?

Nah Live is fine...
GFWL is truly horrific though...

There's a piece done by Bloomberg link here http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-07/gamestop-members-may-snub-next-gen-console-restrictions.html

Seems like alot of Bricks and mortar shops aren't happy if new consoles from Microsoft and Sony stop the trade of second hand games.

Of course not. It'll cost them a lot of money. Money that's pretty much pure profit for them. But of course, what are they going to do? Stop selling console games?

But the rise of direct download sales will ultimately screw them completely anyway, so maybe they should pick their battles more carefully

It's their own fault anyway.

 Soladrin wrote:
It's their own fault anyway.

I've never had less than fantastic service from the stores I have bought my many pre-owned games from. I also feel that I've got fantastic value for money on all the pre-owned games I have bought, because they didn't cost a fortune and were often on special offer (3 for the price of 2 for example). On the other hand, there are games I have bought new for £50-60 and wish I hadn't bothered. Even a new game I knew was going to be fantastic isn't worth that much money. When new games were hitting the market at £30 then I used to buy significantly more new games than used. Now it is rare for me to buy new versions of new release games - they are just not worth it the majority of the time.

None of that is the fault of the used game retailers. Used sales don't increase the demands on server capacity, bandwidth for patches, etc... it doesn't cost the publisher/developer anything. I've heard that with this new system in place games prices will come down a "lot quicker"... i very much doubt this. If you hold an effective monopoly on supply, why would you lower prices when you can continue to gouge people for the full RRP?

And I very much doubt all this extra income for the developers/publishers will mean that DLC will become cheaper or even free either...

I highly doubt there will be much extra income.

 LordofHats wrote:
I highly doubt there will be much extra income.

It remains to be seen what the impact of this technology will be, as well as exactly how the pricing structure will work. I personally think we will see new games coming in priced at least £60 (next-next-gen - totally worth it!!!!!11111pi) with no appreciable drop off in price for 4-6 months, if not longer. It will certainly be interesting to see what the uptake will be like from the customer base but I can't imagine that the developers/publishers/etc will be including this kind of technology because it will lose them money... they must feel that it will make them more compared to the existing model.

I could care less if sony or microsoft become the asshats of the world by killing off 2nd hand gaming, the only console i use is my SNES. And now being serious, i would be baffled if they actually go ahead with this kind of tech to ban the use of 2nd hand games

 purplefood wrote:
Nah Live is fine...
GFWL is truly horrific though...

Isn't Live worse?

As far as I know you have to pay for gold membership inorder to play online and it still has adds.