Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Am thinking of adding a 40 man IG platoon a to my army along with to two heavy weapons squads one with mortars and one with laz cannons. As i don't have the dex am just looking for how many points they cost and how best to use them also what hw are good and which to not take. my idea is to use them as as a fire base to cover the advance of my three rhinos based tac squads that will rush to clam objectives they will be screened by 2 rhinos. also all have 2 dreads to help the IG platoon. That should give me 7 scoring units. that makes it hard for my opponent to stop me from taking objectives. as i have no idea what all be face at a turny am just going to take what works best for me and infy always does good for me.

We can't tell you points costs here.

The best way to use heavy weapons is in a way where you don't force them to snap fire in the shooting phase.

The best HWSs are ones armed with lascannons, but HWSs are pretty fragile. I don't know if I'd bother with them at all, with any armament.

Heavy weapon squads: No good.

Heavy weapons teams in a platoon, good.

Answer to what heavy weapons you want: Lascannons. Always lascannons. They're effective, not horrifyingly expensive, and have plenty of guys in front of them to take wounds when in a blob.

Oh, and we can't post point costs on Dakka.

For reference, posting of point costs can be acceptable, in a limited fashion, when it's necessary as part of a discussion. Or in an army list, the total cost of a unit.

What's not acceptable is posting detailed breakdowns of all the point costs of upgrades in a given unit, or posting the cost of stuff as a substitute for actually buying or referencing an actual codex.

Why are hw squads so badt. Just thought with my 5 tanks runing around that people will ingore them. that way they live a few rounds and cause some trouble. Are they just as badas dev squads are don't cause a nuff damage be for they die and have low numbers

Get the dex first, it will help you immensely with figuring out what you need. That, or flip through it at your store. While IG uses similar weapons to what space marines use, we go about using them in completely different ways.

It's kind of hard to understand till you have the dex in front of you.

As for the weapons, mortars are terrible, lascannons are awesome. You always want the lascannons. Autocannons can have arguments made for them, but if you're planning on using this platoon as an objective camper and for fire support, lascannons all the way. Maybe even throw in meltas or plasma too.

I want mortars to deal with hoard armies and how can they be bad at that

frogy27 wrote:
I want mortars to deal with hoard armies and how can they be bad at that

*horde

Mortars don't put out enough damage compared to what other weapons can be taken instead.

A few mortars will never be enough to deal with a horde; better to take heavy weapons that can actually kill stuff.

Leave hordes to Thunderfire cannons and Tanks.

frogy27 wrote:
I want mortars to deal with hoard armies and how can they be bad at that

This is something where IG differs from space marines.

In IG, there is a way we do things.

1. Infantry kill tanks.

2. Tanks kill infantry.

3. Vendettas kill everything.

Mortars aren't great because you go against what your guardsmen are good at (killing tanks) and try to do what your tanks should be doing. I know it sounds crazy, but just because IG can have our lasguns shoot like 100 shots a turn, doesn't mean they're good. Their real value is wound counters for your special and heavy weapons and bubble wrapping tanks or just area denial in general. Hence why people use our infantry to kill tanks, because they're dirt cheap and can take tons of weapons to accomplish that task.

If you like the idea of a cheap, indirect fire, and fairly accurate barrage weapon, look into griffons. They're basically a light assault mortar mounted on a chimera. They're dirt cheap and you can get 6 on the field for a paltry 450pts. And they reroll scatter if you want them to.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

frogy27 wrote:
I want mortars to deal with hoard armies and how can they be bad at that

This is something where IG differs from space marines.

In IG, there is a way we do things.

1. Infantry kill tanks.

2. Tanks kill infantry.

3. Vendettas kill everything.

Mortars aren't great because you go against what your guardsmen are good at (killing tanks) and try to do what your tanks should be doing. I know it sounds crazy, but just because IG can have our lasguns shoot like 100 shots a turn, doesn't mean they're good. Their real value is wound counters for your special and heavy weapons and bubble wrapping tanks or just area denial in general. Hence why people use our infantry to kill tanks, because they're dirt cheap and can take tons of weapons to accomplish that task.

If you like the idea of a cheap, indirect fire, and fairly accurate barrage weapon, look into griffons. They're basically a light assault mortar mounted on a chimera. They're dirt cheap and you can get 6 on the field for a paltry 450pts. And they reroll scatter if you want them to.

Griffons reroll scatter? Is that in a FAQ? I'm looking at the entry in the codex, it only says the Griffon can't fire directly is all.

How in the heck does inf kill tanks tanks kill tanks inf kills inf

frogy27 wrote:
How in the heck does inf kill tanks tanks kill tanks inf kills inf

The infantry pack lascannons, which are useful for popping vehicles. Missile launchers are good vs light vehicles also. Meanwhile, a lot of people run Leman Russ tanks, which tend to be more effective vs infantry than they are vs vehicles.

frogy27 wrote:
How in the heck does inf kill tanks tanks kill tanks inf kills inf

Infantry mass has meltas + heavy weps = dead tanks
(dont relly on a lasgun doing anything against infantry..)

Tanks have blasts and flamers and punishers = dead infantry

most people will be ready for big tank guns to kill there big tanks not the little guardsmen running at them.

 Iron Dragon wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

frogy27 wrote:
I want mortars to deal with hoard armies and how can they be bad at that

This is something where IG differs from space marines.

In IG, there is a way we do things.

1. Infantry kill tanks.

2. Tanks kill infantry.

3. Vendettas kill everything.

Mortars aren't great because you go against what your guardsmen are good at (killing tanks) and try to do what your tanks should be doing. I know it sounds crazy, but just because IG can have our lasguns shoot like 100 shots a turn, doesn't mean they're good. Their real value is wound counters for your special and heavy weapons and bubble wrapping tanks or just area denial in general. Hence why people use our infantry to kill tanks, because they're dirt cheap and can take tons of weapons to accomplish that task.

If you like the idea of a cheap, indirect fire, and fairly accurate barrage weapon, look into griffons. They're basically a light assault mortar mounted on a chimera. They're dirt cheap and you can get 6 on the field for a paltry 450pts. And they reroll scatter if you want them to.

Griffons reroll scatter? Is that in a FAQ? I'm looking at the entry in the codex, it only says the Griffon can't fire directly is all.

Check out the accurate barrage rule. It's specified in the ordnance battery rules. Don't have my codex with me but if you have yours just look up the Griffon, it should show up pretty easily with a bit of reading. Lets you reroll your scatter dice if you're unhappy with where it hit. Extremely handy, and gives you a 50%+ chance of scoring a direct hit, awesome for sniping things out of a unit.

frogy27 wrote:How in the heck does inf kill tanks tanks kill tanks inf kills inf

Try this mindset out sometime with your IG list. You'd be surprised at just how literally cut and dry it is. Give all your infantry anti tank weaponry of some sort (lascannons, autocannons, plasma, melta) and outfit all your fire support vehicles to kill infantry of various flavors. It's not so much that our infantry can't kill other infantry, or that our tanks kill enemy tanks, it's just that it's not nearly as points efficient. I have no idea why our codex works that way, it just does.

Yes, lasguns can kill infantry. They're nowhere near as good at it point for point as a dedicated tank or ordance platform is though. Vice versa goes for tanks firing at tanks. Even our dedicated anti tank tank (vanquisher) is nowhere near as effective as a couple of meltavet squads, or a suicide stormtrooper squad with meltas. On the flipside, look at how much damage 30 guardsmen with lasguns can do rapid firing into a unit of gaunts. Now, look at the damage two griffons can do (they're the same price). The griffons have double the range, are more survivable, kill models from the center of the template out, are more accurate, and have better AP and double the strength.

It's just how our codex works. Doesn't matter if you run mech vets, foot guard, hybrid, whatever. If you're playing IG, you probably already do this to some degree in your lists and just don't realize it yet.

Dunno are you allowed to use DKoK,they can make platoons 10 guards+3 heavy weapons,although,you don't have options for heavy weapons in 10 man squad.
And they have rly nice arty options,T7 thud guns/heavy mortars!

they are getting new dex rly soon.

As pretty much everyone else has said, motars suck. You'll hit around 2 people max with each blast, if you don't scatter. That's a pretty pathetic number. They are only str:4, so against Green Tide, out of those 2 hits, you'll only wound 1. Rather pathetic.

Lascannons on the other hand, are great at blowing up vehicles. They also are fantastic at dealing with MCs. Plus, as you'll be shooting at vehicles or MCs, BID will make them 75% accurate, rather than 50%.

So when the choice is between a weapon that can do one job, but sucks at the job, or a weapon that can do multiple jobs and is good to decent at them all, the obvious choice is the LC.

The reason HWTs suck is because they are W2 T3 Ld7. Tons and tons of armies have str:6 and higher, which will ID your heavy weapons without having to blow through 8 other guardsmen before they are touched. Also at Ld7, they will only receive orders 1/2 the time. The Ld8 of a sergeant may not sound much, but it's enough to make orders reliable, rather than just a coin toss.

they are getting new dex rly soon.

DKoK is getting their own Codex?

frogy27 wrote:
Am thinking of adding a 40 man IG platoon a to my army along with to two heavy weapons squads one with mortars and one with laz cannons. As i don't have the dex am just looking for how many points they cost and how best to use them....... etc

Do yourself (and everyone you play against) a favor and buy the damn codex! How do you play without it? What happens when someone asks "Oh, can I read the rules for giving orders?" What do you say? "I don't own the codex, you'll just have to take my word for it." I can see this causing a LOT of problems.

As i have gathered from my post and others i have read IG are not good allies for marines. as they dont complement marines and add extra fire power and scoring units so i won't be get the dex and building any IG. i think all just run all marines at truny as i don't think allies are that big any how same with planes.

Overlord Zerrtin wrote:most people will be ready for big tank guns to kill there big tanks not the little guardsmen running at them.

What, what? It doesn't take a compotent player long to figure out the big, pointy guns are las cannons in your squads.

Griddlelol wrote:Lascannons on the other hand, are great at blowing up vehicles. They also are fantastic at dealing with MCs. Plus, as you'll be shooting at vehicles or MCs, BID will make them 75% accurate, rather than 50%.

So when the choice is between a weapon that can do one job, but sucks at the job, or a weapon that can do multiple jobs and is good to decent at them all, the obvious choice is the LC

I wouldn't consider killing vehicles and MC's being a multi-tasker. The LC is a one shot, AP 1 weapon designed to take down large profile targets.

The LC and Mortar are polar opposites. While I prefer the Griffon, if a player wants to keep his Heavy slots open, purchasing One or Two Mortar Teams can throw wounds on units abusing LOS (and holding objectives) without taking up a HS slot for something else.

And smart players will lay waste to the Company Command Squads first. Consequently, the Company Commander needs to see said vehicle/mc to issue Bring it Down, so relying on orders is a rather moot point.

frogy27 wrote:
As i have gathered from my post and others i have read IG are not good allies for marines. as they dont complement marines and add extra fire power and scoring units so i won't be get the dex and building any IG. i think all just run all marines at truny as i don't think allies are that big any how same with planes.

IG literally have the most scoring units and the most firepower that SM can take as an ally.

They are downright the best ally for Marine armies.

frogy27 wrote:
As i have gathered from my post and others i have read IG are not good allies for marines. as they dont complement marines and add extra fire power and scoring units so i won't be get the dex and building any IG. i think all just run all marines at truny as i don't think allies are that big any how same with planes.

If anything, the IG can bring the MOST firepower and MOST scoring units of any army. My foot list has more troop choices than a lot of Marine armies even have choices. Honestly, the IG are some of the best allies anyone can take. You just need to use them for the right purpose.

They don't seem to be any good from what people have been saying. i guess 40extra guys backed up by hws are just a wast and useless to a sm force.

frogy27 wrote:
They don't seem to be any good from what people have been saying. i guess 40extra guys backed up by hws are just a wast and useless to a sm force.

Wouldn't quite say they are a waste. You just need to see the codex and figure what your options are, since you seem to lack that knowledge. The IG are easily one of the best, if not the best, armies in the game right now. They share a seat at the top of the competitive chain with SW's, GK's, and Necrons. I don't run vanilla Marines, so I can't really help you with that side, but I can tell if the IG contingent is good. But if you want them, you NEED the codex. We are famous for having an FOC in the FOC with out platoons, so having the codex is mandatory (well, like any army) to fgioure out what parts you need.

I just don't want to get codex to have it change . just like when i got 5Ed it changed on me. And it seems to be waste to by codex to find out you don't want that army have 4codexs allready and only use marines

KplKeegan wrote:

I wouldn't consider killing vehicles and MC's being a multi-tasker. The LC is a one shot, AP 1 weapon designed to take down large profile targets

Those large profile targets happen to be two very different beasts. A plasma gun is also a multi-task weapon, it can take down MCs and heavy armored troops, but struggles with vehicles. See how MC killing power =/= tank killing power?

And smart players will lay waste to the Company Command Squads first. Consequently, the Company Commander needs to see said vehicle/mc to issue Bring it Down, so relying on orders is a rather moot point.

Relying is a bit strong. Also good luck taking down a CCS quickly. A chimera behind cover with camo-netting can keep them alive for a long time. If not, there's always an ADL and GTG. They're not as easy to kill as you make out. I've had them survive long enough for BID and FOMT to have big effects on the battle.

frogy27 wrote:They don't seem to be any good from what people have been saying. i guess 40extra guys backed up by hws are just a wast and useless to a sm force.

Clearly a troll.

Why are people always saying am. a troll. sorry haven't been playing very long and don't get ever thing about this game just the way people been talking in this post seems like ig don't do much. to help sm

frogy27 wrote:
Why are people always saying am. a troll. sorry haven't been playing very long and don't get ever thing about this game just the way people been talking in this post seems like ig don't do much. to help sm

No one has said IG are bad. They've all said your choices for IG are bad.

IG are a top tier codex, unlike C:SM, when formed of pure IG units. They are also amazing allies, you just don't seem to be able to pick the good units, nor do you want to understand why the units you've chosen are bad. Ignoring advice on how to make them good, then declaring IG as bad is what makes me think you're a troll.

 Griddlelol wrote:

frogy27 wrote:
Why are people always saying am. a troll. sorry haven't been playing very long and don't get ever thing about this game just the way people been talking in this post seems like ig don't do much. to help sm

No one has said IG are bad. They've all said your choices for IG are bad.

IG are a top tier codex, unlike C:SM, when formed of pure IG units. They are also amazing allies, you just don't seem to be able to pick the good units, nor do you want to understand why the units you've chosen are bad. Ignoring advice on how to make them good, then declaring IG as bad is what makes me think you're a troll.

He doesn't have the codex, that's why he isn't picking the good options.

Then what should i use all tanks it just seems a troops are bad in all armys and you shouldt take more then 2 and loads up on ever thing else