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Teclis. That's it. The Book of Hoeth is vastly overrated as it costs so much and leaves the mage vulnerable. At the end of the day, HE are mid-tier at best with only a couple of viable builds in most comp (Star Dragon & Coven spring to mind).

WoC got better if anything. I don't see how you think they got nerfed? They're still very very good.

1. To your WOC comment. The old tried and true Tzeentch deathstar with 40+ warriors is really expensive now. Hwence they have to think this is an anathema to some WOC players who like a autoplay army. Meaning i put down my horde walk across the table and there is nothing you can do.

2. Yeah Teclis is overpowered especially when combined with Banner of the World Dragon. Swordmasters are very good but they are not overpowered as anyone who survives the assault can really hit them hard.

Other than that High elves have no overpowered units but they are quite fun.

He's aren't overpowered by a long shot, although there was a time when people believed that their universal ASF would break the game. They do have some very strong units such as White Lions and Swordmasters but Teclis notwithstanding they are only a mid tier army

I can see the "Elf ASF" getting nerfed

The one that completely ignores ASL. Its not OP imo but I can see GW getting rid of it

Yeah, they'll probably lose the ability to ignore ASL from great weapons but thats it. So White Lions and Swordmasters will have no rerolls.

In all honesty, I don't see GW trying particularly hard to balance the HE specials. By now, most HE players already own a fair few of these so the sensible (from a financial perspective) option would be to nerf the current infantry specials so that people won't use them anymore, and make their monstrous cavalry (Drake riders seems to be an option that are thrown around a lot) so good that people have to go out and buy 2 units of 5.

I don't, not all the threads asking about starting HEs

Issue is not there is more customers out there but rather we all want to know how HE will look once they get updated

That and what new minis are available for them

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


Phoenix Guard, Teclis, BotWD.

Pretty typical really.

Phoenix Guard is OP? Really?

whatdoiknow wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


Phoenix Guard, Teclis, BotWD.

Pretty typical really.

Phoenix Guard is OP? Really?

Yeah that statement needs review.

Phoenix Guard are only seen as OP if you've never played against them, people see their 4++ and think they must be the greatest unit ever, their the worst out of the three special infantry units

In the news and rumors section they just recently posted a whole bunch of rumors. What's going to come out sounds really cool! I can't wait to see those new Phoenixes.

 Red Comet wrote:
In the news and rumors section they just recently posted a whole bunch of rumors. What's going to come out sounds really cool! I can't wait to see those new Phoenixes.

The thing is that they're likely to be the "cool monster" that every army seems to be getting upon updating. Basically it's something cool looking that sells but really is pretty useless in game because monsters are fairly bad this edition. I'm liking the sound of Magic Bows and Universal Martial Prowess though, could mean those lovely Sea Guard models from IoB see more usage.

7th edition monsters in 8th were bad. 8th edition monsters in 8th are pretty good. Sphinx and arachnaroks and (anything WoC) are great. Greater Daemons are a lot better than they were. VC has some very scary monsters. All are worth points for more than cool reasons.

Arachnaroks are not great, they are pretty mediocre and are never used in competitive play due to being too expensive and not prodiving a major benefit for your army along with the overall weakness to cannons.

Arachnarok has 8 wounds. That's like 3-4 cannon shots to kill it, factoring in misfires and no bounces. So he'll likely make it to combat at least. Whatever the cannon WAS going to shoot at, just got a reprieve. It's not like if you don't have an Arachnarok they don't bring cannons. But the spider is a lot better able to deal with the shots than other O&G targets. Unless, for some reason, they wanted to shoot at a pile of goblins.

The spider has 16 attacks + thunderstomp! 8 attacks at Str5 poison and 1 of which at D6 wounds. It will kill nearly any single unit in the game. Hero or other monster. Like a chimera or terrorgheist will die before they even get to act because it has decent init for a monster.

It's an incredibly destructive weapon. It just has a giant footprint and I think the model is kinda ugly. It also has trouble jiving with the cheap horde mentality of O&G. They can already get a bazillion strength 5 squigs and trolls and manglers and fanatics. Where do you put the big spider? But the monster itself is damn good.

 The Shadow wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
In the news and rumors section they just recently posted a whole bunch of rumors. What's going to come out sounds really cool! I can't wait to see those new Phoenixes.

The thing is that they're likely to be the "cool monster" that every army seems to be getting upon updating. Basically it's something cool looking that sells but really is pretty useless in game because monsters are fairly bad this edition. I'm liking the sound of Magic Bows and Universal Martial Prowess though, could mean those lovely Sea Guard models from IoB see more usage.

To be honest I was thinking that the new Dragon would probably be this large centerpiece model that will be useless. So far the Phoenix looks like a unit that buffs other units and you can possibly choose which buff you want. Swordsmasters seem like they will still be a good choice, but only time will tell. I like the idea of Martial Prowess across the board as well. It also seems that some units are having Speed of Asuryan removed, not all. Swordsmasters seem to be keeping it which is nice.

 Red Comet wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
In the news and rumors section they just recently posted a whole bunch of rumors. What's going to come out sounds really cool! I can't wait to see those new Phoenixes.

The thing is that they're likely to be the "cool monster" that every army seems to be getting upon updating. Basically it's something cool looking that sells but really is pretty useless in game because monsters are fairly bad this edition. I'm liking the sound of Magic Bows and Universal Martial Prowess though, could mean those lovely Sea Guard models from IoB see more usage.

To be honest I was thinking that the new Dragon would probably be this large centerpiece model that will be useless. So far the Phoenix looks like a unit that buffs other units and you can possibly choose which buff you want. Swordsmasters seem like they will still be a good choice, but only time will tell. I like the idea of Martial Prowess across the board as well. It also seems that some units are having Speed of Asuryan removed, not all. Swordsmasters seem to be keeping it which is nice.

Word on the streets of Hoeth is that army wide ASF will not be removed, but it'll no longer mean that units with GWs will ASF, they'll cancel each other out as normal. Word on the streets of Lothern is probably different though, it's always hard to tell. Personally, I hope they don't nerf Swordmasters. I have quite a few.

Word on the street is they get a new unit (Phoenix) that gives your army USRs such as ASF

Across the army ASF is pretty nice.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Word on the street is they get a new unit (Phoenix) that gives your army USRs such as ASF

Pah, I hope not. We shouldn't need to buy phoenixes to give ourselves ASF

New Phoenix unit confirmed via a picture on Twitter earlier today, looks like it will be a character mount which means you will likely have the option to take them in special/rare as unridden monsters.