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First off, let me apologise for making a 'help me choose' thread, I'm sure you get them a lot. I expect plenty of 'We can't choose for you' replies but I'm ruddy indecisive so ANY opinions or discussion would be valuable!

Simply put, I'd like to start an army- I've been a long time 'sort of player' buying a mini here and there, mostly books. I do,however want to get a 500 point army together this year and would like some help deciding on a suitable army for my needs.

Criteria from most to least important.

Must not rely on special characters as I like to 'tell my own story' with fluff.
Models must not look like hair-metal rejects (No 'Jain Zars!')
Army list must be full of options and flexible enough that I can make 'specialised armies'. (eg a list that would let me play shooty or melee depending upon equipment.)
Tanks are cool.
Low model count preferred as I am poor, but not required.

As I said, I like discussion so please, ask me further questions if you like, It might help me make my own decision!

I'd say go with Grey Knights. Their models look great, have multiple effective builds, are strong in shooting and melee.

They are flexible in terms of whether or not you want a lot of models or very few powerful ones.

It also doesn't hurt that the current level of internet butthurt is mostly pointed at Imperial guard/Necron Airforce builds, so you won't get as many rolled eyes when you unpack your minis

 Eldarain wrote:
I'd say go with Grey Knights. Their models look great, have multiple effective builds, are strong in shooting and melee.

They are flexible in terms of whether or not you want a lot of models or very few powerful ones.

It also doesn't hurt that the current level of internet butthurt is mostly pointed at Imperial guard/Necron Airforce builds, so you won't get as many rolled eyes when you unpack your minis

As I also steer clear of Special Characters, I would also stand to avoid any Coteaz/Draigowing list haters! Good idea, I'll bear this in mind.
One big downside to GKs however, is that as far as I know they don't have splinter chapters .etc. I'd 'have to' paint them silver/red/gold.

Hmm.

You never "have to" paint your models in any particular way. I've seen plenty of really impressive Red, Purple, and Green Grey Knight Schemes.

You can always come up with a reason for the alternate scheme in the background of your army, if it would help you enjoy them more.

 Eldarain wrote:
You never "have to" paint your models in any particular way. I've seen plenty of really impressive Red, Purple, and Green Grey Knight Schemes.

You can always come up with a reason for the alternate scheme in the background of your army, if it would help you enjoy them more.

I've seen some beautiful alternative Grey Knights myself, but I can't help but feel like I'm cheating If I display an army that is visually a GK recolour. 'oh well, there are the ______ excuse from _______'.

It's a silly personal thing for me, but such an army just feels sort of 'Mary Sue'- I love to be as original as possible.

Rustgob wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
You never "have to" paint your models in any particular way. I've seen plenty of really impressive Red, Purple, and Green Grey Knight Schemes.

You can always come up with a reason for the alternate scheme in the background of your army, if it would help you enjoy them more.

I've seen some beautiful alternative Grey Knights myself, but I can't help but feel like I'm cheating If I display an army that is visually a GK recolour. 'oh well, there are the ______ excuse from _______'.

It's a silly personal thing for me, but such an army just feels sort of 'Mary Sue'- I love to be as original as possible.

Well, you don't really *have* to be Grey Knight related at all. It can be your own custom chapter that has GK type weapons and organization (explain it fluff wise). Since you aren't using any special characters, that won't be too big a problem. I mean, as long as you use WYSIWYG for a clear image, and you fluff it well, I don't think anyone would have a problem with it. I had a personal chapter a while ago (long since sold it to a friend) that used the Space Wolf codex but was painted Green and Black.

Rustgob wrote:


Criteria from most to least important.

Must not rely on special characters as I like to 'tell my own story' with fluff.
Models must not look like hair-metal rejects (No 'Jain Zars!')
Army list must be full of options and flexible enough that I can make 'specialised armies'. (eg a list that would let me play shooty or melee depending upon equipment.)
Tanks are cool.
Low model count preferred as I am poor, but not required.

Well, if you can get past the "low model count" part, nothing fulfills the other criteria more than IG.

Dozens of different tanks, Several different competitive builds, and compatibility with a large variety of Allies.

Can look however you like, with no need to fit in to a set-chapter or color scheme. Additionally, fantastic Greenstuff/kitbashing opportunity to make your officers/veterans stand out

No need for special characters; though they are fun, most competitive builds leave them out.

Codex space marines don't HAVE to have a special character. And are very flexible, and are pretty forgiving.

 washout77 wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
You never "have to" paint your models in any particular way. I've seen plenty of really impressive Red, Purple, and Green Grey Knight Schemes.

You can always come up with a reason for the alternate scheme in the background of your army, if it would help you enjoy them more.

I've seen some beautiful alternative Grey Knights myself, but I can't help but feel like I'm cheating If I display an army that is visually a GK recolour. 'oh well, there are the ______ excuse from _______'.

It's a silly personal thing for me, but such an army just feels sort of 'Mary Sue'- I love to be as original as possible.

Well, you don't really *have* to be Grey Knight related at all. It can be your own custom chapter that has GK type weapons and organization (explain it fluff wise). Since you aren't using any special characters, that won't be too big a problem. I mean, as long as you use WYSIWYG for a clear image, and you fluff it well, I don't think anyone would have a problem with it. I had a personal chapter a while ago (long since sold it to a friend) that used the Space Wolf codex but was painted Green and Black.

Personally I like the idea of the Grey Knights and their wargear, I just have trouble coming up with plausible fluff for a chapter to have access to their esoteric gear and plethora of psychic powers. I'm afraid that people would see my GK based DIY chapter and dismiss it on the grounds that it's 'over the top' or 'godmoddish/cheesey'.

Worrysome is me.

as for the imperial guard, they are fantastic, but perhaps a little -too- high bodycount. I love the style but I model and paint VERY slowly.I'm certainly willing to consider the IG however.

With that in mind; are there any 6th ed armoured company rules?


Latly, It's 3:30am, I better get to sleep, haha. Thanks for the discussion so far!

Rustgob wrote:


as for the imperial guard, they are fantastic, but perhaps a little -too- high bodycount. I love the style but I model and paint VERY slowly.I'm certainly willing to consider the IG however.

With that in mind; are there any 6th ed armoured company rules?

Well, if you decide to run a tank/chimera-heavy list, I do think the bodycount is lessened to around 40-50 guardsmen on average, and guardsmen are reasonably easy to paint.

As per your question, yes, the Armored battle group rules are in Imperial Armor Volume 2

I wouldsay dark eldar their models are quite cheap in money and points and can have different builds with aloy of different HQ's to spice things up.

Orks.

As long as you avoid people's advice online.

Want a shooty list? Shoota Boys, Lootas, Warbikes, Dakkajets.

Want a Bashy list? Slugga Boys, Nobs, Stormboys.

Want a Vehicle list? Looted Wagons, Warbuggies, Battlewagons.

Want fun with artillery? Big Guns!

Want tank hunters who can assault afterwards with Meltabombs and Sticks with Rokkits strapped to them as Melee weapons? Tank Bustas.

Want an army of crazy pyros? Burna Boys.

Customize your HQ? Warboss is where its at. Warboss has a lot to choose from in my opinion. Mekboys usually fall into two categories; Kustom Force Field or Shokk Attack Gun, which is all well and good. Weirdboys are fun for me, but the only real option for him is Warphead.

There is a lot of good in Ork list building that is lost online. People will tell you that the points cost is too high or that other armies do it better. The only thing I'm currently missing my army is anti AV14, weapons.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
Orks.

As long as you avoid people's advice online.

Want a shooty list? Shoota Boys, Lootas, Warbikes, Dakkajets.

Want a Bashy list? Slugga Boys, Nobs, Stormboys.

Want a Vehicle list? Looted Wagons, Warbuggies, Battlewagons.

Want fun with artillery? Big Guns!

Want tank hunters who can assault afterwards with Meltabombs and Sticks with Rokkits strapped to them as Melee weapons? Tank Bustas.

Want an army of crazy pyros? Burna Boys.

Customize your HQ? Warboss is where its at. Warboss has a lot to choose from in my opinion. Mekboys usually fall into two categories; Kustom Force Field or Shokk Attack Gun, which is all well and good. Weirdboys are fun for me, but the only real option for him is Warphead.

There is a lot of good in Ork list building that is lost online. People will tell you that the points cost is too high or that other armies do it better. The only thing I'm currently missing my army is anti AV14, weapons.

[[So much for sleep, caffeine has me wide awake! ]]

I love the idea of Orks, I just think they seem a bit throttled by their codex. There's good flexibility in units but not in wargear options (for the most part) compared to some other (newer codex) armies. A main gripe for me considering any shooty Ork list is the lack of transport options for Elites, if I want to use heavy support for big guns/looted wagonz.

If low model count is a key, GK are a good choice there as pointed out above. And to hell with sticking to a certain color choice, paint what you want. I personally like my Blood Angels and don't often use named characters, especially in lower point games. Their Rhinoc based tanks are fast, they have some of the best jump infantry in the game, Death Company are funif not the most point effective, you can (though probably shouldn't ) deep strike Land Raiders, and you can get a flying Librarian Deadnought (cheesy to some, awesome to others). So there are a lot of builds and options within the codex, and they have many successor chapters so paint them as you want. Good luck with whatever you choose.

I tried to throw together some sort of passable fluff outline for a GK based DIY chapter.

- Chapter is based on an asteroidal base within field with unique minerals.
- Minerals exceedingly hard to refine.
- Refining is dangerous, requires many labourers.
- Super mineral produces exceptional non-Ceramite material.
- Non-Ceramite material used to create terminator armour and armour piercing weapons of astounding power. (Explains: The Aegis, Other Psychic Powers, Psycannon Bolts, Nemesis FWs)
- Rarity and strength of these 'relic armours' means few are ever deemed worthy of wielding them.
- Armour sanctified and protected by chapter librarians.
- Exceedingly strict training regime means few ever survive recruitment even by marine standards.
- Army goes to battle clad in the finest of armours.

If I were to use this army, weapons used would be slug-throwers (Bolters, Autocannon), no laser weaponry, and a heavy-armour leaning. The chapter would excel at fielding Land Raiders, Dreadnoughts and Terminators, but nearly completely lack any form of energy weapon. (I do love the idea of Psyfleman dreads!)

Any thoughts?


Edit: I'm also honestly toying with Vanilla Codex Marines; I'm not finding myself a fan of the lack of 'anti vehicle' weaponry of Grey Knight troop choices. They're forced to melee AV14.

You could look at Dark Angels.

Low model count (especially Deathwing), if you want to. Some nice options for a small, elite force.

Don't need SC's (though some builds are better with them), as there are nicely customizable regular HQs/Command squads..

Access to tanks

Not a 'cheesy-as-gak Ward-dex' (TM) (so less player hate). YMMV of course, but it tends to be his dexes and SW that ge the most Ire. I've not heard anyone whining about how OP DA are, yet..

Some flexibility in how you run the fluff (several successor chapters) and you can always make up your own successor chapter with their own focus.


Downside : codex costs fifty fething bucks US

 Ascalam wrote:
You could look at Dark Angels.

Low model count (especially Deathwing), if you want to. Some nice options for a small, elite force.

Don't need SC's (though some builds are better with them), as there are nicely customizable regular HQs/Command squads..

Access to tanks

Not a 'cheesy-as-gak Ward-dex' (TM) (so less player hate). YMMV of course, but it tends to be his dexes and SW that ge the most Ire. I've not heard anyone whining about how OP DA are, yet..

Some flexibility in how you run the fluff (several successor chapters) and you can always make up your own successor chapter with their own focus.


Downside : codex costs fifty fething bucks US

Successor chapters always give a ton of flexibility, but I didn't really think of DA. I have yet to really see the new codex. I shall have to take a look, see if someone has a copy I can borrow; or maybe I can get an armybuilder file! Deathwing might be very promising.

Edit: Ugh- I located an Army Builder file to have a poke around - I require Azrael or Belial to field a Deathwing Army. That's out! (even if Dark Angels in general aren't.)

Doesn't stop you from fielding a combined force though.

Deathwing with a few tac squads or bikers as support.

I'm new to DA myself, still getting a handle on it..

Though originally broadcast for 5th Ed these are still relevant. Might I recommend:

http://theindependentcharacters.com/blog/?p=1457

And

http://theindependentcharacters.com/blog/?p=1460

A 500pt Space Marine Bike force seems to be relatively kind on the wallet too, at £88 for 11 bikes. Add some commander bitz and special weapons, it's a working army.

Orks are great, but you mentioned you were low on money so it probably isn't the army for you. Battlewagons are sick if you like tanks, and they are easy to paint and customize.

Also if you're going in the Marine direction I heard SW are under-priced and have some good choices.

 cox.dan2 wrote:
Orks are great, but you mentioned you were low on money so it probably isn't the army for you. Battlewagons are sick if you like tanks, and they are easy to paint and customize.

Also if you're going in the Marine direction I heard SW are under-priced and have some good choices.

Realistically I absolutely love Orks. The background and sheer customizability are fantastic, I just find their codex incredibly annoying, as It's hard to make a mechanised list; If you want big guns on your vehicles, you need to give up heavy support slots to move your elites around.

If, however, I wanted to make a footslogger army, I think I'd be all over them.

Rustgob wrote:
Tanks are cool.

IG using the FW Armored Battlegroup list.

/thread

 Peregrine wrote:

Rustgob wrote:
Tanks are cool.

IG using the FW Armored Battlegroup list.

/thread

Unfortunately, I can't get my greasy mitts on the rules; I'm not keen to purchase the IA1V2 book until I've had a peek to see if it's what I want; Otherwise, hells yes. I'd love an army comprised entirely (or nearly entirely) of tanks.

I'd say blood angels. they can have assault marines as troops, have the storm raven, and are versatile. you can make a successor chapter. and if you want a chapter master ally with vanilla marines.

Grey Knights or Codex: Space Marines.

I dunno, s7 rending is about all the anti-vehicle I need. 7+6=13 plus the rend makes a damage any way you spin it. Sure you're hoping on rends, but with a high rate of fire I don't see the issue. Assault cannons are the same way, but only s6, and they still have a pretty solid chance of wrecking a Land Raider...

with specials I would have said GK , because coteaz is too good not to be taken . without I say necron . you can make list around flyers , you can make a list of lots of ground troops with awesome support units like teleporting ap2 +2wounding flamers . you have wrights , destroyers lords , mindshackles and ap2 weapons striking at I , to do melee.

if you dont like the thought of Silver Grey knights you coudl use the 'dex and make a force of pre-heresy 1k Sons. Lots of psyker-stuff to play with.

I quite like a lot of the Blood Angels codex, It's just a shame that the 'Assault Transport' requirement makes Assault Squads in Rhinos so lame.

Just to summarise some suggestions and how I 'grade them' personally.

From Most Liked to Least Liked, and reasons.

Armoured Battlegroup -
Pros: Very low model count, Tanks are cool. -
Cons: Semi-High cost, Low model count (on Tabletop), I don't have access to the rules.

Codex Space Marines -
Pros: Incredibly flexible in both loadout and fluff/background. -
Cons: Doesn't feature some newer rules. Everyone plays SPEHS MEHRENS.

Orks -
Pros: Do anything and everything if you build the force right. Seemingly perfect. -
Cons: Major, Major transport shortage if you want to use a fully mechanised army, High model count.

Imperial Guard -
Pros: Do everything I want, great gritty realistic look to most kits. -
Cons: Huge Model Count, Expensive, Can't build a 'weapon theme army' as there's always a bolter or lasweapon somewhere.

Necrons -
Pros: Easy to paint quickly, Great Looking vehicles, Lower Model Count. -
Cons: Codex still lacks real flexibility. Too many units do only one thing and cannot be specialised, Models (while good) are uninspiring.

Dark Angels -
Pros: Space Marines with extra terminators, bikes and Plasma. I love Plasma. -
Cons: Special Characters needed for Deathwing/Ravenwing (LAME! Codex Vanilla Marines gets troop
bikes easier)

Blood Angels -
Pros: Flexible with some unique wargear, Lots of Dreadnoughts (I love!). -
Cons: Matthew Ward, Semi-restrictive background fluff.

Grey Knights -
Pros: Super-low model count, awesome kits, fancy wargear. -
Cons: Least flexibility for DIY of any army, hard to pack Anti-AV14 into 500-750pts without melee. Too jack of all trades.