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Hey guys, well i ran into my local power gamer for the first time last night, got beaten pretty badly, his army was 2 10 man purifier squads, henchman squad with 3 plasma cannons (which he added after he saw my list), 8ish termies with libby all with hammers (also added after he saw my termies), dreadknight and psyflemen dreads to finish!

now this guy wants a rematch next week, which i accepted but i want some help choosing the most WAAC list i can out of the models i have, but unfortunately Ive only played 2 games in 6th so i am not too sure what the competitive units are. Here is where you come in!i will list all the units i have and if you guys could give me a general idea of how to get the most power possible out of a list. Now, you dont have to build me a list, just a general idea of the most powerful units and what ones work well with others (i will do all the number crunching)

i would like to use the BA or SM codex (or both) as i currently have both those codex's

Without further adeu, my Units:

Dante (or sm captain with JP)
Tycho (or captain with combi melta)
Honour guard (either jp or no jp)
Termie Chaplainx2
Chaplain
Librarian x3
Motf (harness &servitors)
Termie Captain (sword and storm bolter)
Termie Captain (Lightning claws)
Motf conversion beamer

Thunderhammer termies x 15
Lightning termies x 5
tactical termies x 20 (assorted cyclones heavy flamers and AC's)
2 Dreadnought's (TLLC+HF)
Dreadnought AC+SB
Sanguinary guard
Furioso dreadnought/Librarian dread
sanguinary preist JP
sanguinary preist
Brother Corbollo

Tactial squad x 2
Scouts (40 scouts with assorted weapons, all combos available)

Assualt squad (either jp or no jp)
Assualt squad (jp)
Assualt squad (no jp)
6 landspeeders with MM & HF
2 landspeeder typhoons HB
9 scout bikers
4 sm bikers

2 Landraiders (godhammer)
1 redeemer
1 crusader
2 vindicators
thunderfire cannon
stormraven gunship

3 razorbacks/rhinos

Well TH/SS terminators are still really good, especially when combined with Vulcan or a Librarian with precience (blood angels only). Other than that I can't help much as I don't play with or against either list at a competetive level.

The easiest set up would be Codex Marines

Libby
Vulkan
10 Hammernators
2x 10 Tacticals in Rhinos (multi-melta, melta, combi-melta)
10 Scouts w/ Telion
2 Vindicators
TFC
Aegis w/ quad gun

If you can swing it, proxy those bikes as Attack Bikes with multi-meltas. That's a solid generalist list.

With BA you could do jumper Libby, 20 jumpers, Sanguard, 2x5 assault marines in Razors (las/plas), 2 Vindicators, Storm Raven and a few DC riding inside as potential objective clearers.

Thanks guys, much appreciated!

@chumbalaya i actually do have 3 attack bikes with mm's i forgot to include them!

what do you think would be more competitive? the ba list or the vulkan one?

in the vulkan list im guessing the hammernators bubble wrap the defensive units while the vindicators and rhinos move forward?

First of all, adding units after seeing an opponents list is considered cheating in many clubs...

if you were wanting to go blood angels it wouldn't be to dissimilar from the vanilla list given above id go with:

Tycho (cos he makes your army Ld 10 just for being there and he's a bit of beast in combat)

Assault marines in rhinos with priests with power axes if possible, to give you some protection while moving up the board plus their Fast vehicles so turn one you could be in his deployment.

Vindicators cos you just wanna eat his terminators for breakfast

Stormraven just cos its funny to watch people rage at it and it packs a punch.

Terminators in what ever form you want with terminator chaplains cos re-rolling on the charge and being fearless is just awesome. and heck put em in a redeemer if you've got the points cos it can burn those purifiers up good and proper.

and why not if you can squeeze em in then two furioso dreads cos armour 13 dreads are just funny. even better in a drop pod then it draws all the attention away from the rest of your army when he's got those suckers sat in front of him!

good luck!

thanks FreddieTau6, i like the idea of that list quite a bit, why assault marines in rhinos? arnt they handicapped even more with the new disembarkation rules?

now for the librarian, divination is the best for BA? what about for Vanilla? i went with telepathy last time. also is the epistolary upgrade worth it this edition?

ill go away and build a couple lists out of your suggestions and post them here for your critique!

This guy cheated to beat you. My guess is he will cheat to beat you again. In the future make him show you his army list before either of you unpack, have it in writing printed out for you to view over. If this guy wants to be competitive, make him print out a complete army list like at a competitive event so that he doesn't douche you again.

Okay this is what i build for a 1750 Blood angels list based off of FreddieTau6's suggestions, how does it look?

HQ
Tycho
Librarian - Sheild + Divination power
ELITE
Furioso Librarian Dreadnought - Divination
Terminators x 5, THSS
Sanguinary Priest
Brother corbollo
TROOPS
Assault Sqd x 9, PF, Mg, Rhino
Assault Sqd x 8, PF, Mg, Rhino
HEAVY
Storm Raven, MM&TLAC
Vindicator
Vindicator

libby and sang priest ride in the rhinos, corbollo librarian dread and termies go in the storm raven

i will go and make a Vanilla one as soon as i can get to my copy of the codex

Vendablefall wrote:
Okay this is what i build for a 1750 Blood angels list based off of FreddieTau6's suggestions, how does it look?

HQ
Tycho
Librarian - Sheild + Divination power
ELITE
Furioso Librarian Dreadnought - Divination
Terminators x 5, THSS
Sanguinary Priest
Brother corbollo
TROOPS
Assault Sqd x 9, PF, Mg, Rhino
Assault Sqd x 8, PF, Mg, Rhino
HEAVY
Storm Raven, MM&TLAC
Vindicator
Vindicator

libby and sang priest ride in the rhinos, corbollo librarian dread and termies go in the storm raven

i will go and make a Vanilla one as soon as i can get to my copy of the codex

What type of mission are you guys going to run ? I'm not a big fan of vindicators, I would ditch one and add another scoring unit .

we tried relic last week, so one of the other 2 (im not sure what they are exactly)

what do you suggest in terms or a scoring unit?

also is it worth taking 2 libbys?

Make sure to roll for mission after armies are chosen. Just follow the Fighting a Battle chapter to the letter and you'll be fine. I suggest asking someone else to set up your terrain if you can. The terrain density setup method is good, but provides a bad player opportunities for douchiness.

... unpack extra models you won't use, let him change his list, then put them back in the case. If you have a pre-printed list of what you're playing with then there's no scope for him to complain is there, as he'd have to admit to tailoring based on sight of your models.

Nothing wrong with having other people's units in your bag that you unpack and then put back in again ...

 ruminator wrote:
... unpack extra models you won't use, let him change his list, then put them back in the case. If you have a pre-printed list of what you're playing with then there's no scope for him to complain is there, as he'd have to admit to tailoring based on sight of your models.

Nothing wrong with having other people's units in your bag that you unpack and then put back in again ...

Hahaha

How bout proxy a Belial list with lots terminators. Nail those PCs with CMLs and maybe typhoons early, then get some terms into those purifiers.

If I'd made a list that I was going to stick to, chose to battle an opponent, then that opponent looked at my list and promptly fielded a hard counter for it without me having seen his list beforehand, I would have packed up. The WAAC attitude and complete lack of sportsmanship in such a move isn't only cheating, it's cowardly. He's not a powergamer, he's a scumbag.

I hope you wipe the smirk of his grubby little cheating face.

Next time, the first thing you should both do is exchange lists before any models hit the tabletop, that way he can't amend his force to counter yours like he did last time.

Hey guys, well i ran into my local power gamer for the first time last night, got beaten pretty badly, his army was 2 10 man purifier squads, henchman squad with 3 plasma cannons (which he added after he saw my list), 8ish termies with libby all with hammers (also added after he saw my termies), dreadknight and psyflemen dreads to finish!

How should this be a power-gaming list? Power gaming seems to be overrated.

i only put the assault marines in a rhino because A. they move quicker. B. they only have to weather one round of shooting before they can charge. instead of being shot to gak while they jump up the board


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i only put the assault marines in a rhino because A. they move quicker. B. they only have to weather one round of shooting before they can charge. instead of being shot to gak while they jump up the board

Well, I'd at least include hammernators.
Assaul tterminators are crazy effective still, add some lightning claws in to the mix and it's reall good. Then transport them in a Land Raider.

I think the only way to win against this guy is to refuse to play him.

Vendablefall wrote:
Okay this is what i build for a 1750 Blood angels list based off of FreddieTau6's suggestions, how does it look?

HQ
Tycho
Librarian - Sheild + Divination power
ELITE
Furioso Librarian Dreadnought - Divination
Terminators x 5, THSS
Sanguinary Priest
Brother corbollo
TROOPS
Assault Sqd x 9, PF, Mg, Rhino
Assault Sqd x 8, PF, Mg, Rhino
HEAVY
Storm Raven, MM&TLAC
Vindicator
Vindicator

libby and sang priest ride in the rhinos, corbollo librarian dread and termies go in the storm raven

i will go and make a Vanilla one as soon as i can get to my copy of the codex

2 Troops at 1750 is really bad. You need 3 at least, 4 ideally.

Running a hybrid style list with BA is usually your best bet. Jumpers can't lose their mobility, while Razors/Vindicators are fast and shooty with decent protection from Shield of Sanguinius or normal cover. Mephiston is also a viable option, hiding behind tanks or cover as he closes in.

I really. Really hope you beat this guy. He sounds like a right prat. Let us know how it goes.

 Chumbalaya wrote:
The easiest set up would be Codex Marines

Libby
Vulkan
10 Hammernators
2x 10 Tacticals in Rhinos (multi-melta, melta, combi-melta)
10 Scouts w/ Telion
2 Vindicators
TFC
Aegis w/ quad gun

If you can swing it, proxy those bikes as Attack Bikes with multi-meltas. That's a solid generalist list.

I know for a fact this list works well against most any enemy you will come across and is a great build.

From wrote:
This guy cheated to beat you. My guess is he will cheat to beat you again. In the future make him show you his army list before either of you unpack, have it in writing printed out for you to view over. If this guy wants to be competitive, make him print out a complete army list like at a competitive event so that he doesn't douche you again.

This.

Why do people feel the need to do crap like that to win? It's just 40K. I've lost 60% of my games with BA, and I have never once felt the need to cheat. Or even squabble over millimeters. If I'm owned, I'm owned.

Martel732 wrote:
Why do people feel the need to do crap like that to win? It's just 40K. I've lost 60% of my games with BA, and I have never once felt the need to cheat. Or even squabble over millimeters. If I'm owned, I'm owned.

This!
I personally lose all the time. Currently, out of the guys I can play against only 2-3/5 are worse than me in the sense I can say I am likely to win. To the other two, I lose almost each time.
Don't care, as long as a fighting chance exists, I fight!

Vendablefall wrote:
Hey guys, well i ran into my local power gamer for the first time last night, got beaten pretty badly, his army was 2 10 man purifier squads, henchman squad with 3 plasma cannons (which he added after he saw my list), 8ish termies with libby all with hammers (also added after he saw my termies), dreadknight and psyflemen dreads to finish!

now this guy wants a rematch next week, which i accepted but i want some help choosing the most WAAC list i can out of the models i have, but unfortunately Ive only played 2 games in 6th so i am not too sure what the competitive units are. Here is where you come in!i will list all the units i have and if you guys could give me a general idea of how to get the most power possible out of a list. Now, you dont have to build me a list, just a general idea of the most powerful units and what ones work well with others (i will do all the number crunching)

i would like to use the BA or SM codex (or both) as i currently have both those codex's

Without further adeu, my Units:

Dante (or sm captain with JP)
Tycho (or captain with combi melta)
Honour guard (either jp or no jp)
Termie Chaplainx2
Chaplain
Librarian x3
Motf (harness &servitors)
Termie Captain (sword and storm bolter)
Termie Captain (Lightning claws)
Motf conversion beamer

Thunderhammer termies x 15
Lightning termies x 5
tactical termies x 20 (assorted cyclones heavy flamers and AC's)
2 Dreadnought's (TLLC+HF)
Dreadnought AC+SB
Sanguinary guard
Furioso dreadnought/Librarian dread
sanguinary preist JP
sanguinary preist
Brother Corbollo

Tactial squad x 2
Scouts (40 scouts with assorted weapons, all combos available)

Assualt squad (either jp or no jp)
Assualt squad (jp)
Assualt squad (no jp)
6 landspeeders with MM & HF
2 landspeeder typhoons HB
9 scout bikers
4 sm bikers

2 Landraiders (godhammer)
1 redeemer
1 crusader
2 vindicators
thunderfire cannon
stormraven gunship

3 razorbacks/rhinos

This guy isn't WAAC, he's a piece of gak. I suggest you spam high AP and whatever flyers you can field. Meching up would be helpful, too. Psycannons can't do much vs Landraiders and Stormravens, and he's relying pretty heavily on assault with that stuff...

Regardless of what he brings from that ridiculous codex, AP2 is going to be your best friend.

Grey Knights and Space Wolves, making marine players of lesser chapters cry in their beer for two editions now.

His list only has one troop choice (terminators), unless you forgot something. Odds are he either has Crowe or Coteaz, and he looks like he has to have an inquisitor of some sort either way, so it's probably not Crowe, which means that he had a max of two scoring units... on the Football mission, and you lost.

My advice is to not worry about needing help making a list at all. You have other, bigger issues that need to be fixed first.

Step 1: Don't let people change their lists AFTER seeing yours. It's reinforcing bad behaviour.
Step 2: Get more than a couple games of 6th edition under your belt before you get too hung up on this. If someone is lame enough to do the above, they're may be cheating you on rules also.
Step 3: Don't think that your list is some magic thing that will auto-win you games. List composition is important, but it's not everything.

Martel732 wrote:
Grey Knights and Space Wolves, making marine players of lesser chapters cry in their beer for two editions now.

Lesser chapters? Space Vikings? Um no not really.

I play vs grey knights all the time as C:SM and there are 3 things they hate to see.

10 TH/SS terms
Vindicators
And most importantly a Libby with NULL ZONE!!

Forcing him to reroll 5++ is deadly. Plus grey knights don't have much to get through 2+ armour.

Sam918