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pretty clear that RAW is that all units embarked on a transport that must start in reserves do not count towards the 50% limit

That's how I am going to play it.

Mjölnyr wrote:
@Akar
You dont have to deploy anything on the ground given the right circumstances:

Im perfectly aware of this, If you re-read my post, I attempted to use the words could and should where relevant. I was just showing the other side of the issue, relevant to the OP and why people think one way or the other. It generally helps to know where they are coming from when it comes up in a game.

As for the FAQ, I stand by what I said! The FAQ still makes no direct mention of Dedicated Transports vs. Transports. It's simply not there. It's something that both sides will use as a reference. One side will say that Transports covers all vehicles Dedicated or not. The other side will say that it only applies to Dedicated transports. I also did quite clearly add that I do not know if Valkyries were Dedicated Transports or something else, or both, and that they may have indirectly addressed it. Even if they did, there will still be people who will say that it's limited to Drop Pods and Valkyries since those are the only two addressed.

I don't care which way people play it. It doesn't affect my game, and my lists aren't affected by it one way or the other.

It's actually quite clear. Transports must include Dedicated Transports. Why? Where are the rules for embarking on to a Dedicated Transport? Oh, with the Transport rules? S its a Transport?

Oh, okay.

rigeld2 wrote:
It's actually quite clear. Transports must include Dedicated Transports. Why? Where are the rules for embarking on to a Dedicated Transport? Oh, with the Transport rules? S its a Transport?

Oh, okay.

Exactly this.

the FaQ tells us anything embarked on any vehicle that must start in reserve is not counted for the 50%.

 Purifier wrote:
Ok, from what has been gathered in this thread, here's an example.

your army is:
Warlord (ic)
Champion (ic)
Space Marines Squad
Special Weapons Squad
Heavy Weapons Squad
Jump Pack Squad
Dreadnought
Drop Pod
Stormraven

Right, so you decide to place:
Warlord
Special Weapons Squad
Dreadnought
in the Stormraven

That means since it's a flyer, that is all placed aside and not counted.

You place Space Marine Squad in your drop pod. Since it must deepstrike, again, you take it aside.

Now you have a Heavy Weapons Squad, an IC Champion and a jump pack squad left.

That's 3 units, even if you want to field the Heavy Weapons and Champon together and roll for the reserve roll together, at this point they still count as 2 units, rounding up you can reserve 2.

Please correct me with rules quotes if you believe this example to be flawed.

That is correct.

If you were to drop the jump packs for a drop pod as well or added another Pod for the Devastators, your entire army could start off the table, assuming the Champion is also in the Pod

 DeathReaper wrote:

the FaQ tells us anything embarked on any vehicle that must start in reserve is not counted for the 50%.

And this is one interpretation, not the one interpretation. Which is all I've said. The OP has posted this question after the FAQ has been out, so clearly not everyone sees this as the only interpretation.

 Akar wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

the FaQ tells us anything embarked on any vehicle that must start in reserve is not counted for the 50%.

And this is one interpretation, not the one interpretation. Which is all I've said. The OP has posted this question after the FAQ has been out, so clearly not everyone sees this as the only interpretation.

It is the only correct interpretation, as the FAQ literally says:


GW BRB FAQ Page 8:
"Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in Reserves?
A: No."

Are the units in a transport vehicle (Like a Stormraven) that MUST start in reserve? (Yes the unit is embarked on the SR. The SR is a flyer and must start in reserves).

Therefore the unit that starts in a transport vehicle are not counted towards the number of units that can be placed in Reserves.

No direct mention of Dedicated Transports therefore it means any transport.

No direct mention of Transport vehicles at all actually.

"Transported in *a* vehicle" .. any vehicle. Obviously the vehicle must be capable of transporting units, however it does not rule out dedicated OR non-dedicated transport vehicles of any kind, merely ANY vehicle that has a unit transported inside of it.

So now, "No direct mention of" something means that it is included in the generic?

Units transported in a vehicle that must start in reserve = any unit transported in any vehicle that is capable of transporting units and which must start in reserve ..

so yes in this particular case the term "a vehicle" is pretty generic and includes all vehicles that fit the requirements for not counting towards reserve limits.
This would included dedicated transports AND non-dedicated transports (that *must* start in reserve).

 Akar wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

the FaQ tells us anything embarked on any vehicle that must start in reserve is not counted for the 50%.

And this is one interpretation, not the one interpretation. Which is all I've said. The OP has posted this question after the FAQ has been out, so clearly not everyone sees this as the only interpretation.

Nope, it is literally the only one that actually follows the rules

It refers to any transport, not just the subset of Dedicated transports.

Also, how many questions are raised that the FAQ's deal with every day on this forum?
Just because someone thinks it might be different doesn't make it so.

How something so clear in the FAQ required 42 replies and counting is mind-boggling.

On this topic but slightly off, what exactly does deathwing assault count as?

Does it factor into reserves or does it do it's own thing and ignore the reserve rules?

I.e. list of 2 squads of deathwing and a land speeder. Does the land speeder that chooses to deep strike by normal means come in by deep strike or does it have to start on the table?

Assume the list just has the 3 units, 2 deathwing terminator squads and a regular land speeder.

Do reserves count to reserves?
DWA is just deep striking reserves with a few extra rules.

 sudojoe wrote:
On this topic but slightly off, what exactly does deathwing assault count as?

Does it factor into reserves or does it do it's own thing and ignore the reserve rules?

I.e. list of 2 squads of deathwing and a land speeder. Does the land speeder that chooses to deep strike by normal means come in by deep strike or does it have to start on the table?

Assume the list just has the 3 units, 2 deathwing terminator squads and a regular land speeder.

It's been argued back and forth.
Side A says since the restriction on what can be put in reserve doesn't happen until after you declare they are Deathwinging, then they must start in reserve and don't count.
Side B says, since they can start on the table and the rule does not specify they do not count...they count.

 Happyjew wrote:

 sudojoe wrote:
On this topic but slightly off, what exactly does deathwing assault count as?

Does it factor into reserves or does it do it's own thing and ignore the reserve rules?

I.e. list of 2 squads of deathwing and a land speeder. Does the land speeder that chooses to deep strike by normal means come in by deep strike or does it have to start on the table?

Assume the list just has the 3 units, 2 deathwing terminator squads and a regular land speeder.

It's been argued back and forth.
Side A says since the restriction on what can be put in reserve doesn't happen until after you declare they are Deathwinging, then they must start in reserve and don't count.
Side B says, since they can start on the table and the rule does not specify they do not count...they count.

The above is an accurate summation of 20 pages or argument over two threads

I am on Side B, mainly because the only way to get to Side A is through a very, very convoluted reading of the rules that is definitely akin to Easter Egg hunting

Just bear in mind the whole "you lose if you have no models on the table at the end of any game turn" rule... A full flyer army (cronwing) auto looses turn 1 as flyers don't roll for reserves until turn 2!

 Happyjew wrote:

 sudojoe wrote:
On this topic but slightly off, what exactly does deathwing assault count as?

Does it factor into reserves or does it do it's own thing and ignore the reserve rules?

I.e. list of 2 squads of deathwing and a land speeder. Does the land speeder that chooses to deep strike by normal means come in by deep strike or does it have to start on the table?

Assume the list just has the 3 units, 2 deathwing terminator squads and a regular land speeder.

It's been argued back and forth.
Side A says since the restriction on what can be put in reserve doesn't happen until after you declare they are Deathwinging, then they must start in reserve and don't count.
Side B says, since they can start on the table and the rule does not specify they do not count...they count.

Left out side C: They do count towards the restriction, but since DWA units can always DS, DWA units are allowed to exceed 50% of reserves. So if you use DWA you can reserve any and all DWA units but may not be able to reserve anything else.

barnowl wrote:
Left out side C: They do count towards the restriction, but since DWA units can always DS, DWA units are allowed to exceed 50% of reserves. So if you use DWA you can reserve any and all DWA units but may not be able to reserve anything else.

Yea, that is not what DWA says. There is no "Always" in the DWA rule.

 DeathReaper wrote:

barnowl wrote:
Left out side C: They do count towards the restriction, but since DWA units can always DS, DWA units are allowed to exceed 50% of reserves. So if you use DWA you can reserve any and all DWA units but may not be able to reserve anything else.

Yea, that is not what DWA says. There is no "Always" in the DWA rule.

As above. THe word "always " is startlingly absent

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

barnowl wrote:
Left out side C: They do count towards the restriction, but since DWA units can always DS, DWA units are allowed to exceed 50% of reserves. So if you use DWA you can reserve any and all DWA units but may not be able to reserve anything else.

Yea, that is not what DWA says. There is no "Always" in the DWA rule.

As above. THe word "always " is startlingly absent

Have to stick my nose back in the DA codex. Though it was still there, and was seeing that argument in one of the other threads on it.

GW is changing the rules for Teminator armour from the long spiel to Deep Strike, Relentless, Bulky, cannot Overwatch (might be missing something not sure going off of memory).

 Happyjew wrote:
GW is changing the rules for Teminator armour from the long spiel to Deep Strike, Relentless, Bulky, cannot Overwatch (might be missing something not sure going off of memory).

Cannot Overwatch?

That is news to me, where did you see that?

 Happyjew wrote:
GW is changing the rules for Teminator armour from the long spiel to Deep Strike, Relentless, Bulky, cannot Overwatch (might be missing something not sure going off of memory).

Bolded is incorrect unless I'm missing something in the Chaos codex.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
GW is changing the rules for Teminator armour from the long spiel to Deep Strike, Relentless, Bulky, cannot Overwatch (might be missing something not sure going off of memory).

Bolded is incorrect unless I'm missing something in the Chaos codex.

oh i bet he meant Sweeping Advance.

Yeah meant Sweeping Advance. I'm working on 4 hours of sleep and trying to wind down after an 11 hour workday. Need sleep, but I'm hitting the bar with some friends in an hour...