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Ok, so this is my half-baked idea. Feel free to rip it to shreds, or put your own ideas in. I just have a problem with how all the MEQ codices rely on psychers as their main HQ. It's silly, there should be a good reason to bring the Captain/Wolf Lord/Whatever. Without the psychic buffs and debuffs, they're always going to be second fiddle in competitive lists. So here are my ideas for special rules, with no points costs or stat changes.

The Captain may choose one of these special rules during the list building process (i.e. they will cost points to make sure people can't swap them out at a whim).

1) Tactical Experience
The Captain may choose 1 infantry unit before the start of battle to be scoring. These retain their original FOC slot.
2) Nemesis
The SM player may select one character from the opposing player's army. The Captain gains +1 attack if he challenges this character. If the selected character is the opposing player's Warlord, the SM Captain will retain the +1 attack, and earn a victory point for killing the character in a challenge, on top of the usual Slay the Warlord point.
3) Power Hungry
If accompanied by a troops choice, the Captain and the squad he is in, may score an objective, even if an enemy unit is contesting.
4) No Guts No Glory
If the Captain is alive, the SM player may score the First Blood victory point, regardless whether or not the opposing player has already claimed it.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Ok, so this is my half-baked idea. Feel free to rip it to shreds, or put your own ideas in. I just have a problem with how all the MEQ codices rely on psychers as their main HQ. It's silly, there should be a good reason to bring the Captain/Wolf Lord/Whatever. Without the psychic buffs and debuffs, they're always going to be second fiddle in competitive lists. So here are my ideas for special rules, with no points costs or stat changes.

The Captain may choose one of these special rules during the list building process (i.e. they will cost points to make sure people can't swap them out at a whim).

1) Tactical Experience
The Captain may choose 1 infantry unit before the start of battle to be scoring. These retain their original FOC slot.
2) Nemesis
The SM player may select one character from the opposing player's army. The Captain gains +1 attack if he challenges this character. If the selected character is the opposing player's Warlord, the SM Captain will retain the +1 attack, and earn a victory point for killing the character in a challenge, on top of the usual Slay the Warlord point.
3) Power Hungry
If accompanied by a troops choice, the Captain and the squad he is in, may score an objective, even if an enemy unit is contesting.
4) No Guts No Glory
If the Captain is alive, the SM player may score the First Blood victory point, regardless whether or not the opposing player has already claimed it.

Your talking about the HQs choices right? If so what makes them useful is that they are cheaper then Masters and only lose the orbital bombardment ability.

FenixZero wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:
Ok, so this is my half-baked idea. Feel free to rip it to shreds, or put your own ideas in. I just have a problem with how all the MEQ codices rely on psychers as their main HQ. It's silly, there should be a good reason to bring the Captain/Wolf Lord/Whatever. Without the psychic buffs and debuffs, they're always going to be second fiddle in competitive lists. So here are my ideas for special rules, with no points costs or stat changes.

The Captain may choose one of these special rules during the list building process (i.e. they will cost points to make sure people can't swap them out at a whim).

1) Tactical Experience
The Captain may choose 1 infantry unit before the start of battle to be scoring. These retain their original FOC slot.
2) Nemesis
The SM player may select one character from the opposing player's army. The Captain gains +1 attack if he challenges this character. If the selected character is the opposing player's Warlord, the SM Captain will retain the +1 attack, and earn a victory point for killing the character in a challenge, on top of the usual Slay the Warlord point.
3) Power Hungry
If accompanied by a troops choice, the Captain and the squad he is in, may score an objective, even if an enemy unit is contesting.
4) No Guts No Glory
If the Captain is alive, the SM player may score the First Blood victory point, regardless whether or not the opposing player has already claimed it.

Your talking about the HQs choices right? If so what makes them useful is that they are cheaper then Masters and only lose the orbital bombardment ability.

And they are still useless except for making bikes scoring. It's always better to take a librarian.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

And they are still useless except for making bikes scoring. It's always better to take a librarian.

That's my point, there's no reason to make them cheaper, because the Librarian will still be better. They need something to make them stand out.

Agreed that something needs to be done with the Marine captain to make them relevant. Even the DA one won't seem much play with the Special Characters and Librarian being better choices.

If Libby's become 65pts in the new book, they'd have to drop Captains to about 50-60pts for players to really consider them.

Or, make them 60-70pts but give them a simple rule like all units from codex space marines within 12" may use the Captain's Leadership value instead of their own, a al Fantasy.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

And they are still useless except for making bikes scoring. It's always better to take a librarian.

That's my point, there's no reason to make them cheaper, because the Librarian will still be better. They need something to make them stand out.

With captains, they are slightly better in CC, won't get eaten by the warp from failing phychic tests, and can have bikes as troops. Pretty badass for any white scars fans.
They can have melta bombs for cheap anti-tank melee (on a bike, that's a very real 2nd turn assault ), they can have artificer armour for a cheaper 2+ save, and can have THAT on a bike, and will be allowed to make sweeping advances (I've used this to great effect in several games against cowardly hordes of infantry, they tend to get massacred).
They can take a TH, a relic blade or a powerfist, even a storm shield (TH/SS artificer armour on bike is cheese). They still have a 5+ invuln even if you don't take any equipment, and the invuln is the main reason for termie armour besides its 2+ save, and with artificer being cheaper and more effective, terminator armour is kinda redundant on them.

There ya go, the reasons captains are better than librarians, with a bit of a rant

Selym wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

And they are still useless except for making bikes scoring. It's always better to take a librarian.

That's my point, there's no reason to make them cheaper, because the Librarian will still be better. They need something to make them stand out.

With captains, they are slightly better in CC, won't get eaten by the warp from failing phychic tests, and can have bikes as troops. Pretty badass for any white scars fans.
They can have melta bombs for cheap anti-tank melee (on a bike, that's a very real 2nd turn assault ), they can have artificer armour for a cheaper 2+ save, and can have THAT on a bike, and will be allowed to make sweeping advances (I've used this to great effect in several games against cowardly hordes of infantry, they tend to get massacred).
They can take a TH, a relic blade or a powerfist, even a storm shield (TH/SS artificer armour on bike is cheese). They still have a 5+ invuln even if you don't take any equipment, and the invuln is the main reason for termie armour besides its 2+ save, and with artificer being cheaper and more effective, terminator armour is kinda redundant on them.

There ya go, the reasons captains are better than librarians, with a bit of a rant

A point to highlight, they have a 4+ invul (Iron Halo) as default, not a 5+. EVEN BETTER FOR THEM

 Lord Magnus wrote:

Selym wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

And they are still useless except for making bikes scoring. It's always better to take a librarian.

That's my point, there's no reason to make them cheaper, because the Librarian will still be better. They need something to make them stand out.

With captains, they are slightly better in CC, won't get eaten by the warp from failing phychic tests, and can have bikes as troops. Pretty badass for any white scars fans.
They can have melta bombs for cheap anti-tank melee (on a bike, that's a very real 2nd turn assault ), they can have artificer armour for a cheaper 2+ save, and can have THAT on a bike, and will be allowed to make sweeping advances (I've used this to great effect in several games against cowardly hordes of infantry, they tend to get massacred).
They can take a TH, a relic blade or a powerfist, even a storm shield (TH/SS artificer armour on bike is cheese). They still have a 5+ invuln even if you don't take any equipment, and the invuln is the main reason for termie armour besides its 2+ save, and with artificer being cheaper and more effective, terminator armour is kinda redundant on them.

There ya go, the reasons captains are better than librarians, with a bit of a rant

A point to highlight, they have a 4+ invul (Iron Halo) as default, not a 5+. EVEN BETTER FOR THEM

Jesus-esq halos FTW!

Foot Captains aren't really that good, IMO, you need to give them a Bike, Jump Pack, or Termie armor, and put them into a unit of the same type of unit to give that unit a lot of extra punch.
They also unlock the Command squad, which can be pretty sweet.

Granted, they give very little utility apart from that, unlike the Libby