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Made in ca
Wing Commander






My one criticism is the Japanese theme comes off really, really thick at times.

Darkstrider's name is Myamoto, after Miyamoto Musashi, famous early 17th century Samurai.

The Fire Caste has a "Way of the Warrior," which is the literal translation of Bushido.

There's constant references to a "Rising Sun," which is a term commonly associated with the Empire of Japan, and the collectors edition basically has the Japanese flag on the front.

It's a wee bit thick at times, but the Tau remain distinct enough to not just be "Space Japanese," but sometimes I prefer my references a little less...overt.

Therefore, I conclude, Valve should announce Half Life 2: Episode 3.
 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





 Harriticus wrote:
Though it's unfortunate the Demirug aren't mentioned once. I think GW wanted to erase them from the lore. Lots of new races are talked about: Nagi, Greet, Anthrazods, Branchyura, Formosians.


Remember, in 40k lack of a mention does not mean they don't exist. I see this as simply the new races who make up the Tau Empire rather than as a list of all the races they contacted.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





For those of you who have read the new dex what do you think is the most interesting tidbit of new lore to you personally?
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 1hadhq wrote:
WD / design studio / vetock / background.
The first two pages of the codex are:

Spoiler:



a pic of Eldar vs Tau.




Why was this spoilered as it doesn't seem that big a deal? Do you mean artwork of Eldar vs. Tau or do you mean miniatures of Eldar vs. Tau? Don't suppose this picture is floating around anywhere if it is artwork?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/07 07:31:13


 
   
Made in hu
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 Shlazaor wrote:
For those of you who have read the new dex what do you think is the most interesting tidbit of new lore to you personally?


Shadowsun was pretty much mindraped by the Space Pope to hate Farsight. That was pretty neat!

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Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut







Shlazaor wrote:For those of you who have read the new dex what do you think is the most interesting tidbit of new lore to you personally?

Basically almost every part of the background is extended. GW makes almost explicit statements on several open questions, so that they are now neither "peace-loving hippies" nor "Space Nazis with a better PR":
1.) There is no "pheromones did it" situation anymore. The theory is mentioned but also stated that Inquisition found no evidence either way. Ethereals ending the Mont'au is described more realistically.
2.) The time paradox of Farsight and Shadowsun is resolved logically.
3.) It is now rather explicit how planets join the Empire. Not always peacefully. Material for heated discussions.
4.) New Xeno races are introduced to the background.
5.) Tau not using meatshields and honouring minimized casualties on their side is stressed several times.
6.) Basically no further advance in timeline or expansion, they are still "big fish in a small pond".
AtoMaki wrote:Shadowsun was pretty much mindraped by the Space Pope to hate Farsight. That was pretty neat!

Nonsense, they were bitter rivals even before Farsight defected.

Hive Fleet Ouroboros (my Tyranid blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286852.page
The Dusk-Wraiths of Szith Morcane (my Dark Eldar blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/364786.page
Kroothawk's Malifaux Blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/455759.page
If you want to understand the concept of the "Greater Good", read this article, and you never again call Tau commies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism 
   
Made in hu
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 Kroothawk wrote:

Nonsense, they were bitter rivals even before Farsight defected.


Actually, their rivalry never went too far. It was like "Farsight is inferior, Shadowsun is superior" and she got the "blast his statue apart" thing after the Space Pope Treatment. For example, their combined attack won the Democles Gulf Crusade for the Tau. It is a sad thing really, as Shadowsun is pretty much portrayed as a mere puppet of Aun'Va. What is actually pretty cool, because of the all-new "grim bright" feel the Tau has.


Oh and another favorite thing: the Tau way to assimilate civilizations. Like, it wouldn't work in any other sci-fi setting, but luckily for them, the Warhammer 40k universe is a perfect ground for it .

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/07 10:12:08


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Made in de
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






germany,bavaria

Iracundus wrote:
 1hadhq wrote:
WD / design studio / vetock / background.
The first two pages of the codex are:

Spoiler:



a pic of Eldar vs Tau.




Why was this spoilered as it doesn't seem that big a deal? Do you mean artwork of Eldar vs. Tau or do you mean miniatures of Eldar vs. Tau? Don't suppose this picture is floating around anywhere if it is artwork?


Yes artwork, like every 6th ed codex starts with. Just a hint I've looked at the real codex , since the post was made early on when many people won't have it themselves.
Plus, Tau razed a maiden world. Maybe a mistake as they chased some Eldarish-looking raiders but still not making friends that way.


I'd prefer to wait, but IMO an intersting find is the entry of Aun'Wei. The space pope before Aun'Va.

Target locked,ready to fire



In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.

H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It's strange that after reading the new fluff, the Tau come off as the most identifiable and grounded faction in the game. I relate to them more then humanity. They just seem like something that could really exist I suppose.

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Made in gb
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Nottinghamshire, UK

@MajorStoffer: Re the Japanese references: don't forget the Puretide AI is kept on Mount Kan'ji...

@Kroothawk: it is true that there is no 100% firm timeline progression in the Codex, however, I do like the way that, unlike other factions, there is at least a nod to their likely future. I'm specifically talking about page 30: within 50 Earth years the number of planets held by the Tau is predicted to double. That's some impressive growth. And when you consider that as of the current point in the timeline the Imperium still has much bigger things to worry about than the Tau...well, just think it's a shame that GW don't seem too fussed about taking us into the 42nd Millennium as the Tau would surely be a much bigger presence.

I particularly enjoyed the information on the non-military castes, especially the frequent references to the role the Earth Caste play in developing all these fancy new bits of kit like the Riptide. Stuff that happens off the battlefield isn't exactly common in Codices so I consider anything of that nature a bonus.

Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut







I have to read through the Codex again.
But ATM the only WFT Bloodtide moment for me was one small tidbit on earth caste:
Spoiler:
They accidentally create a super nove while trying to create an energy source. Then they experiment using that super novas as weapons to destroy planetary systems. Doesn't fit Tau mentality at all IMHO.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/08 00:34:05


Hive Fleet Ouroboros (my Tyranid blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286852.page
The Dusk-Wraiths of Szith Morcane (my Dark Eldar blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/364786.page
Kroothawk's Malifaux Blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/455759.page
If you want to understand the concept of the "Greater Good", read this article, and you never again call Tau commies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I also was shocked by the tidbit where a Riptide emerges completely unscathed after taking a volley of IG Deathstrike missiles. Nova shield or not, the fluff went overboard on that one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/08 01:05:49


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WA, USA

I may have missed it, but there wasn't a single wholesale slaughter of Sisters of Battle in the whole codex?! What?!

I like the assimilation lore, to be on topic, though.

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





No Demiurg? NGARGH. I was really kind of hoping the rumors of them becoming full-fledged Tau citizens were true.
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut







 curran12 wrote:
I may have missed it, but there wasn't a single wholesale slaughter of Sisters of Battle in the whole codex?! What?!

"No Eldar Avatar was harmed during the production of this Codex!"
Vetock actually had to say something about Tau background, no need to fill it with He-Man nonsense.

Hive Fleet Ouroboros (my Tyranid blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286852.page
The Dusk-Wraiths of Szith Morcane (my Dark Eldar blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/364786.page
Kroothawk's Malifaux Blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/455759.page
If you want to understand the concept of the "Greater Good", read this article, and you never again call Tau commies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism 
   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Nottinghamshire, UK

 Harriticus wrote:
I also was shocked by the tidbit where a Riptide emerges completely unscathed after taking a volley of IG Deathstrike missiles. Nova shield or not, the fluff went overboard on that one.


It's OTT, but I don't think it's too bad...remember that in the battle there were 20 Cadres with one Riptide in each. The way the fluff is written implies that when the missiles hit the Tau lines one Riptide was the only survivor. Now the very next paragraph is talking about Riptiudes plural, so obviously some were out of harm's way, but I think it's ambiguous as to whether any were destroyed by the missiles. So, pretty insane durability nevertheless, but they might have lost a few that day.

Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. 
   
Made in ca
Wing Commander






Deathstrikes, in the fluff, kind of are the "End of All Things," too bad they aren't that killy in the game. I'd like a one-shot nuke for my Guard please.

Therefore, I conclude, Valve should announce Half Life 2: Episode 3.
 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






The whole "Tau and Space Marine best buddies" thing was kind of explained. It is said that after the Damocles Crusade, out of all of the Imperial Factions, only the Space marines came to respect the Tau as honorable and worthy adversaries.

GW Apologist-in-Chief 
   
Made in ca
Wing Commander






Samurai_Eduh wrote:
The whole "Tau and Space Marine best buddies" thing was kind of explained. It is said that after the Damocles Crusade, out of all of the Imperial Factions, only the Space marines came to respect the Tau as honorable and worthy adversaries.


"I like fighting you" is not quite the same as "Together, we shall vanquish this blighted foe from the galaxy, and then go back to my place for beer and pretzels."

Therefore, I conclude, Valve should announce Half Life 2: Episode 3.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Samurai_Eduh wrote:
The whole "Tau and Space Marine best buddies" thing was kind of explained. It is said that after the Damocles Crusade, out of all of the Imperial Factions, only the Space marines came to respect the Tau as honorable and worthy adversaries.


Which is a very weak attempt on GW's part to explain it. Because respecting your adversary is not even close to "Battle Brothers" status. Remember, we're meant to expect that the Space Marines and Tau are closer then Space Wolves and Dark Angels.

I've long since resigned the Allies matrix to a gameplay-only mechanic. Lot of stuff goes down on the tabletop that doesn't in fluff, and Tau and Marines between as close as Guard/Marines is one of them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 02:36:25


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Made in rs
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Holy Terra

Well I have just aquired LE and I must say that I am impressed with the artwork of the book itself, it is epic ( love how GW decided to do all the pictures in color with every new 6 edition codex ).

As for the fluff I will post most notable things I read so far:

Spoiler:

-Tau diplomacy work for years or decades, and it usually goes with Ethereals offering huge reward to planetary rulers to persuade them to join the Tau. If they refuse Ethereals get more harsh and demanding and in the end they send Fire Cast to take you down.

-Tau skin can be dark blue or light blue depending on the planet's distance to the Star ( like white and black skinned Humans ). It also varies in castes themselves with Fire Caste being the darkest and Air Caste the palest.

-Earth Caste is the biggest one.

-Air Caste had wings before the Tau became spaceworthy race.

-There is mention of Adeptus Mechanicus expedition in M35 but there is no mention of Warp Storm at all. The closest thing to it is the mention of "strange lights" which can be anything .

-As Kroothawk said there is no mention of "pheromones" or mind control but there is hint about something interesting with the Etherials. The story goes like this: when Tau were on edge of annihilation because of their civil war "many strange lights were seeing in the sky" and all Tau expected that to be the end of their race. But instead, the mysterious Etherials "just pop up" in various camps and cities, guard never noticing them passed near them - they were just there. And in just one night they were able to set a deal and end hostility of a fight that was lasted for five seasons just liek that. I don't know abotu you but if Giovanni was reading this he would say:

But this is cool, it supports a lot of theory and helps in creating a new ones.

-It seems that Tau were naive from the very beginning, first sending colonists to build before they expected planet for dangerous predators. After they suffered casualties ( it's said "many" so I am not sure if this apply to heavy ) they called for the Fire Caste to hunt them all down. Later they adopted a strategy: send FIre Cast to exterminate all dangerous wild life and then colonize.

-New mentioned races are Thraxians, Greet ( Greece ), Nicassar. Anthrazods, Brachyura, Nagi, Poctroon, Formosians.

-Tau are constantly hostile to Hrud, Orks, Arachen, Reek.

-And this is the "dark side" of the Tau: if you refuse to negotiate with them they gave you ultimatums, if you refuse that they bomb the hell out of your industry military and jam most of your communications. If you still refuse they send Fire Cast to wage a war of annihilation.

-Tau are again naive, they tried many times to talk with the Orks when they discovered them and in the end they finally gave up. They encountered Orks after they colonized their first major planet ( Tau'n ) and Orks were all around them. The Ethereals declared that Grater Good would be better off without them so in Tau practise every time you see Ork shoot him ( I am looking at you alliance chart ). Or kreally loved to troll the Tau in the beginning with long escalated conflicts.

-Fire Caste warriors from Bork'an are outfitted with the latest advances in weapons, meaning that they are probably best equipped of all Fire Warriors in the Empire.

-I so lol'd at this: when Tau helped Kroot to defeat the Orks Kroot leader swore allegiance to the Tau and pledged his warriors to fight for the Greater Good and regular payment

-This is also interesting: Tau have a council to led them. Ranking officials of every Caste, overwatched by Ethereals who are pressing them to work and to contribute ( we need someone like them in our modern Governments )

-Tau developed AI somewhere after 1'st phase expansion.

-Tau Second Phase of Expansion ended when they encountered the Imperium.

-Au'tall is Tau Valhalla. Pension planet for honorable heroes of the Fire Cast.

-N'Dras is a planet that was abandoned for no reason, and only the Ethereals know why ( maybe Necrons? ).

-Ke'Lshan are less trustworthy to aliens of all the Tau.

-T'olku have large Ethereal Tempes. Tau own version of the Ecclesiarchy?

-Democles Crusade was mentioned, however it's goal was not the crush the Tau completely but rather to drive them out of Damocles custer, in which they succeed. Damocles Crusade forces were mentioned as 19 Regiments and 5 Chapters ( undermanned of course, likely a company from each or less than that ). Damocles Crusade ended when Tau reinforcements arrived and drive the Imperials back, it was not because of the Tyranids. Tau had the chance to destroy them but halted and staged a peace treaty on Ethereal orders.

-Tau were impressed by Warp Engines but failed to understand or start them. And captured Humans trolled them by saying that they "pray and chant to them to work"

-Imperium stance is "another alien race to be exterminated" but many feared of Tau because they remind them of Humans when they were in Age of Technology. Suffice it to say they are afraid of another Age of Strife happening in the galaxy, this time with Tau.

-Story behind Farsight is also expanded and strange, they encountered "mysterious enemy" while fighting orks on artifact world Arthas Moloch. This mysterious enemy killed all Ethereals and after that disappeared. After they were slain Farsight broke all contact and disappeared, later he was again rediscovered but he established his own colonies in Damocles Gulf. He is branded as a traitor to Greater Good. Whiel he is not hostile to the Tau he fortified his borders and destroyed every probe sent at him. But he occasionally helps his people when they need him. "Mysterious enemy" soul like either the Eldar or Imperial Assassins, it may be the Alpha Legion too.

-Tau faced Gorgon in the time of Second phase expansion, Gorgon is also noted as minor ( small ) fleet. The ending is also rewritten, the fleet that was sent during Democles Crusade only just arrived, and they helped Tau to defeat the Tyrandis. After the battle the Tau allowed Imperial Guard to retreat and even giving them honor for that.

-It seems that at the beginning of 42'nd millenium the Orks are threat to Tau just like Chaos is to the Imperium. The Great War of Confederation - When several Ork Wargh's invaded the Empire the Tau threw literally everything they had on them, only to result in stalemate in the end, a war waged over many planets. It was finally over when Shadowsun appeared and defeated the Orks.

- It seems that Tau has an AI holographic version of Puretuide to help them in the time of need and also to teach the ways of Puretide warfare to new generations of Tau commanders. Even going as far as putting few Puretide students in stasis and defrosting them when they needed them to lead the Fire Cast. Shadowsun is one of them.

-Tau Earth Caste during Third phase had new toy - stasis field on ships. Literally entire Tau Caste on the ship could travel through space for months or even years without aging a day.

-It seems that Tau trolled Imperium at Zeist, deliberately sacrificing that sector of space to concentrate on taking down the other areas.

-Tau blowing up stars is called sunbursts, initially it was experiment to harness the energy of the star gone wrong. They plan to use it as a weapon but concluded it can bring more waste them profit.

-Nagi are alien race with mind controlling ability, they serve as advisors of the Ethereal caste. Very interesting...

-Fire Caste have spartan method: those who have health problems or are simply too weak are never heard from again.

-Tau have 3 ways of fighting: Kanyon, Montka and Mobile Warfare ( Blitzkrieg ).

-Tau indeed regard lives of it's soldiers, even an army that has won if they sustained heavy casualties that could have been avoided they do not rejoice but are ashamed.

-Tau Empire is like socialist state - there is almost no personal ownership of any kind. Everything ( from house to clothes and cars and whatever else ) is regarded as property of the Empire.

-Each Tau are tech to be loyal in this order: Ethereal, Empire, Sept, Caste.

-There are also no families in Tau Empire as each Tau is raised by caste system, the closest thing you get to a family is ta'llisea which is basically a bond between two Tau to support each other.

-In Tau Empire there is no individual, everyone are part of a great collective - the Greater Good. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

-Interesting thing: Poctroon were the first race to join the Tau Empire. And after they joined the killer plague eradicated their entire race, Tau being immune to the plague terraform their planet to fit them and colonize it as Bork'an. Some interesting theories can be founded here...

-One more thing that goes in favor of Ethereal mind controlling/pheromone theory: when Vespid was integrated into Tau Empire nothing was able to be agreed except for crystal trade. Few days after Tau Ethereal "talked" with the Vespid leaders they became fanatical followers of the Greater Good.
We need these guys in the UN

-In M39 Eldar mistakenly destroyed an Eldar Maiden worlds. Since then relationship with Tau and Eldar have been stranded. This kills the "Eldar made Ethereals" theory for sure.

-NImbosa changed hands several times and remains a warzone. Seems that Nimbosa Campaign is still ongoing with no knowledge of who is controlling the planet. I don't like this because the Nimbosa Crusade never happened with this.

-In the end Tau only true enemy is the Imperium and Orks who are massing fro a large Wargh just outside their border, they have sent 8 fleets to conquest after taking over an Imperial Forgeworld.

-Shas O'Kais from Dawn of War Dark Crusade is mentioned as one of the newest promising Puretide students.

-This is how ordinary Fire Warrior can advance through ranks: he starts as line trooper ( shas'la ), after 4 years he undertakes Trial by Fire ( it warry from sept to sept ) and if he pass it he becomes Shas'Ui or battle worthy veteran. After another four years he can take a second trial and if he pass it he becomes Shas'Vre or true hero of the Fire Caste, if he survives another four years he can take another trial and if he survives it he becomes commander in training or Shas'El. After he excel in this he can become true commander or Shas'O.

-XV8 armor is the same strength as Adeptus Astartes power armor only lighter.

-Riptide is Tau answer after seeing Gargants and Titans. The ywere able to made it by making Nova Engine, basically a dark matter engine that have the same amount of power as small stars. But this is new technology and it comes with danger, every time Tau pilot use shield or weapons it is in danger of being killed by unstable Nova Reactor.

-One sniper drone team alone killed entire unit of Terminator by shooting them through their eye lenses. I just start respecting this guys.

-It seems that Kroot would even eat Tau corpses when nobody is looking - even if that is forbidden for them by Tau Etherials.

-Vespid story remains unchanged, in the beginning they were untrustworthy to Tau and after their leaders start wearing helmets given to them by Tau at the instruction of Ethereals the Vespid started to respect and ever bow before Ethereals. Mind control theory can be used here even if it's not mentioned it is implied.

-Tau are so tie to lower their casualties that even their AI has self-preserving programming.

-And I see that Tau find Imperium's distrust of AI "strange and "disappointing". They think of AI as one more addition to the Greater Good... I see that they never heard about Man of Iron war with Humanity. I see this as their greatest weakness, all we need is for Tau expedition to unlock some leftover Man of Iron factories or random Necron uploading his program into Tau AI and let the apocalypse begin.

-There is insight of someone from the Tau Empire helping Farsight by giving him information about new technologies. It's either that or Farsight was managed to infiltrate some spies into the Empire to feed him information on latest technology. It is also noted that Ethereals bare to question any individual who have some sympathy for the Farsight, and many are not seen again when they are questioned.

-It seems the reason why Shadowsun hate Farsight is because they were from the same generation and fight together before Ethereals froze her and because she have strict orders from Etherials to hunt down Farsight and bring him back to justice. I can see two more reasons from here for because her pain seems emotional it is possible that they were either lovers or brother and sister.

-Aun'Va is the oldest Tau alive beside Farsight, it is stated that he has lived more than even the long lived Ethereals have. It is also mentioned that when he ask for something and give orders he does it in such a way that others comply even iof they don't know why are they doing this. One more point for mind control/pheromone theory. Only oen Tau had ever refused his order - Farsight.

-They changed the Taros Campaign fluff, it was not Tigershark that killed Warhound - it was tank commander Longstrike. Basically Tigershark only managed to lower the shields of Titan and it was Longstrike who killed him from one Hammerhead shot in the head.

-Aun'Shi, the only Tau Ethereal who cut down hundreds of Orks with his blade. The only Tau I know beside Farsight who use close combat weapon. Because of that he is awesome in my book.


Overall it's a great codex and Tau fluff is excellent. They are not weak nor they are uber powerful but balanced as they should be and the most important thing: they are the closest thing to a good guy in the fluff. On the surface they are nice but beneath it there are some dark areas, anyway one more great codex from Vetock.

This message was edited 17 times. Last update was at 2013/04/09 13:53:31


The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!
 
   
Made in fi
Drone without a Controller




What I find awesome in the lore (and the game) is that the Ethereals actually join in combat. Like, what does that say about them? The Popes weren't leading the Crusades on the front lines, the lazy bastards, and politicians of today most likely have never experienced true live combat.

The Space Pope, on the other hand, can roll out his popemobile and join the fray! "Have a taste of my Greater Good, unbelievers!" He would shout and smack fools with his staff.

Now that's a useful figurehead.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 20:52:19


 
   
Made in gb
Wing Commander






Lumipon wrote:
The Space Pope, on the other hand, can roll out his popemobile and join the fray! "Have a taste of my Greater Good, unbelievers!" He would shout and smack fools with his staff.

Now that's a useful figurehead.


Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek) 
   
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok





One tidbit I found interesting was the part about Space Pope joining Shadowsun at the front, followed by lots and lots of footage shown back home of him taking part in important military operations. The way it's phrased, it kind of seems like it was faked for propaganda purposes. Reminds me of North Korea (Kim Jong Aun?).
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




An interesting little bit of trivia which I don't think others have spotted or commented:

In the Codex, the Tau phrase Lha s'rhen'na is given the meaning of a worthy or noble sacrifice and is given literally as "shattered jade".

This is actually a direct copy of a real life Chinese phrase (and hence Japanese since Japan borrowed it from China):

大丈夫寧可玉砕何能瓦全
Translated literally as "A man would rather be a shattered jade than be a complete roof tile" but the meaning of this is that it is better to die a noble death than to live in a state of dishonor.

Citation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banzai_charge
   
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[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

It's a little more sinister. Read the rest of that wiki article: the concept was used to encourage a kind of national mass suicide in the face of potential US invasion.

   
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Regular Dakkanaut





 Manchu wrote:
It's a little more sinister. Read the rest of that wiki article: the concept was used to encourage a kind of national mass suicide in the face of potential US invasion.


Yeah there is some great empirical evidence that the concept was horribly misused. This is what I love about the Tau. Their philosophy has so much room for interpretation good\bad. Do the Tau reflect the grimbright attributes or the grimdark attributes the most in actual practice. Fun stuff.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Manchu wrote:
It's a little more sinister. Read the rest of that wiki article: the concept was used to encourage a kind of national mass suicide in the face of potential US invasion.


There is nothing sinister itself about the phrase itself. It is a classical Chinese saying from dynastic China.

The phrase and concept is no more sinister than the Spartans dying at Thermopylae instead of surrendering, or Achilles choosing a short life of glory over a long life of being unknown, or any other of endless variations and examples in history and myth of people choosing to die for ideals and their honor.

It seems that at least one GW person has a little interest (or ability to research) in Asian history. I doubt anyone without a familiarity with Japanese or Chinese would have caught the specific reference.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/10 15:28:33


 
   
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Solahma






RVA

Mythologized stories are one thing; government propaganda is another. In the example to hand, the Japanese government encouraged the Japanese people to resist at all costs, to consider their own lives as nothing compared to the honor of the state. I am not a moral relativist and I see nothing laudatory about such inhumanity. Transposed onto a fictional alien race, I see it for what it is: as Shlazoar mentioned, another layer of ambiguity to keep fans guessing about whether the Tau worldview is good or bad.

   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Manchu wrote:
Mythologized stories are one thing; government propaganda is another. In the example to hand, the Japanese government encouraged the Japanese people to resist at all costs, to consider their own lives as nothing compared to the honor of the state. I am not a moral relativist and I see nothing laudatory about such inhumanity. Transposed onto a fictional alien race, I see it for what it is: as Shlazoar mentioned, another layer of ambiguity to keep fans guessing about whether the Tau worldview is good or bad.


You might as well criticize every single culture throughout history then, as well as the Imperium in 40K. Any culture which at any point upholds death before dishonor in any fashion then would be guilty, and virtually any culture that has had warriors or a military will have at some point had this. The concept is universal. If it is fine for the Imperium to use it, there are no grounds to critique the Tau for doing so, or any other faction for their variation.

dulce et decorum est pro patria mori anyone?

The Greeks did it, as did the Romans, and the British that lifted that phrase, and so on. Fighting for the Fatherland/Motherland? By that same sort of sacrifice and honor rationale, the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae should be condemned for being suicidal idiots that should have valued their own lives and surrendered to the Persians rather than dying in what was strategically a pointless defeat. Which is fine if that is the stance one takes, so long as it is universal. It would be hypocritical to condemn the Japanese while exalting the Spartans...or the Imperium.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/04/10 15:44:49


 
   
 
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