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I wanted to lay down my line of thinking where it comes to Farseer powers on the off chance that some of it may not be obvious to everyone. The point of this is to help people decide on which powers to take, whether to swap out and why. The last FAQ is part of what prompted some of this thinking.
First and foremost, the question is do you think you might want to swap for BYB powers. Fortune is the premier reason to keep our codex powers. If you rely on Harlequins, Rangers or Dire Avengers to do damage then Doom may be a good reason too, but most Eldar lists I make personally max out on S6 which only benefits from Doom against MCs. If you need Fortune for your list to survive, then you're alreaady partly done deciding. But how about other powers? Let me go through them.
Codex Powers
Spoiler:
Guide: Guide is still a functional power, but there is now absolutely no reason to take it by itself. You should take a different power for the same points and swap for Prescience if you need to re-roll misses. This gives some minor flexibility. Otherwise, guide is useful when using Eldrad with codex powers or with a Farseer using Spirit Stones to cast Fortune too.
Eldritch Storm: The purpose of this spell is two fold, do damage and spin vehicles. It does very little damage especially compared to Psychic Shriek so I don't really recommend it based on that. Spinning tanks to shoot side and rear armor is cool, but again I see this as something that comes with Eldrad. It's too situational to set out with this in mind.
Mind War: Shooting attack and model sniping. Psychic Shriek does more damage and disallows cover. The point here is sniping characters or special weapons. I don't think it is FAQed so that LoS! can't be done, though so it's utility in that role is somewhat diminished. Like Guide and Eldritch Storm, I don't recommend taking this unless you a) get it with Eldrad, b) need a cheap power that you might swap for BYB powers or C) need Fortune, but also want a way to kill models that can ID your Seer.
What is to be gained from this? Fortune. Also Fortune. And don't forget Fortune either. Of our powers it is the only one that has no replacement in Divination or Telepathy. If you spam S6 like I do, Misfortune is way better than Doom. Prescience is better than Guide. Psychic Shriek is better than Eldritch Storm and Mind War under most circumstances. Now that we cannot cast powers on units outside of the transport we are embarked upon, many powers further lose their usefulness. Doom is not good inside a Falcon, but Guide can help it shoot. Guide is much less useful in a Wave Serpent. You could guide some guys inside, get out and shoot or you can Guide the Shuriken Cannon on the bottom, but are these things worth it? Dire Avengers guided without Doom will see their damage output bottleneck at the wounding stage. Fire Dragons don't need Guide to get their job done.
There may be some sitiuational reasons that I am over-looking here. Mostly in lists based around Wraith units, I expect. But I think you would be hard-pressed to find a player who really needs any codex power outside Fortune. Now that powers can't be cast from transports many of their uses are negated. This means that in general Farseers are less useful in tranports while the ones on Jetbikes have more flexibility in how they can cast powers. Farseers on foot and on bikes may be good solutions for many people. Sometimes I need mine in a transport though and in my opinion that leaves me with the few options I outlined above.
For the record, I take Fortune on a Seer in a Serpent and either Fortune or Prescience on a Seer in a Falcon.
Edit: Thank you for pointing out the full extent of the FAQ. Not sure how I got that wrong. My opponents will be pleased.
Edit: Formatting.
On BYB Powers I like both the Divination and Telepathy disciplines. I don't roll when I have no use for at least the Primaris powers and that may affect my attitude toward the tables, but I also often roll powers that are very beneficial. I don't think any are terrible, but there are a few that I swap for the Primaris without much thought. Let me begin by looking at the tables power-by-power.
Divination:
Spoiler:
Primaris) Prescience: Now that Guide can't be cast from vehicles this is our replacement. I love the upgraded range from Guide, but obviously rerolling misses in combat is the real cake-taker here. My goal in using powers that grant rerolls is to reroll whatever bottlenecks my efficiency the most. Hits in combat is huge for something like a Seer Council that always wounds on 2s and doesn't need Doom. Best case for the Council is Prescience and Misfortune. This gives them the edge they need to not bounce off of units or get tarpitted by Fearless stuff. Obviously excellent for any shooting-heavy list as well. I plan around taking this with at least one power every time I roll the BYB powers.
1) Foreboding: I like how this power looks but have personally never rolled it up. I often run my Farseers behind an ADL with Guardians though. Obviously they're pitiful in CC and this power would go a long way combined with Prescience to relieve my need for a counter-assault unit. Still, somewhat situational. I'd look at my opponent's CC capabilities, maneuverability and where I plan to have my Farseer in order to make the decision whether or not to keep this one if I don't have the Primaris yet.
2) Forewarning: As another poster has already mentioned, this is a fantastic power. However I've dropped it for the Primaris in games where I knew my Farseer would be behind an ADL supporting units that already have 4+ cover. The best use I've gotten from it is casting it from a Jetbike onto Scatter Walkers. Since our skimmers now get jink saves War Walkers seem much more frail in comparison. I find this helps give them an edge they need. Other great candidates include Wraithlords, Wraithguard, Warp Spiders--really, anything valuable that is going to get hit with low AP fire. Keep in mind what you're trying to do with your Seer generally, but I'd personally probably keep this. Even for units with a 4+ cover already it may be good if your opponent is looking to slam you with a Whirlwind, etc.
3) Misfortune: Personally my favorite book power. Like the others it is situational too, but if you fight with enough cover or against enough MEQ/TEQ this can change the whole game. Against anything with a decent save this can really skew the odds in your favor. And as an added bonus it pisses your opponent off. I've seen an opponent make bad decisions directly after failing saves due to this =) Good stuff. Like Doom, everything in your army benefits from it. Just put it on something and throw dice at that unit. My personal favorites with this are Scatter Lasers from any source, Warp Spiders and Harlequins, oh and Dire Avengers too. Combines great with Prescience, Guide and Doom if you can get them in too.
4) Perfect Timing: Another of my personal favorites. I expect many to disagree with me since a lot of our best shooting comes from vehicles, but if you happen to field Dark Reapers then god help your MEQ enemies. Other solid combos are Guardians with Bright Lances/Prescience. Not usually so amazing and overpriced IMO, but when you ignore cover it becomes very effective. Another is Rangers as ignoring cover negates one of 2 main problems with them IMO (the other being a need for Doom). Good with Shadow Spectres too if you cast from a Jetbike.
5) Precognition: I have never kept this. Farseers are hideously bad in combat. If anyone has come up with any use for this power I'd love to hear about it. Seems like a power for GK Librarians or the like.
6) Scrier's Gaze: I love this power. I doubt I'd keep it if I have an Autarch on the table too, but maybe even then I would for the Outflank rerolls. Depends on my list. Again this is something that you'd have to decide based on your list, your Outflank options, your opponent and how you expect him to deploy.
Telepathy:
Spoiler:
Primaris) Psychic Shriek: I don't know if I can convey how obscenely powerful I consider this power to be. Obviously the range is prohibitive, but on a Jetbike a Seer can splatter units with this. I've killed whole units with this before I even rolled the rest of my unit's shooting. I like to have just one offensive power if possible. If I don't land something that incapacitates a unit like Hallucination does I'm never disappointed to fall back on this.
1) Dominate: I like this but it does suffer from the abundance of Fearlessness in the game. Still, I've used it to slow down assault units that need to move and run in order to get in range.
2) Mental Fortitude: There are times when you just don't need this. Marching with an Avatar, or with an Embolden Warlock are a few I can think of. Or if you have a Pheonix Lord with you providing Fearless to the unit. Still, might be good if you're rolling with say, Warp Spiders/Jetbikes who run away fast. Or with Guardians in the back lines when you don't have Embolden.
3) Puppet Master: Depends on the opponent's list more than your own. Does he have a single guy in units that you will reach that you can take advantage of? Would be pretty hilarious to steal someone's melta gun to blow up the Land Raider they just got out of. Crazy situational, but I'd give this a good think because it could be way too funny if it works well.
4) Terrify: Pretty neat. Never used it, but I'd consider it if I intend to assault. Especially against Fearless armies. Players who use Fearless stuff a lot get real used to it. Might be good just for getting under their skin or for taking advantage of positions where they are counting on Fearlessness. Just as a thought, perhaps you could use this to perform Sweeping Advances on Fearless units. That would be vile =D Can anyone confirm?
5) Invisibility: Incredible power. It suits anything that will get shot or assault a unit. Combines great with Prescience and Fortune. Good targets include Wraith units, any of our CC units and any vehicle (especially skimmers). A lot has been said about this power so I'll leave it at that. Would love to hear if anyone else has some other good combos in mind or has gotten great use from it.
6) Hallucination: There are times when I don't take this because I already have Invisibility and know for sure I want to cast it every turn. But this really is a good power and can shut down units or cause serious damage. "Ermmm?" is actually my favorite result on the chart because it guarantees the unit can't go far or hurt you. The main problems I have with this one are its unreliability, Fearlessness making results 1-2 ineffective and the warp charge cost. If you score enough other powers that you know you won't use it, just take the Primaris. Otherwise it might be nice to have on hand if a target of opportunity presents itself.
I expect some of the things I've said here have circulated the net since the release of 6th. What I'm writing it for is to provide some thinking behind what to keep or aim for. Many of the powers are situational and will not best suit your list. Others won't suit your opponent. Or the terrain. Or the deployment. Or the role your Farseer will be playing. Or his movement capabilities. There are a lot of factors to consider. Ideally, I suggest get something offensive and a defensive power, either Invisibility or Forewarning. If you don't roll the best powers then weigh the value of you get based on its ability to stall the opponent or stack your odds. As one poster mentioned this is all about a support roll, and the kind of support you need will be determined by what you've brought.
My lists tend toward weight of fire from fragile units so I prefer anything defensive and anything that improves shooting damage for as many units as possible. Misfortune, Forewarning, Perfect Timing, Psychic Shriek, Prescience and Invisibility are among my favorites.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/02/14 12:53:49
My 40k Blog: Rollin' 2d6 Deep Rumors, Links, Analysis, Modeling, Painting, Fiction
My solution was to take two Farseers. One has Fortune/Doom, the other has guide/mindwar/storm/doom to swap. I hope for misfortune and that 4++ one, and then take prescience. Run them with a Harlequin troupe and you reroll your charge, reroll to hit, reroll to wound, they reroll sucessful saves, and you reroll your 5++ if anything survives. It's funny to see the jaws drop when you explain the sheer volume of rerolling.
But I agree 100% with your analysis.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/14 05:12:04
azazel the cat wrote:The best way to play Warhammer 40k is with a pretty girl.
Both players should be using the least durable units possible, with the house rule that all players remove an article of clothing every time you lose a unit, and take a drink every time you kill one of your opponent's units.
I have no idea which army will be triumphant, but I can assure you that everyone wins.
Kain wrote:The best counter to an Eldar Farseer with malefic is smashing them upside the head with their codex opened to any page detailing the Eldar's relationship with Chaos.
I'll try to add in something later about how I use the BYB tables too. Most of the Div and Tele powers are useful in some way. I think given a big enough game I'd ideally like Eldrad using codex powers and another Seer with Stones and 4 powers using BYB stuff. Maybe on a bike. Psychic Shriek is hilariously good on a bike. And Misfortune has got to be the best offensive power in the game, especially when combined with the other reroll powers like you mentioned.
The problem is the randomness. It's hard to write something cohesive about using BYB powers when no one knows what they'll get before the game. I think going through each power, some good ways of using it and some desirable combos would be an all right start though.
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Q: The Farseer Psychic Powers rules state that they do not require the
Eldar Psyker to have line of sight to the target. Does this mean that they
can be used by an Eldar psyker embarked on a Transport? (p28)
A: No.
You can not use Fortune in a Transport on your own unit because of this. You have to wait till your out of the transport to use powers, and since you have to use some of them before you do anything else it makes putting a Farseer in a transport a poor idea.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/14 07:53:34
Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.
I should probably point out that you are playing Doom/Guide wrong from inside a transport. The FAQ did not change things so that it was impossible to target units outside of the transport (which would essentially just be changing them to require LOS), it COMPLETELY removes the ability of an Eldar psyker to use any of the Codex Eldar psychic powers from inside a vehicle. If you are inside a Serpent or Falcon you literally cannot even attempt to cast Fortune/Guide/Doom (and Mind War and Eldritch Storm for that matter, but they would fail instantly at the next step anyway).
As has always been the case, buff powers have the most effect on a game. I would love to be able to run some of the book powers, but I run Eldrad in a Foot based list (Avatar, 2-3 Lords, 3 Walkers) which means I have to have Fortune otherwise I lose my best assault unit (and quite possibly my Warlord if people try and torrent down Eldrads unit). Guide is almost as good as Prescience and Doom is still very very powerful in the heavily shooty style lists I run as long as it doesn't get denied but Mind War and Eldritch Storm are complete trash (unless they FAQed Mind War so it couldn't be LOS'd).
I actually think the superior HQ choice is now Eldrad and a lvl 4 Mastery Farseer with 4 rolls on the Divination table (the other option being Telepathy). Doing Fortune twice, with one target being a unit with Foreboding or Invisibility is a game winner.
Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.
Well, a Farseer is just a support character and it always will be. For this, I wouldn't go overboard with psychic powers. The codex powers are pretty good. If you field a cc oriented unit, take fortuned. If you basically field S6 guns like scatterlasers or shuricannon (or witch blades in cc), doom is not what you need. Guide is good if you take Warwalkers; its unnecessary for units with BS 4.
The BYB powers are too random. I'll leave them home.
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wuestenfux wrote: Well, a Farseer is just a support character and it always will be. For this, I wouldn't go overboard with psychic powers. The codex powers are pretty good. If you field a cc oriented unit, take fortuned. If you basically field S6 guns like scatterlasers or shuricannon (or witch blades in cc), doom is not what you need. Guide is good if you take Warwalkers; its unnecessary for units with BS 4.
The BYB powers are too random. I'll leave them home.
I agree with you that they are to random, but when you have 4 rolls, your going to get 4 powers. You look at all of the Divination powers and there are 3-4 really good ones in there and 1-2 true winners. The 2 powers I wouldn't want (at least for my list) is 5 and 6. The Winner is the one that gives 4+ Invuln saves, but the others are ones I can look at and be like, 'Yeah, I can see those being super useful at times".
But that is why I say Eldrad is king because he can use a power twice and 3 powers a turn. If the base Farseer could cast twice, I don't know if I would take the chance on the rolls, even if he couldn't buy up to lvl 4 Mastery to do so. But I don't care about him tossing 4 powers a turn if they are all different powers out of that book. Because your right, at that point, he is not worth it and way to expensive just to be tossing a 3rd Fortune and a 2nd Guide.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And I dare not waste Eldrad casting Fortune twice a turn or Guide twice a turn to be able to take a 50% shot at 4+ invuln, even if he could cast it twice.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/14 09:16:32
Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.
First of all thanks for the correction, guys. One of the many reasons I love DakkaDakka. Second, and I'll have to trust the site's filters to take care of this for me, what the feth were they thinking with that FAQ? Did Eldar really need that kick in the teeth? I mean, that doesn't break my lists in any way, but come on.
That makes putting Farseers in vehicles almost an entire waste. Aside from shooting powers they can't cast anything until they've been out of their transport a while. Pretty well puts an end to the Serpent Council. In full mech lists, Farseers are probably best off cheap with RoWard. Or if you don't need RoWard in your meta, an Autarch with Fusion Gun may be the better choice for the reserves bonus.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BlkTom
IMO the reason to take BYB powers with Eldrad is less the fact that he can cast the same power twice and more the fact that he's Mastery Level 3. He can cast a 1 charge power and a 2 charge power in the same turn. You've got terms mixed up. A Farseer with 4 powers gets 4 rolls on the charts, but is only Mastery Level 2 and can only use 2 warp charges a turn. Having a third charge is a huge advantage. Still, I think casting Fortune twice is invaluably better and I'd rather aim for powers I want with a vanilla Seer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/14 10:17:31
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Edited in some of how I think about the BYB powers too. I agree with a lot of the posters so far though. BYB powers are good, but probably best used in lists with dual Seers and in combination with Fortune and Doom.
My 40k Blog: Rollin' 2d6 Deep Rumors, Links, Analysis, Modeling, Painting, Fiction
3) Puppet Master: Depends on the opponent's list more than your own. Does he have a single guy in units that you will reach that you can take advantage of? Would be pretty hilarious to steal someone's melta gun to blow up the Land Raider they just got out of. Crazy situational, but I'd give this a good think because it could be way too funny if it works well.
Why not use the power on the Land Raider instead to deal some serious damage to the unit that just disembarked. I personally think this power is best used on vehicles or other ranged single model units.
3) Puppet Master: Depends on the opponent's list more than your own. Does he have a single guy in units that you will reach that you can take advantage of? Would be pretty hilarious to steal someone's melta gun to blow up the Land Raider they just got out of. Crazy situational, but I'd give this a good think because it could be way too funny if it works well.
Why not use the power on the Land Raider instead to deal some serious damage to the unit that just disembarked. I personally think this power is best used on vehicles or other ranged single model units.
That's an incredibly good point. Haven't used it on a vehicle. Could be pretty devastating depending on what you can control. I use it as a supplemental bonus when shooting at some guys with the unit my Farseer is attached to. If your Farseer isn't attached to a squad that can hurt that Land Raider their shooting will be wasted too. If they can hurt the guys that got out and those guys have a melta that might destroy the Land Raider it's a sweet two-for-one. Just more food for thought when deciding whether or not to keep that one.
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Interesting write up on the powers available to Farseers.
I have only played one game with the new powers and I used Eldrad (proxied with a farseer) and a Farseer. Eldrad was using codex powers and the Seer had Divination.
I think I rolled up Prescience and Forewarning for the seer (it was a while ago so not sure) and he did help me smash some Tyranids. Especially when you give a Wraithlord a 4+ invuln just before it goes into combat with a Trygon.
I am starting to think that my mech list is no longer usable as the Farseers can't cast powers from within the vehicle anymore (unnecessary nerf imo) so will prob run 2 seers (or 1 + eldrad) on foot with guardians, warp spiders, war walkers etc in support.
The only units in vehicles will be fire dragons or dire avengers. Dragons can get the job done without any help and avengers will hopefully have their target Doomed before they shoot it.
My Striking Scorpions and Banshees will either be left in the box or sold until the next codex maybe makes them useful again.
Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts
rohansoldier wrote: My Striking Scorpions and Banshees will either be left in the box or sold until the next codex maybe makes them useful again.
I feel the same way. With the changes to assaulting out of vehicles even if they haven't moved, they're just not effective right now.
The crappy thing is that I don't have a lot of points of Eldar, perhaps 2300-ish. A lot of those points are Wave Serpents and Fire Prisms, which just don't seem to be worth the points. I may start working on a Seer Council Jetbike unit and ally some Tau until we get a new codex. With Tau allies, they'll benefit from Prescience and other BRB powers, and they'll get the benefit of Doom as well.
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I do think mech lists are still usable, but how you approach it and what units you are limited to has to change in my opinion. First, I find IA11 necessary as it relieves some of our dependence on rerolling misses. Hornets, Wasps and the Flyers can operate more independently than War Walkers and Falcons. If the Farseer is going to be in a transport he should probably be kept cheap. Get RoWard and something like Mind War. Swap for Psychic Shriek and use him to supplement drive-by shooting. If you want to actually use our Farseer though I think you need to put him on a bike and run GJB troops, run a Wraithwall list or play a hybrid army. I like Eldrad in an ADL dropping Fortune/Guide on my Quad Gun, War Walkers and gun emplacement manning Fire Dragons.
undertow
With the changes to perils of the warp, I've not run my Jetbike Council. Mindstrike Missiles pretty much negate the whole unit now, so I don't play that list unless I'm just messing around and not playing against Storm Ravens. Technically the same goes for the Harlequin Shadowseer, but I've never heard anyone mention that. I've steered away from deathstars and hammer units. Recently my lists are built around drowning my opponents in a sea of lasers and shuriken. That list style works very well for me in my meta.
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Am I misreading the 4++ power? I thought it only gave the rerollable 4++ to the psyker not the whole unit. That would change my opinion of the byb power considerably.
rob626 wrote: Am I misreading the 4++ power? I thought it only gave the rerollable 4++ to the psyker not the whole unit. That would change my opinion of the byb power considerably.
If you are talking about the Forewarning power in the Divination Discipline you're wrong on both accounts. The power targets a friendly unit, that friendly unit then gaines a 4+ inv save until the power ends. To make it rerollable you still need another Farseer to cast Fortune on the unit.
I haven't made a jetseer council yet (got the models, not the time) and I'm thinking Invisibility, with jink = 2+ cover save and reduces opponants to ws1.
If I added another farseer on a jetbike and go for a fortune/doom combo it'd be really expensive...Does anybody think it would be worth it?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/15 12:45:57
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives.
I haven't made a jetseer council yet (got the models, not the time) and I'm thinking Invisibility, with jink = 2+ cover save and reduces opponants to ws1.
If I added another farseer on a jetbike and go for a fortune/doom combo it'd be really expensive...Does anybody think it would be worth it?
While at first it looks like a strong combo but you are at the whim of chance at the start of every game when you roll for your powers. With Eldrad (or a insane Farseer with 4 or 5 powers) you have a 4/6 or a 5/6 chance of getting Invisibilty, that means that every 3 to 5 games you wouldn't have the power that makes your Deathstar almost unkillable. Eldrad can't be put on a Jetbike so your Farseer on bike needs to have it. The cost of that unit is just insane for what it can do, I don't think it's gonna be worth it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/15 15:06:48
Worse, I think, than failing to get invis is that a Seer Council will still bounce off of 2+ saves and get tarpitted by Fearless units. Then in combat you're back to relying on 4++ rerolls to survive powerfists.
I like my council but wouldnt recommend it based on competitiveness. It's a powerful unit that can be used well, but is easily negated by a number of common lists and tactics. Play it because it's fun. Model it because the conversion potential is awesome. But I don't see it as an easy fix to playing our book in the challenging state it is in.
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dnanoodle wrote: Worse, I think, than failing to get invis is that a Seer Council will still bounce off of 2+ saves and get tarpitted by Fearless units. Then in combat you're back to relying on 4++ rerolls to survive powerfists.
I like my council but wouldnt recommend it based on competitiveness. It's a powerful unit that can be used well, but is easily negated by a number of common lists and tactics. Play it because it's fun. Model it because the conversion potential is awesome. But I don't see it as an easy fix to playing our book in the challenging state it is in.
But the powerfists will on be hitting on 5+ so you'd take less hits overall - ws1 isn't too bad a leveller. Think it also cancels things like counter attack.
Overall, I agree though. Some good points - thanks both.
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives.
dnanoodle wrote: Worse, I think, than failing to get invis is that a Seer Council will still bounce off of 2+ saves and get tarpitted by Fearless units. Then in combat you're back to relying on 4++ rerolls to survive powerfists.
I like my council but wouldnt recommend it based on competitiveness. It's a powerful unit that can be used well, but is easily negated by a number of common lists and tactics. Play it because it's fun. Model it because the conversion potential is awesome. But I don't see it as an easy fix to playing our book in the challenging state it is in.
But the powerfists will on be hitting on 5+ so you'd take less hits overall - ws1 isn't too bad a leveller. Think it also cancels things like counter attack.
Overall, I agree though. Some good points - thanks both.
I don't have my codex in front of me, but if you're running Eldrad on a Jetbike, he's toughness 5 right? So a powerfist may wound on a 2+, but it's not going to ID him, and he's got a rerollable 3++.
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Inquisitor Jex wrote: Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.
Peregrine wrote: So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
Ahh, that sucks. I vaguely remembered that you can get a Warlock squad for Eldrad (or am I wrong there too?), I assumed he could purchase any Farseer options he didn't already have.
I guess my Eldar are going to continue to spend their time on the shelf. I switched to Daemons about a year and a half ago and haven't really looked back.
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I haven't made a jetseer council yet (got the models, not the time) and I'm thinking Invisibility, with jink = 2+ cover save and reduces opponants to ws1.
If I added another farseer on a jetbike and go for a fortune/doom combo it'd be really expensive...Does anybody think it would be worth it?
While at first it looks like a strong combo but you are at the whim of chance at the start of every game when you roll for your powers. With Eldrad (or a insane Farseer with 4 or 5 powers) you have a 4/6 or a 5/6 chance of getting Invisibilty, that means that every 3 to 5 games you wouldn't have the power that makes your Deathstar almost unkillable. Eldrad can't be put on a Jetbike so your Farseer on bike needs to have it. The cost of that unit is just insane for what it can do, I don't think it's gonna be worth it.
You can't get five Divination/Telepathy powers though. Even Eldrad exchanges his five Eldar Farseer Powers for four rulebook powers. So 4/6 chance at the highest.
Orks, 
Eldar, 
Lamentors, 
Pre-Heresy EC, 
CSM EC, and 
IG. 
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
