Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am finally coming around to the idea that BA Assault troops are just underwhelming and I'm looking for a better option. I'm not seeing much anti-tank, and I never played 5th edition, but I'm thinking of trying the razorspam I heard so much about.

For the turret...Do people prefer las/plas still? I've found a TLAC to be the best gun in my army on Baals or a Raven, so I'm leaning towards those, or possibly a mix. Is the TLLC as much a waste as it looks like? I'm genuinely interested in learning from y'all's experiences on this one.

Also, I already have rhinos, but if anybody knows a site to pick up turrets cheap, I'd appreciate that info as well.

Puppetswar do a great range of turrets meant for razorbacks. The mk2 assault cannon one is particularly fine.

Las/plas is still considered great because it can be used both for numerous light vehicles and heavy infantry, two areas where basic Assault Marines struggle (they do just fine with standard infantry and can take melta for heavy vehicles, which are never that numerous).
That said - if you're going the spam route you'll have quite a few, so having one or two TLLC's won't hurt.

I'd avoid taking assault cannons or heavy bolters, since you can put these on Baals instead if you need them, which (obviously) work really well in a mech list.

Whoops sorry, thought your post said DA.

I rushed off to puppets war after reading that comment.

Then felt disappointed. - As far as I can tell, unless you're ordering LOADS of turrets, you're better off just getting the Redeemer upgrade kit from GW for Assault Cannons, or the Land Raider Terminus kit for the bolters / lascannons.

Ebay seems to be the same sort of thing unfortunately.

 tomjoad wrote:
I am finally coming around to the idea that BA Assault troops are just underwhelming and I'm looking for a better option. I'm not seeing much anti-tank, and I never played 5th edition, but I'm thinking of trying the razorspam I heard so much about.

For the turret...Do people prefer las/plas still? I've found a TLAC to be the best gun in my army on Baals or a Raven, so I'm leaning towards those, or possibly a mix. Is the TLLC as much a waste as it looks like? I'm genuinely interested in learning from y'all's experiences on this one.

Also, I already have rhinos, but if anybody knows a site to pick up turrets cheap, I'd appreciate that info as well.

I'm in the same boat with you as far as ASM go. I always run mine in razorbacks. They may be easy to blow up, but ASM alone arn't even a threat to anyone really. At least razorbacks pack a punch.

I run mine all las/plas. It allows me to threaten anything I want with it. It also takes advantage of the Fast rule it sports, being able to fire both at full BS after moving 12".

Twin linked heavy flamer is nice and cheap and can cause a lot of wounds. And makes cover save-based units poop their pants. Insert 5 man assault squad with a sarge with hand flamer and a dude with regular flamer. MMMmmmm... toasty.

Back this up by dropping fragnought on their head. I've crushed entire Eldar flanks with this set up, since the tank can flame a different unit than the ASM guys.

I've been on board with the Fragioso for a while and I love that guy. I hadn't considered pairing him with a flamer razorback...I like the sound of that.

As far as las/plas taking advantage of the fast rule, though, I don't see how that's stronger than TLAC. Assault cannon always gets more shots and it's anti-tank abilities might be a hair worse, and it doesn't get that one 48" shot, but I think I'd prefer the TLLC if I wanted those things. If the real advantage of las/plas was to dodge weapon destroyed results, and those are no longer an issue really, I think I'll avoid that load out.

I actually really dislike the TLAC. Las/plas has way more killing power with 2 STR 7 shots and 1 STR 9 shot than 4 STR 6 shots. You can't count on rending. And Las/plas razors butcher teqs. They really make lists pay for not bringing enough ranged anti tank.

I've pretty much taken the AC out of my lists since the rending ruling on vehicles. It's off my stormraven, and I've switch my shooty terminators to heavy flamers. Ignores cover is super hot in 6th.

Might be a minor point but if I am correct a weapon destroyed still leaves you a viable option with the plas LC vs only a TL weapon

I think the point they're making is, Weapon Destroyed is now such an unlikely result, that if you do end up getting it, chances are the tank is about to be wrecked due to hull points loss anyway.

That's fine, I just don't like the damage output of of AC vs vehicles. I'm also not a huge fan of the range.

But the plasma gun's range is no better, so all you're really getting is a lascannon shot unless you're close enough for the assault cannon to fire and if the plasma gun is close enough to fire twice, that tank is dead.

I suppose I'll just mix them up and try them out. My experience with Baals has been so positive, though, that I have a hard time questioning the TLACs place.

Also plasma weapons can now glance your vehicles when they get hot making them even more fragile :(

Usually I only need the plasma gun to fire once. And it's twin linked, so I reroll misses. A 1:36 chance on each shot to get hot! is the least of my worries.

It's the two or three lascannnon shots you get off before it dies. My razorbacks get lost in the shuffle all the time.

The things that the AC is good against, I have lots of ways to kill those things. But sometimes you just need a lascannon. I consider the TL lascannon razorback much better than the TL AC one as well.

Martel732 wrote:
A 1:36 chance on each shot to get hot! is the least of my worries.

No. The correct probability is 1/18: a 1/3 chance of missing the first shot and using the re-roll, then a 1/6 chance of a 1 on the re-roll. Then once you get hot you have a 1/2 chance of losing a HP, for a total of 1/36 to lose a HP, not 1/36 to get hot.

Of course it's such a low probability that it doesn't matter. Even if you're shooting within 12" every turn your chances of taking any meaningful damage are pretty low, and the extra firepower more than offsets the risk.

Its a fair point. I wasn't thinking of the twin linkednessnessness.

There's all kinds of subtle advantages that add up for the las/plas. Like DE lists with the range reducing fields. 24" weapons cry, but 48" don't give a crap.

Twin-plasmas and lascannon are treated as two separate weapons, right? So vanilla razors can fire only one of them with full BS if they move, right?

Yes, las/plas is not that good for vanilla razors. For them, I'd use one of the single weapon turrets, likely the lascannon or the AC. Although as I said, I'm really souring on ACs. Maybe my local meta is just weird, but I always find myself wishing for more lascannon shots.

Plasma are AP 2 to +1 on the damage if you pen and Lascannon ia AP 1 so +2 if you pen. Just something to think about.

Nope, Lacannons are AP 2. The same as plasma.

Meltas are AP 1.